[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[JamieW89]

How many times, limited activation will put you in that position, and in that scenario, that Gemnstone is actually a Bayou or Badlands, non blue, so cantripping is out of the equation, the line of play will completely change based on the fact that is your currently only land in play.

I'm not defending Gemnstone Mine , I just want to be able to understand what makes it so awful :)

Also, what would be a real 15 SB card in this new (old) Meta ?

Maybe something like this:
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Krosan Grip
2 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Flusterstorm
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Ad Nauseam / Empty the Warrens (depending on MD)

You have 3 Decays, Top, Grip and possibly Swarm (+ AdN/EtW) for Miracles. Needle is an alternative to Top if you don't play MD Tops.
You have up to 7 removal slots to swap out for discard with Chain, Decay and Massacre. Decays are mainly for Chalice/CB, Massacres for UWR, Deathblade etc. and Chain for random hate.
Swarm + Flusterstorm help in the SnT/Griselbrand matchups. If they play Leyline you also board 1-2 Chains. Flusterstorm also fights Storm and discard decks.
Carpet is one of the better SB cards versus RUG Delver if it comes back, and 2 might be good if it does. It's also fine versus UWR Patriot.

[Ghiwo]

hi everyone guys!

I'm back with a couple of questions and ideas

First of all, we are back at the september metagame, with Miracles (as usual), Team America, Deathblade, Sneak & Show. I think I will drop the 2 carpet of flowers from my board for sure, as they was there to fight UR delver, but they didn't convince me completely. I am now thinking about some cards to add in their place, maybe some krosan grip or city of solitude (I already play a 1-of of both), Flusterstorm didn't convince me, just like Cabal Therapy, if I understood well. I also thought about some Extirpates, however not more than 2, as they are useful in the mirror, vs. Miracles and vs. Reanimator. I don't want to board 5/6 cards against Reanimator.. The challenge will be the one I had when preparing for Ovino, in September, to find something useful for this meta, especially if it fights team america. There are so many options, but no one makes me say "I definitely want this one!".

A question came to my mind when goldfishing in a study-break, yesterday. When you open a starting hand with 1/2 lands (I had a fetch and a tropical), a ponder, a sensei's diving top, and other stuff, what you lead with? Ponder or Top? And why, so I can understand and learn that point :) I usually start with top, especially if I have a volcanic or a tropical island, to make them think I'm on Miracles or some sort of Rug Landstill. Also because I think that in the next turns I will need that 1 mana to play cantrips at sorcery speed that have an immediate impact, and I can set the top on their eot if I have a spare mana.

The last point is a card that came to my mind when playing the Miracles match-up: I noticed that, under balance-top when I fetch and have 3 mana, good players will activate top to find a vendilion, or another 3 drop to put it on top, thinking about a Krosan Grip is coming. That caught me off guard the first times, but I didn't have any Grip, I had city of solitude . They didn't even think about the city but they thinking about grip caught it. So I thought about Teferi, mage of zhalfir. Is him already tested in Ant? We can play it on their eot, and they have just Fow to deal with it. He will protect our turn when we can go off. Or, if we aren't ready we can discard their plows and start beating with it. Maybe 5 mana is too much, I don't know! I will give him a try!

[sawatarix]

+1 Roberto

Trust us, Gemstone Mine is too bad.
We can't fetch it when we need green for example and it simply sucks because of it's limited availability.

Mine was a thing in 5 colour Tes but these days are gone

[Lemnear]

Mine was/is fine if you don't plan to ever go beyond turn 3 with your 3+ Colored deck (whatever it is). If you plan to make your third or forth landdrop (especially postboard), Gemstone is not fitting.

@Ponder/SDT/Fetch/Dual:

I would play SDT against unknown opponents, upkeep spin, cherrypick a card, fetch and Ponder to see the maximum of cards in the scenario.

[Marcelo65]

Gemstone is not fitting.

Is it possible to steal techs from other decks? If yes, me would suggest Tarnished Citadel because Dredge plays it and it doesn't have counter.
15 lands

2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
8 Fetch
2 Tarnished Citadel

[Bryant Cook]

Is it possible to steal techs from other decks? If yes, me would suggest Tarnished Citadel because Dredge plays it and it doesn't have counter.
15 lands

2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
8 Fetch
2 Tarnished Citadel

I agree with this guy, Tarnished Citadel is way better than City of Brass or Mana Confluence.

[Togores]

Now with wasteland uwr and rug with wastelabd coming back is a good card.


Also I know using slots in sb for lands sucks. i never understand the americans plsying 2 islands and a trop sb.
But I have played blue control of vintage last month 5 lands im the sb. And worked good. XD

[Lemnear]

I agree with this guy, Tarnished Citadel is way better than City of Brass or Mana Confluence.

[Firefight]

+1 Roberto

Trust us, Gemstone Mine is too bad.
We can't fetch it when we need green for example and it simply sucks because of it's limited availability.

Mine was a thing in 5 colour Tes but these days are gone

Hello Sawatarix,

Basically the best configuration for this new old meta would be:

4 Polluted delta
3 Misty Rain forest
1 Verdant Catacomb
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

??? Thinking about having at least 7 green cards in sideboard : 3 Abrupt decays, 2 Xantid and 2 Carpet ?

[wonderPreaux]

Seeing as how theres a lot of discussion regarding side-boarded lands (and some weird stereotype about Americans regarding that???) I decided I would throw in my 2 cents about the topic as I've played the sideboarded lands a few times (and have spent my whole life being an American).

I think the principle goal of sideboarding is to have a 75 that can produce an effective 60 for any postboard game. An extension of that goal is that you likely want a 60 does a generally good job against all matchups game 1, since Storm gets to ignore a lot of the opponent's cards anyway, you can just take a middling approach to all your deck proportions and then adjust as needed for preboard games. Thus, to justify sideboarded lands, you just have to consider when you would be adjusting to accommodate a demand for lands.

Heres a great example of sideboard lands in action, and it's not even storm:

Flores Blue

4 Jushi Apprentice
3 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Keiga the Tide Star

4 Boomerang
3 Disrupting Shoal
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Hinder
2 Rewind
4 Threads of Disloyalty

1 Minamo School at Water’s Edge
1 Oboro Palace in the Clouds
2 Dimir Aqueduct
4 Quicksand
4 Watery Grave
1 Miren the Moaning Well
1 Mikokoro Center of the Sea
1 Shizo Death’s Storehouse
10 Island

Sideboard
4 Drift of Phantasm
4 Execute
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Dimir Aqueduct
2 Rewind

Note how Karoo lands provide even deeper mana development and pseudo card advantage... assuming you're playing slow as balls. However, tap-out blue IS slow-as-balls, and the utility of sideboard lands becomes evident the slower the matchup. One of my enduring memories of watching, iirc, the modern portion of 2013 worlds was a UWR mirror where the first 10 turns was "land, go" for both players.

How does this translate to Storm? Well, honestly, sometimes you've gotta slow the game down. If I'm locked under Counterbalance and 2 FoW, I have a lot to put together to break out of that, and I'd rather hit land drops to blank counters like Spell Pierce as opposed to discarding for hand size while I wait for some nut-7 to form. In a game that could drag to 10+ turns, I'd rather have lands as opposed to Petals or w/e, even if its a seemingly innocuous upgrade. The last time I sb'd lands, I ran 2 G sources SB and 14 lands md, because you have to race Miracles g1 and race combo often, and then in stoneblade/miracles, you downshift with sb lands and decay/massacre.

(regarding americans and sb lands, i can only guess that this stereotype came about because, historically, america's plan for addressing poor metagame developments has been to add more land. because america has more inevitability than most other countries, it makes sense for us to play the control role and load up on land. you could likely extend this to some of the fanatics regarding immigration control, as they merely want to keep the sb lands from creeping into the main and earning america a game loss)

[Togores]

I think we were just joking (at least I was) its just vurious that in a lot of decklist of americans events players sb lands while european dont do this.
Just a thing to note. No weird stuff.
Its because europeans want a may be slower deck but better sideboard while americans want a faster deck while worser sideboard. Also to note that americans usualy play 3 preordian or preordain and grim while europeans prefer a may be slower aproach like sensei (wich is also better with more lands md).

[wonderPreaux]

I think we were just joking (at least I was) its just vurious that in a lot of decklist of americans events players sb lands while european dont do this.
Just a thing to note. No weird stuff.
Its because europeans want a may be slower deck but better sideboard while americans want a faster deck while worser sideboard. Also to note that americans usualy play 3 preordian or preordain and grim while europeans prefer a may be slower aproach like sensei (wich is also better with more lands md).

I was joking too, at least as far as the non-strategic part of the post. My point is I don't think a land is a bad sidedeck slot, so saying its a "worse" sideboard is kinda dismissive.

[Sloshthedark]

I think I will drop the 2 carpet of flowers from my board for sure, as they was there to fight UR delver,

I also thought about some Extirpates, however not more than 2

A question came to my mind when goldfishing in a study-break, yesterday. When you open a starting hand with 1/2 lands (I had a fetch and a tropical), a ponder, a sensei's diving top, and other stuff, what you lead with? Ponder or Top?

thinking about a Krosan Grip is coming

1, doesn't matter now but why would you do that, UR doesnt attack your manabase and doesn't use SP
2, I always liked the card but could not fit more than 1 recently, too many card to bring vs Miracles... I also might go up to 2 now getting rid of my lonely CoV, dunno yet
3, I'd mimic Lemnear
4, never happened to me, Grip is so marginal in legacy and even more in Ant, but I try to play around 3CC

+1 Roberto

Trust us, Gemstone Mine is too bad.
We can't fetch it when we need green for example and it simply sucks because of it's limited availability.

Mine was a thing in 5 colour Tes but these days are gone

+1

Also I know using slots in sb for lands sucks. i never understand the americans plsying 2 islands and a trop sb.
But I have played blue control of vintage last month 5 lands im the sb. And worked good. XD

I used to play 2 G now 1 G in the board, definitely not a wasted slot, conscious decision that I prefer 9th fetch to a nonbasic Island, useful vs StifleWaste decks and Miracles as a 16th land too

[Royce Walter]

There are two very good reasons to sideboard lands:
1) There are a lot of powerful lands in legacy that you would want to sideboard, but never want to draw game 1. Karakas is the best example of this, but there are certainly others in different circumstances.
2) Game 1 with a combo deck is designed to present the most focused, linear version of the strategy. Sideboarding dilutes the opponents game plan, forcing them to slow their game plan down by having answers, and in return, combo decks require answers to their answers. Games go longer, and having more lands better equips you to play a longer game.

That said, right now I don't see a very good reason to sideboard additional lands, but if I had a 14 card sideboard I'd love another green land in the board.

[Lemnear]

There are two very good reasons to sideboard lands:
1) There are a lot of powerful lands in legacy that you would want to sideboard, but never want to draw game 1. Karakas is the best example of this, but there are certainly others in different circumstances.
2) Game 1 with a combo deck is designed to present the most focused, linear version of the strategy. Sideboarding dilutes the opponents game plan, forcing them to slow their game plan down by having answers, and in return, combo decks require answers to their answers. Games go longer, and having more lands better equips you to play a longer game.

That said, right now I don't see a very good reason to sideboard additional lands, but if I had a 14 card sideboard I'd love another green land in the board.

I can see S&T variants with SB Boseiju to battle through counters or Counterbalance as well as SB lands being used to combat mana denial like Daze or Wasteland if your deck is soft to that. I guess it depends how you look at those SB slots. If you think beyond "manasources" and see them as tools to combat Resistors (Thalia, Thorn), Taxing counters or Landdestruction, those may be valid SB slots

[Chaam]

I can see S&T variants with SB Boseiju to battle through counters or Counterbalance as well as SB lands being used to combat mana denial like Daze or Wasteland if your deck is soft to that. I guess it depends how you look at those SB slots. If you think beyond "manasources" and see them as tools to combat Resistors (Thalia, Thorn), Taxing counters or Landdestruction, those may be valid SB slots

It's the same concept that is used in vintage. Legacy storm variants always have 2 to 3 basic lands in the sb for the stax matchups.

[Lemnear]

It's the same concept that is used in vintage. Legacy storm variants always have 2 to 3 basic lands in the sb for the stax matchups.

By the time I played Vintage TPS (4 Trinishpheres were still legal), I played Wastelands in the SB to harass Workshops and lock them under their own Spheres, while they also delivered mana to break out from the Spheres with a Rebuild. Was also nice to slow down Dredge.

[Troll Slayer]

Here's a little primer for ANT for the uninitiated!

http://www.moxboardinghouse.com/medi...-legacy-storm/

[sawatarix]

Nice video, an ideal guide for people who are curious about the storm mechanics.

If i had more time i could imagine to record some of my games to share them with you.
There need to be more discussion material about in game decisions because most storm player start to struggle when there is any kind of disruption on the other side of the table.
I believe that everybody is able to execute a past in flames loop or an ad nauseam kill easily but the games were your opponent is able to defend him/herself are actually way more interesting and fun to play.
There are basically 2 questions:
- Can i go off now or do i have to search for x ? What exactly i am looking for?
- I have all the tools now but how do i sequence my spells to play around daze/spell pierce/flusterstorm/vendillion clique/surgical extraction/...?


By the way, I'm going to join a big event this weekend in Tübingen,germany.
There are alreay a bunch of dual lands in the price pool so i hope to do well this time.
Wish me luck.
(The comeback of Team America and Jund caused me to play a double Ad Nauseam List again with sb swap to grinding station against uwr delver and canadian).Additionally i won't have that much sleep the night before, i have it in my gut feeling.
It's still saturday night...
Anyway, wish me luck ;)

[bigbobbobber]

Hey everyone, long time lurker of this thread and first post here. Right now I am a broke student and can't afford a Grim Tutor at the moment, and in place I've been using Death Wish. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts/experiences with it so far. In all the games that I have cast it, the life loss has not mattered. As long as I have one left and cast Tendrils for 20 or more, it's fine. One thing that has been really nice is being able to use the sideboard similar to TES and grab Empty, PiF, Tendrils, or even Chain of Vapor if I'm in a pinch. I don't think this idea is original, but I wanted to share with everyone my thoughts on it. What does everyone here think about it?