Making a public complaint on the Reserved list

[BVB09]

Hi,
First of all, I'm sorry if this post doesn't belong to this subforum, I wasn't sure where to post it.

I was wondering if It would be interesting to make a public complaint, like collecting signatures, a Trending topic hashtag on twitter, etc... about the Reserved List.
As the attendance to tournaments all over the worlds shows, with the lastest example of the GP, the Legacy community is huge, and we're becoming more and more and creating a really interesting format.
I know WotC has said they won't reprint cards in the Reserved List. But I can't be the only who thinks if they had a good reason, they would. It's known that they like the lists even less than we do. Only card collector like it, and even though I have a big collection I would love to see it gone.

I'm convinced that by doing something like this we can catch the attention of WotC at least, and make they think aboout this.
Come on, we are thousands and thousands of players, a situation like this, where the company loses money because of one politic and has the huge mayority of their players against it, can't prevail in the future. It's completely ridiculous.

I would love to hear your thoughts. :)

[JanoschEausH]

I don't think they care as long as it's not inherently profitable.

What i mean is:

1. Buying booster packs is the worst thing anyone can do (from a financial point of view) in each and every format.
2. You will always be better off, buying single cards for your deck.
3. Sadly, Wizards business modell is selling booster packs and not selling single cards.

Therefore: As long as they won't change their business modell, Legacy players are not customers but rather a nuisance in their eyes.

And even if they removed the reserved list. What would happen? They won't be able to print most of the cards on that list in regular expansions anyways due to the power level of Standard. They could create non-standard-legal products featuring cards from the reserved list. The problem with this is, that they wouldn't be able to financially profit from this product over a long time. It's like a cure for cancer which has to be taken once to prevent getting cancer for the rest of one's life. No one would produce this shit, because having alot people take cancer medicals over and over again is way more profitable. Coming back to Legacy: It would be a one-time thing. At the same time they would be destroying the capital of almost every single-cards-shop there is and devaluate collections all over the planet.

[kingsey]

Just save your $ and buy the cards you want.

[Griselpuff]

This was an interesting proposal:

http://accordingtowhim.blogspot.com/...-reserved.html

[PirateKing]

As has been said before, removed from the Reserve List does not move them any closer towards reprinting anything. Lots of cards aren't on the reserved list. Wake me up when they reprint Force of Will

[Tormod]

I think you need to approach an audience that doesn't have Legacy cards that wants them.

Most Legacy guys already know the deal and have adapted for the existing market.

If you get something going, I'll sign

[Malchar]

Speaking as someone who traded a bunch of stuff for Phyrexian Dreadnoughts right before they announced that they would print a judge foil version, I actually appreciate the reserved list.

[Mr.C]

inb4 lock.

Speaking as someone with a five-figure collection, fuck it, reprint everything. They won't until it makes financial sense, though, so don't get your hopes up.

[apple713]

inb4 lock.

Speaking as someone with a five-figure collection, fuck it, reprint everything. They won't until it makes financial sense, though, so don't get your hopes up.

if they simply just promoted legacy and held more than 2 GP's / PT's a year for it it would make a lot of financial sense. I think if they held a legacy masters prices would probably be fine. The packs would have to be outrageously expensive though.

[prateta]

I'd truly appreciate this. Something like Modern Masters for Legacy, yeah. Because, think about it. You want to play legacy (more than one deck, maybe? Have more fun?). You have to buy lands, which are basically the essential stuff in legacy. You can't reach competitive play w/o proper land base, which is often the most expensive part of the deck.

Why should I pay the biggest amount money for freaking footsoldiers? Lands are the basic stuff, it shouldn't be the most expensive part of the deck. It makes no sense. I'd love to see some old lands reprinted. Let away dual lands, at least Wastelands and lands like Karakas, Rishadan Port, City of Traitors etc...

The deal is, Wizards don't really want to support legacy players, because as has been said before, we are very little profit for them. That's why they invented Modern and why they're supporting it so much. In my town I've allready noticed many long-time legacy players have moved to Modern. Simply because they can play more decks for less money, there is more support from Wizards etc.

I'm not sure what would need to happen for Wizards to start supporting legacy. In my opinion, they don't realise that there are thousands of legacy players, which (if the marketing is good) can make them even more money than Modern. Because, let's face it. Rich people (or people who can save money; those who put a lot of money into MtG) play legacy. The moment they realise this, the shit is gonna happen.

[Barook]

I'd truly appreciate this. Something like Modern Masters for Legacy, yeah. Because, think about it. You want to play legacy (more than one deck, maybe? Have more fun?). You have to buy lands, which are basically the essential stuff in legacy. You can't reach competitive play w/o proper land base, which is often the most expensive part of the deck.

Why should I pay the biggest amount money for freaking footsoldiers? Lands are the basic stuff, it shouldn't be the most expensive part of the deck. It makes no sense. I'd love to see some old lands reprinted. Let away dual lands, at least Wastelands and lands like Karakas, Rishadan Port, City of Traitors etc...

The deal is, Wizards don't really want to support legacy players, because as has been said before, we are very little profit for them. That's why they invented Modern and why they're supporting it so much. In my town I've allready noticed many long-time legacy players have moved to Modern. Simply because they can play more decks for less money, there is more support from Wizards etc.

I'm not sure what would need to happen for Wizards to start supporting legacy. In my opinion, they don't realise that there are thousands of legacy players, which (if the marketing is good) can make them even more money than Modern. Because, let's face it. Rich people (or people who can save money; those who put a lot of money into MtG) play legacy. The moment they realise this, the shit is gonna happen.

But they already make money from us in the most exploitable way possible - see: Commander sets, especially 2013 with TNN.

One deck with chase cards (TNN and Baleful Strix) and to get it, the retailer has to order the entire batch of 5 Commander decks.

And the cost argument is pretty bad since Modern also got extremely expensive, especially decks that share staples with Legacy. See: Jund.

[thecrav]

inb4 lock.

Speaking as someone with a five-figure collection, fuck it, reprint everything.

Seconded

[apple713]

But they already make money from us in the most exploitable way possible - see: Commander sets, especially 2013 with TNN.

One deck with chase cards (TNN and Baleful Strix) and to get it, the retailer has to order the entire batch of 5 Commander decks.

And the cost argument is pretty bad since Modern also got extremely expensive, especially decks that share staples with Legacy. See: Jund.

legacy players don't buy commander decks and keep them. casual players buy commander decks and legacy players trade for them. I bought 2 mind seize decks and sold the TNN's just cause i wanted the rest of the pack for free. I think TNN is trash because I play combo so its a non issue for me.

[socialite]

[prateta]

And the cost argument is pretty bad since Modern also got extremely expensive, especially decks that share staples with Legacy. See: Jund.

Please compare modern mana base (in general) with legacy. There is much more logic in modern, since the mana base is almost free compared to legacy.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Please compare modern mana base (in general) with legacy. There is much more logic in modern, since the mana base is almost free compared to legacy.

Tundra = Hallowed Fountain
Tropical Island = Breeding Pool
Badlands = Blood Crypt
Scrubland = Godless Shrine
Volcanic Island = Steam Vents
Underground Sea = Watery Grave
Savannah = Temple Garden
Taiga = Stomping Ground
Plateau = Sacred Foundry
Bayou = Overgrown Tomb

[prateta]

Yes. New duals are many times cheaper. They're ok for modern as there is nothing else. They are shit for legacy.

Sent from my Lenovo S920_ROW using Tapatalk

[BVB09]

This was an interesting proposal:

http://accordingtowhim.blogspot.com/...-reserved.html

Yes, that's a very very good idea from my point of view (however a decade may be too long).
But I never had heard of it, italso had 0 comments. That's the problem, we haven't had a voice powerfull enough to reach WotC.
That's why I think we could do something big that caught their attention...

I don't think they care as long as it's not inherently profitable.

What i mean is:

1. Buying booster packs is the worst thing anyone can do (from a financial point of view) in each and every format.
2. You will always be better off, buying single cards for your deck.
3. Sadly, Wizards business modell is selling booster packs and not selling single cards.

Therefore: As long as they won't change their business modell, Legacy players are not customers but rather a nuisance in their eyes.

And even if they removed the reserved list. What would happen? They won't be able to print most of the cards on that list in regular expansions anyways due to the power level of Standard. They could create non-standard-legal products featuring cards from the reserved list. The problem with this is, that they wouldn't be able to financially profit from this product over a long time. It's like a cure for cancer which has to be taken once to prevent getting cancer for the rest of one's life. No one would produce this shit, because having alot people take cancer medicals over and over again is way more profitable. Coming back to Legacy: It would be a one-time thing. At the same time they would be destroying the capital of almost every single-cards-shop there is and devaluate collections all over the planet.

They'll know how to make money out of it. They have a marketing or development department or whatever to do so. Printing a cards costs 0.02 to them and there's people happy to pay $140 for an Underground Sea. The market obviously exists.
A limited print edition like Modern Masters could be the answer. But even "Legacy preconstructed decks" featuring one dual or 2 fecthlands, 5 per year for example, could keep them getting more throught years.
Also they could increase the number of GPs they make every year. I'm sure they'll make a lot of money from that. They probably like this list even less than we do.

As has been said before, removed from the Reserve List does not move them any closer towards reprinting anything. Lots of cards aren't on the reserved list. Wake me up when they reprint Force of Will

I know, but obviously by doing this it's clear that we want the cards to be actually reprinted.

Speaking as someone who traded a bunch of stuff for Phyrexian Dreadnoughts right before they announced that they would print a judge foil version, I actually appreciate the reserved list.

I think that prefering to have thousands of players unable to get into the format and doesn't leting this format grow and be more diverse for a couple bucks it's a really selfish attitude...

[Mr.C]

Now that I think about it more, Modern Masters showed them that they can jam expensive cards in packs, mark up the price and immediately sell all the product.

If I were in sales, I'd be thinking about the crazy amounts of money we could make by reprinting just non-P9 cards. They could retail @ $30 per pack and people would be lining up outside stores to buy that stuff. If there were foil Duals in them, holy crap. I don't doubt there are people at Hasbro going "hmmm... I wonder if it's worth it to cash into the massive popularity of Magic right now..."

[Stan]

Not this shit again. They won't abolish that list, ever. Pleeeeeeeeeeeease accept that and move on. It doesn't matter how vocal you are about your butthurt sense of entitlement, you have absolutely no say in this matter.