Cabal Therapy Price

[AznSeal]

Does anyone know why Cabal Therapy just basically doubled in price?

[Lemnear]

Does anyone know why Cabal Therapy just basically doubled in price?

I think the question is answered after the Born of the Gods Spoiler is finished. i'm sure SCG has access to all Godbooks/upcoming B&R-Updates as this is idicated by several suspicious incidents in the past.

[Looooooooo]

I think the question is answered after the Born of the Gods Spoiler is finished. i'm sure SCG has access to all Godbooks/upcoming B&R-Updates as this is idicated by several suspicious incidents in the past.

What are you implying?
The reprint is impossible (Flashback is out as a mechanic) and i don't think that there can be a card that can be answered only with CT...

- L

[Lemnear]

What are you implying?
The reprint is impossible (Flashback is out as a mechanic) and i don't think that there can be a card that can be answered only with CT...

- L

Outright the opposite: a card that interacts WITH Therapy

[TsumiBand]

So, for the record -- I'm inclined to agree with the idea that there's some kind of advanced knowledge afoot, but I have to admit I have difficulty validating that reaction.

How do you rule out a lack of demand? What does one use as an observer to measure demand?

I mean, I know what *my* level of demand for Cabal Therapy is - it isn't very high, I came into my playset years ago.

Are we basing this 'lack' of demand on anticipated tournaments? You know, like… if we metagame the metagame, and we know that Cabal Therapy goes in a deck which is a great meta foil, and we then assume that lots of people flock to that card? That seems like a difficult task.

Nonetheless, demand seems sort of intangible unless one actually owns a store and can see the number of requests coming in for such-and-such a card increasing over time. So where are we getting this idea from that it has to be advanced knowledge?

[Erdvermampfa]

So, for the record -- I'm inclined to agree with the idea that there's some kind of advanced knowledge afoot, but I have to admit I have difficulty validating that reaction.

How do you rule out a lack of demand? What does one use as an observer to measure demand?

I mean, I know what *my* level of demand for Cabal Therapy is - it isn't very high, I came into my playset years ago.

Are we basing this 'lack' of demand on anticipated tournaments? You know, like… if we metagame the metagame, and we know that Cabal Therapy goes in a deck which is a great meta foil, and we then assume that lots of people flock to that card? That seems like a difficult task.

Nonetheless, demand seems sort of intangible unless one actually owns a store and can see the number of requests coming in for such-and-such a card increasing over time. So where are we getting this idea from that it has to be advanced knowledge?

I don't think that we have to apply scientific methodology on subjects like these, especially since we haven't got any data most of the times. Nonetheless, intuition and our general experiences with the magic market and its players should suffice in general.

[Michael Keller]

Or, you know, the fact that card is ridiculously good in general - but better with Gitaxian Probe?

It's seeing A LOT of play right now, and for good reason.

[Megadeus]

No-one doubts the power level. But it has been 5-7 for awhile now. Why suddenly out of nowhere it more than doubled in price?

[Tammit67]

Why suddenly out of nowhere it more than doubled in price?

Because they aren't on the counterfeiting list.

Just to be safe, I'm going to pick up 3 extra playsets of everything not on that list. I'll double my money easily!

[Arsenal]

Or, you know, the fact that card is ridiculously good in general - but better with Gitaxian Probe?

It's seeing A LOT of play right now, and for good reason.

According to tcdecks, it isn't seeing more play now than it was when it was holding steady at $7 for the longest time.

[Kayradis]

Hurray for me buying a playset of Foil in DC!

EDIT :
This is fucked. Just digging on MTGStocks.
Summoner's Egg jumped like crazy (15$ for a foil?!?!)
Fist of the Suns as well....
Unless there is someone trolling the fuck outta the market there someone somewhere that knows something that might change somehow...

[Jonathan Alexander]

Fist of Suns is due to Jan Van Der Vegt's Modern Tin Fists Deck, which is basically Goryo's Vengeance + Fist of Suns for Emrakul / Griselbrand. Deck has been known for a while, card started rising in price, then he did reasonably well in the GP with someone else piloting the deck to a Top 8 finish. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Summoner's Egg? Well, there's a new Travis Woo deck. Just take a look at Disrupting Shoal. Again, typical price fluctuation.

Cabal Therapy has been increasing in value for more than a week, following Infernal Tutor. Don't see how it has anything to do with BNG cards. Also, I don't believe in these conspiracy-theories.

[Michael Keller]

Cabal Therapy is just a widely used, powerful card. Like Jona said, it has been creeping up in value and I actually told a friend of mine about three months ago not to be surprised if it rockets in value - especially Judgment foils (which I too am happy to have).

[Barook]

EDIT :
This is fucked. Just digging on MTGStocks.
Summoner's Egg jumped like crazy (15$ for a foil?!?!)
Fist of the Suns as well....
Unless there is someone trolling the fuck outta the market there someone somewhere that knows something that might change somehow...

The rise of Cabal Therapy was market manipulation at its finest. I blame SCG (and maybe other big players in the secondary market, who knows).

There's a pretty easy way to tell whether there's actual demand or just some assholes messing with the market: Comparing the price between MODO and Paper. If prices in both spike, it's demand, if only Paper spikes for no appearent reason, it's market manipulation. It is that easy and we do have the tools now to call speculators out on their bullshit:

I don't know what caused the rise of Summoner's Egg, but there's clearly demand for it in both Paper and MODO :

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Fist+of+Suns+%5B5DN%5D --> demand

Both Griselbrand and Fist of Suns had a price spike due to the new Tin Fists deck in the latest Modern GP:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Griselbrand+%5BAVR%5D --> demand

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Fist+of+Suns+%5B5DN%5D --> demand

Stoneforge Mythic recently trippled in price as well. While this increase in price might have been fueled by speculators as well, the timeline clearly indicates a clear increase in demand ever since TNN was unleashed onto the format:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Ston...stic+%5BWWK%5D --> demand

As for Cabal Therapy: While there has been a steady increase in price the last few months, the recent price spike is completely unaccounted for. There's no new hot deck using it and MODO hasn't shown any price spike either to indicate increased demand:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Cabal+Therapy+%5BJUD%5D --> market manipulation

Edit: Disrupting Shoal is also met by market demand:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Disr...hoal+%5BBOK%5D --> demand

[FTW]

There could be information assymetry. Might dealers like SCG know about a new card that will synergize with Cabal, causing speculation?

It's not AWFUL with Waste Not. You name a creature. If you hit a creature, you get a free 2/2 zombie and can immediately flash it back on whatever they have the most copies of in hand. If you probed or Thoughtseized them first, then you probably know what creature to name too.

[TsumiBand]

It's not AWFUL with Waste Not. You name a creature. If you hit a creature, you get a free 2/2 zombie and can immediately flash it back on whatever they have the most copies of in hand. If you probed or Thoughtseized them first, then you probably know what creature to name too.

Actually, I bet this is a lot of it. I know that I'm interested in playing around with this interaction.

A while ago it was suggested by several people that Quiet Speculation + Young Pyromancer could chain Therapies or other spells with cheap-as-free Flashback. If there's a decent Vintage/Legacy brew that combines this with Waste Not, it could explain some of the increased attention.

*Some* of the attention. I still can't really pretend to know exactly why the card has doubled in apparent value.

[PirateKing]

Maybe I'm a bad player (okay not maybe) but I would have expected to see Hymn to Tourach spike more from Waste Not, seeing as it makes all by itself, and nothing is going to give you better synergy.

[Scott]

Also, Nic Fit is having a good run.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Holy shit SFM is $35 when did that happen.

Good Chinese "proxies" can't get here fast enough.

[jamis]

I went to my LGS last week looking to pick up a playset of Cabal Therapy, but they didn't have any in stock. The price increase is obviously because I personally am looking for some.