[Deck] Food Chain Combo

[Lightless]

How much time does the combo take if your fast at it? Do you have concerns over running this online?

At 20 life the combo takes roughly 3 minutes. But like in paper, alot of the times you don't even combo of to finish the game.
But yeah some days I don't realy feel like clicking 340 times to kill my opponent ^^
I would love them to integrate shortcuts in mtgo, but to be honest I see the problems that that might cause.

[Manroe]

I'm playing in the team constructed tomorrow. Could we formulate what an ideal anti-Sneak and Show, anti combo board would look like?

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[Manipulato]

I'm playing in the team constructed tomorrow. Could we formulate what an ideal anti-Sneak and Show, anti combo board would look like?

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SIDEBOARD:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Golgari Charm
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Pithing Needle

Maybe like this? You could also make -2 Cages +2nd Needle +3rd Surgical.
Already with 2 Thoughtseize MD...

[.dk]

SIDEBOARD:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Golgari Charm
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Pithing Needle

Maybe like this? You could also make -2 Cages +2nd Needle +3rd Surgical.
Already with 2 Thoughtseize MD...

I've been liking my current configuration vs. show and tell decks:

2 main deck thoughtseize, 3 ponders maindeck. Sideboard of:

2 Surgical
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Duress
2 Mindbreak Trap (this could be fluster storm too)
1 Clique
2 Needle
1 Cage
2 Edict
2 Golgari Charm

I generally choose to fight S&S in their hand as well as on the stack, and not one the board. So, I'll board in Hymns, Duress, Trap/Flusterstorm, Clique and take out things like Strix while leaving in the combo.

[mike1987]

I've been liking my current configuration vs. show and tell decks:

2 main deck thoughtseize, 3 ponders maindeck. Sideboard of:

2 Surgical
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Duress
2 Mindbreak Trap (this could be fluster storm too)
1 Clique
2 Needle
1 Cage
2 Edict
2 Golgari Charm

I generally choose to fight S&S in their hand as well as on the stack, and not one the board. So, I'll board in Hymns, Duress, Trap/Flusterstorm, Clique and take out things like Strix while leaving in the combo.

Wouldn't targeted discard work better now in a metagame full of reanimator decks?

[.dk]

Wouldn't targeted discard work better now in a metagame full of reanimator decks?

You could - I have less reanimator and more burn and show and tell in my meta. If Reanimator is everywhere then yeah, hymn may not be the best thing. Probably go with 2 Duress and 3 Surgicals if that is the case.

[Manroe]

Very poor showing for my part of the team constructed today.

Lost to Elves twice, Grixis Delver, and drew with D&T and beat burn. Deck felt just too slow and too clunky. Pretty discouraged about Food Chain's place in todays meta.

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[JackaBo]

Very poor showing for my part of the team constructed today.

Lost to Elves twice, Grixis Delver, and drew with D&T and beat burn. Deck felt just too slow and too clunky. Pretty discouraged about Food Chain's place in todays meta.

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Sad to hear. In my experience the deck is good versus both elves and death and taxes. Burn and grixis not so much. Sounds like variance to me. What kind of cards (or lack of cards) did you lose to?

[janchu88]

In my experience the best way to lose to grixis is an unanwsered pyromancer backed up with counter magic and discard. But to be honest, a Lot of decks lose to that. It's not like the matchup was super easy but i feel very confident and ahead in the matchup to be honest. This being sad i am not a Fan of going down to 19 Lands in a deck with such a greedy mana curve (ive seen a Ton of people doing this lately) . An easy Step 1 for losing to grixis is not making your land Drops

[Manroe]

In my experience the best way to lose to grixis is an unanwsered pyromancer backed up with counter magic and discard. But to be honest, a Lot of decks lose to that. It's not like the matchup was super easy but i feel very confident and ahead in the matchup to be honest. This being sad i am not a Fan of going down to 19 Lands in a deck with such a greedy mana curve (ive seen a Ton of people doing this lately) . An easy Step 1 for losing to grixis is not making your land Drops

Exactly what happened. Got burnt game three on a mulligan and a bad brainstorm into abrupt decay, charm, Hymn with only a basic Island.

Elves, I got my ass royally kicked by top decks and Pendlehaven both of the games he won. I deluged and golgari charmed and still lost. I haven't beat Elves in over a month after beating it twice in the same day.

Burn has been cake since I've been playing Leyline of Vitality.

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[janchu88]

Sounds like you brought in hymn against grixis or do you play it maindeck? It's a very Bad card in the matchup to be honest. Dont get me wrong, i dont want to offend anyone but i get the feeling that your approach to the matchup isnt exactly where it should be

The problem with hymn is, that it's only good if you are ahead on Board. But the matchup evolves all around surviving the early to midgame and hymn doesnt Help at all in that spot, its the straight opposite since going for 2 Black mana sourceswill will always make you vulnerable to wasteland. Usually i Board out 2 forces and and bring in 2 plagues or similiar and thats it. If you have more sweepers u can Board out all 4 forces, but i would recommend leaving some number in if you are facing the stifle Version of grixis. And feel free to trade a ballista with an early pyromancer, since in the late game u can easily win even without the combo

[Manroe]

Sounds like you brought in hymn against grixis or do you play it maindeck? It's a very Bad card in the matchup to be honest. Dont get me wrong, i dont want to offend anyone but i get the feeling that your approach to the matchup isnt exactly where it should be

The problem with hymn is, that it's only good if you are ahead on Board. But the matchup evolves all around surviving the early to midgame and hymn doesnt Help at all in that spot, its the straight opposite since going for 2 Black mana sourceswill will always make you vulnerable to wasteland. Usually i Board out 2 forces and and bring in 2 plagues or similiar and thats it. If you have more sweepers u can Board out all 4 forces, but i would recommend leaving some number in if you are facing the stifle Version of grixis. And feel free to trade a ballista with an early pyromancer, since in the late game u can easily win even without the combo

I'm certainly not offended. You're likely right. I should've had that match locked up but being on the draw, mulling to six and whiffing on the brainstorm didn't help.

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[Lightless]

I played in the legacy challenge again. Same decklist as last time.

for now I will only write down the results of the matches, maybe later I will add some informations about the games.

Round 1 Vs Tin Fins 2-0
Round 2 Vs Pyromancer Control (no not czech pile) 2-1
Round 3 Vs Grixis Delver 0-2
Round 4 Vs Mono R Stompy 2-0
Round 5 Vs Tes 2-1
Round 6 Vs Sneak&Show 2-1

Top8 Vs Grixis Delver (same opponent as Round 3) 2-0
Top4 Vs Elves (Julian Knab) 1-2

[heat_wave]

After 4-0'ing the latest weekly event with Food Chain, I took it to a legacy open last Saturday. Finished 14th out of 48 with a 4-2 record. Games were as follows:

R1: vs Ubr Omnitell 1-2 (lost the die roll)
G1 I mulled into 6 cards that had little interaction and no fast combo, so I just went beatdown and kept draining my opponent with DRS. After a resolved Show and Tell he put Omniscience and started cantripping like crazy and I had no Leovold to hinder this. It took him two turns and about 7 or 8 spells to finally find Emrakul off the last Preordain, and we went to the next game. G2 I wasn't careful and fetched for duals only to be punished by Blood Moon. However, I had Leovold and Strix on board with Ballista in hand, plus FoW and a blue card. I didn't force Blood Moon, he forgot to fetch before casting it and got stuck on one basic Island; I countered the SnT that followed and Surgical'ed it away, which sealed the game. G3 he was on the play and cast T2 SnT with double counter backup; I put in Food Chain, he got Emrakul. I needed to draw into Scourge or Griffin off of two Strixen and Clique (targeting myself) that I chained on my turn, which I failed to do and died to the flying pasta monster.

R2: vs Dredge 2-0 (won the die roll)
G1 I forced one LED, let another one resolve, but he had very little action and my DRS kept everything under control. G2 I started with Tormod's Crypt and DRS, which kept me safe for most of the game. Then Firestorm got rid of Shaman, Fragmentize made me use Crypt and clear his graveyard, he ran out of resources while I found Trinket Mage into Grafdigger's Cage which sealed the deal.

R3: vs BR Reanimator 2-0 (won the die roll)
G1 I forced his Entomb, played carefully for a few turns, Leovold and Strix made his Griselbrand totally useless; I filled the board with flying beaters and DRS and finally assembled the combo. G2 I mulled into a hand of gravehate and countermagic (he went down to 6 cards, too), which prevented him from comboing off early; after a few turns of drawing lands I drew Trinket Mage into Grafdigger's Cage and beat him down with a 2/2 uncommon (while drawing into FoWs and griffins to pitch to them in case things go south).

R4: vs Food Chain 2-1 (lost the die roll)
G1 my maindeck Thoughtseizes helped me disrupt my opponent just enough for me to assemble the combo. G2 I was stuck under Leovold, which made my BS and Manipulate Fate worse; I missed my 3rd land drop for a turn, had my DRS killed, failed to find the combo in a few turns and died. We started G3 with about 12 minutes left on the clock; being on the play let me get aggressive: after a resolved Manipulate Fate I started casting my 3/3 beaters and my opponent had to be on the defence. My Food Chain granted my creatures pseudo vigilance and let my 2 griffins fly past his one. His DRS didn't manage to heal him fast enough and I finished him on my 3rd extra turn. After the match it turned out that he had boarded out Food Chains and I hadn't, which is something to consider (I have never put any thought to the mirror match since it is highly unlikely).

R5: vs 4c Loam 1-2 (lost the die roll)
I mulled a hand with a Swamp as the only land into 2 duals, Strix and some other cards. He started with Dark Confidant I had no counter for, then Chalice of the Void, then he destroyed my duals with 2 Wastelands and I never got back into the game. G2 he drew poorly, while I had Manipulate into Food Chain into a fleet of Griffins. When he tried to make a Marit Lage token to block one of the griffins, I killed him with Ballista in the second main phase. G3 I punted really hard which destroyed my chances for top 8. While he was getting threats into play, I found all the pieces of my combo; I drew 2 extra Food Chains with a BS, and instead of keeping 2 of 3 in my hand in case he kills one, I shuffled back 2 and kept one. I Surgical'd my own fetchland to keep him off DRS mana and stop him from making a 20/20 that turn; then I tried to combo off, got my Food Chain decay'ed, and died after two turns of chump blocking his Marit Lage and an 11/11 Knight of the Reliquary. Maybe I should have let him get Marit Lage on that critical turn, and Surgical his Dark Depths before comboing off to be sure it goes right, but alas.

R6: vs UR Sneak-Show/Omnitell fusion 2-0 (lost the die roll)
This match was recorded on Twitch, but there was nothing spectacular. My opponent was probably tired and made a few strange decisions. G1 he was stuck on 2 lands, and instead of discarding to hand size on the critical turn, he got a bit greedy and played a Lotus Petal. I decay'ed it on my turn and beat him down with 2 Strixen and other creatures. G2 he was low on mana, too; I found 2 Thoughtseizes, cast the first one, had it Misdirected back at me, discarded a Decay, cast another one, took his Show and Tell and left him with one BS in hand. After that, I found Trinket Mage into Chalice of the Void; he Burning Wished for Pyroclasm, but I had a Golgari Charm, used it to regenerate my team, and kept swinging. In a turn or two it was over.


I'm overall pretty happy with the list (except maybe 1 or 2 sideboard cards). Trinket Mages are gorgeous, even with no SDT to fetch in grindy games. If someone is interested in the decklist or how I sideboarded, I can write it down. I expected the meta to be mostly combo (with BR Reanimator and Show and Tell variants being the most popular), with some amount of Delvers of different flavors and other fair decks like D&T. The recent addition of 2 Thoughtseize to the main deck did help, as did switching a Gurmag Angler for the 4th Baleful Strix. I know I could have played better, but I only played the deck twice in the last two months before the open, and I had other things to do in the evening, so I'm not disappointed in my finish. Maybe I'll tune the sideboard a bit more, but the deck feels great now.

[meffeo]

If someone is interested in the decklist or how I sideboarded, I can write it down.

Curious to see the numbers of Mages and Ballistas, you tried the split 2/2? I understand that Trinket could fetch some spicy sideboard answer but Ballista is toooo good, therefore I'm scared cutting some of them.

[heat_wave]

Curious to see the numbers of Mages and Ballistas, you tried the split 2/2? I understand that Trinket could fetch some spicy sideboard answer but Ballista is toooo good, therefore I'm scared cutting some of them.

Yep, 2/2 split it is. I've tried increasing the number of Mages and Ballistas to 3 (3/2, 2/3 and 3/3 split), but there is only so much free space in the deck. Ballista is amazing, but Trinket helps in many tough matchups post board, is an extra blue card to pitch to FoW, and helps combo off in some corner cases where a lonely Ballista would not help.

[meffeo]

Yep, 2/2 split it is. I've tried increasing the number of Mages and Ballistas to 3 (3/2, 2/3 and 3/3 split), but there is only so much free space in the deck. Ballista is amazing, but Trinket helps in many tough matchups post board, is an extra blue card to pitch to FoW, and helps combo off in some corner cases where a lonely Ballista would not help.

How does your sb look like? Care to show how many Trinket targets do you have then?

[scry_me_a_river]

Hey - we are in the DTB section

Some time has passed since the Miracle ban, and I think the deck is still very well positioned. I also played in the MKM series in April in Frankfurt and I got 10th in the Trial (and one Bye) and finished 51 in the Main Event. Especially the Main Event showed me the high skill cap of the deck as I was very often misjudging my role in the MU or simply sequencing badly. But actually this is a good thing, as an experienced player will be rewarded even more

At the moment I am playing primarily online and I had three consecutive 4:1 finishes playing a lot against combo (Storm! and Elves). Especially the Elves MU improved a lot with Leovold and Ballista and also the Storm MU is ok after boarding, at least with my SB.

This is the list I have been playing some time (in paper and online):

Lands (19)
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs

Spells (18)
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Ponder
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize

Utility (4)
4 Food Chain

Creatures (19)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Eternal Scourge
4 Walking Ballista

Sideboard:
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Flusterstorm
1 Collective Brutality
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Surgical Extraction

I'm still not sure about the 20th land, but so far I didn't regret playing 19. I have also included a Vendilion Clique which is another effective card against the tough Combo MUs, against Control Decks and Stoneforge Decks. I also like the potential interaction with Food Chain, eating a creature and flashing in the Clique in the opponent's turn if necessary. I have not adopted the Trinket Mage Build, but I can see the advantages and I will definitely play it in the near future.

Like some of you, I chose to play 2 Thoughtseize which are absolutely stunning. I cut the 3rd Ponder and the 4th Decay. While I'm pretty sure about the Decay, the Ponder hurts, but it is a necessary evil at this point.

The sideboard is packed with removal and Combo Hate. Especially the mix of Hymns and Surgicals has been working great. Against Combo I usually board out my own Combo and become a hardcore control deck. With this setting (plus the Thoughtseizes and the Clique), the Combo MU is definitely possible to beat.

After all, I'm pretty happy with my SB. Nevertheless, I'd be very happy to get some feedback - what are other important cards you have chosen to play and why?

Furthermore, what are your expectations concerning the Meta going forward? What has been the toughest MU so far? I had my troubles with Grixis Delver...

Kind regards,

C

[heat_wave]

How does your sb look like? Care to show how many Trinket targets do you have then?

Sure! Here's my sb:

2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Swan Song
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Fatal Push
1 Golgari Charm

This post will be incomplete without maindeck, though, so I'll post it here too:

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
2 Thoughtseize
4 Food Chain
3 Manipulate Fate

Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Eternal Scourge
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista

[Kaono]

Played at a GPT today and did relatively well today, still loving this deck in the new meta.

List:
4 Walking Ballista
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
3 Misthollow Griffin
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Scourge

4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Manipulate Fate
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp


Sideboard:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Duress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Hydroblast
2 Engineered Plague
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Vendilion Clique

5 rounds + cut to top 8

round 1: nathan - mono red sneak attack

g1: Forced his Through the Breach, he had nothing else, so I combo'd easily
g2: didn't have any green mana, or 4th land to use Hydroblast to counter his Through the Breach through a Defense Grid (could've decayed it with green mana), lost to Worldspine Wurm
g3: Forced his through the breach, combo'd off easily

1-0 (2-1)

round 2: Jeremy - D&T

g1 I thoughtseized his prelate away and combo'd off before his assembled pressure could take over
g2 i mulled to 5 but a thoughtseize showed 3x Thalia -- strix held off everything but one thalia, and i eventually EOT decay into combo while at 3 life.

2-0 (4-1)

round 3: Tejan - Infect

g1 was weird in which we both brainstorm locked ourselves, and i was stuck on one land with 2 DRS while she just drew mono-pump spells -- I exiled the last 2 GY lands and went for the FC kill, she pierced/dazed but I double forced and killed her with combo

g2 she got a quick 5 infect in with nexus, but i dropped a balista on 1 and prevented her from going for it -- eventually i got a strix and leovold backup and started pumping ballista before winning with beatdowns

3-0 (6-1)

round 4: Aaron - MUD post

g1 he cast a TKS and not much else, so I comboed off after chaining some cantrips

g2 he cast multiple pithing needles on ballista, so i made an inf/inf ballista and passed -- he cast map with like 15 mana available so I forced it, then he cast Ulamog exiling chain and ballista, ulamog attack exiled both my edicts, so I had no option to win -- thinking now he also cast the new orb card that gives hexproof and prevents damage by 1 which double hosed ballista

g3 I thoughtseized and saw sphere of res and lodestone; i took lodestone cause he had cavern in hand and forced his t1 sphere -- a drawstep clique revealed only a needle which he cast naming ballista -- i started hardcasting ballistas for x=2 and won with beatdowns before he could cast his emrakul

4-0 (8-2)

round 5: grixis delver

drew the round and got dinner

4-0-1 (8-2)

Top 8: Tristan - 4c Aggro Loam

g1 I cast a sylvan library on t2 off usea and bayou which got wastelanded -- i drew aggressively off library to find my basics and eventually got to a boardstate where i cast food chain at 2 life. he eot fetched dyrad arbor and put me to 1, i had ballista in hand and needed an island to cast leovold -> griffin or scourge, luck was on my side and i topdecked scourge on last possible turn to win

g2 he cast chalice on 1 and 3 and was loaming every turn but i had 4 basics -- i forced a chains of meph pitching griffin and eventually cast and started attacking. ballistas for 2 tried joining the party but kept getting pfired so pinged him. eventually he found 2nd grove and tried pfiring griffin but i forced 2nd pfire twice over 2 turns to get the last few points of damage in

5-0-1 (10-2)

Top 4: Zach - Burn

g1 he had an amazing hand and I wasn't able to chain enough resistance together to stop him -- a t1 thoughtseize revealed mono-gas plus one land (i took guide) and he peeled off the lands he needed to run me over quickly

g2 i didn't see hydroblast and got stuck on usea + island with full combo in hand and lost rather quickly

5-1-1 (10-4)

Burn is a bad matchup so it's not a surprise to lose to it, but it sucks to devote SB spots almost solely for it and still lose :( Overall very happy with the list and my lines of play today, I think I maximized my ability to win nearly every match. The sylvan library in the deck is meant to be a ponder, but I don't have a 3rd foil ponder yet ;)