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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2641

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    Please give us a sideboard too! Looks good so far, though I am dubious about the main deck Abrade (non-one cmc removal that doesn't go to the face I am wary of). Seems like you have way too much removal in the main deck, 7 is generally the upper-limit.
    Sure! Totally Forgot that

    Sideboard
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Rough // Tumble
    1 Hydroblast
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Submerge
    1 Abrade
    1 Forked Bolt

    To the Abrade Main, i play this one mostly so i can remove a Chalice pre Board, but you are right sometimes it feels clunky . I've been testing it for about 2 months now and im not sure if it should stay in the main. The meta at my locals is pretty diverse, but it feels like i always get to face the Chalice decks.

  2. #2642
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Seal of Primordium or Destructive Revelry?

    I play 1 Grudge and 2 Revelry at the moment and was wondering if Seal was strictly better/worse than Revelry or worth a split. I am leaning towards instant speed right now.

    Also, anybody else plays Stifle-less? I think the cardis garbage and that playing Mongoose is the main selling point to RUG.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  3. #2643

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I've won way too many games due to stifle to ever consider cutting it from mainboard. You're more than welcome to try to brew a midrange deck that doesn't use it

  4. #2644

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Nationals side event

    4 Delver
    4 Goyf
    4 Goose

    4 Bolt
    4 Force
    4 Daze
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle

    2 Seal of Fire
    2 Spell Snare
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Preordain

    3 Volc
    3 Trop
    4 Waste
    8 Fetchlands

    1 Honden
    1 Counterspell
    1 Winter Orb
    1 Loam
    1 Barbarian Ring
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Pierce
    2 Red Blast
    2 TNN
    2 Surgical
    2 Grudge

    2-0 Think Twice Miracles
    2-0 Sneak and Show
    0-2 Lands
    0-2 Elves
    1-2 Sea Stompy

    Wins felt easy
    G2 vs lands and elves were close but these are not good matchups
    Chalice decks are a lottery

    No new thoughts really
    Still not a huge fan of WOrb but just grabbed whatever version of the deck I had in the drawer on the way out the door

  5. #2645
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    Darkness's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Go get them you RUG players, it's your time to shine again!

  6. #2646
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
    Go get them you RUG players, it's your time to shine again!
    Winter Orb is going to be a house in the post-ban metagame.

  7. #2647

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Aaand were back!

  8. #2648

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Yes! Time to play Legacy again!
    I really believe these changes make RUG Delver the best Delver deck again

  9. #2649

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey guys!I took RUG Delver to a third place finish at the Legacy Classic at SCG Atlanta this past weekend. The turnout was 90 players even, which meant 7 rounds of Swiss before the cut to top 8.

    The list:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle
    1 Wild Slash
    4 Daze
    1 Predict
    2 Dismember

    4 Force of Will
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Flusterstorm
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Abrade
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Counterspell
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Barbarian Ring


    My list is (heavily) influenced by Sean Brown and all his excellent content on the deck. Ive only been playing it for about 3 months, so his articles and sideboarding strategies have been immensely helpful.

    I ended up going undefeated in the Swiss, ending up 5-0-2 and entering into Top 8 at 2nd seed. Matchups:

    Round 1: Czech Pile [WLW]
    Round 2: Storm [LWW]
    Round 3: Grixis Delver [WLW]
    Round 4: Miracles [LWW]
    Round 5: Grixis Delver [WW]
    Round 6 and 7: ID
    Quarterfinals: Loam Pox [WLW]
    Semifinals: Grixis Delver (my opponent from round 5) [WLL]

    The plan was originally to write up a longer report, but since more than half of my tournament was against DRS decks I'm not sure how relevant that information is given the B&R news today. It was a really fun tournament, and all of my opponents were great. I actually beat both of the players who got 1st and 2nd in the Swiss, but Zach got his revenge on me in the top 4 and went on to win the whole thing. I'm happy to answer any questions you all might have.

  10. #2650

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Great stuff @ComeOnAndSlam! Glad you enjoyed the list and my writing on it. I think a lot of the technology found pre-DRS ban will be excellent tools to use adapting to the format moving forward, even though I think many of us will be gravitating to Goyf-based lists as the first point of call (I personally may still be experimenting with the Monkies, just to see how relevant they are still).

    Some questions:
    - Thoughts on the Predict?
    - Wild Slash is a spicy option I imagine inspired by recent Grixis lists. How relevant was it over an option such as Dead // Gone, be it via its damage prevention mode or ability to shoot for the face?

    Also remember everyone to head to the RUG Discord for real-time chats of the deck:
    https://discord.gg/VYWW2ND
    Writing:

    Also podcast with Stevestamopz and Speedbump_NZ on The Salt Mine.

  11. #2651

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    How long 'til we reclaim DTB?

  12. #2652

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Thanks Sean!

    I honestly didn't cast the Predict all day. I love the idea of it, but unfortunately never drew it to see if it was good. It seems like it's at its best in grindy matchups, and with BUG decks on the decline now I could see it becoming something like Loam (or Standstill!)

    The Wild Slash was something I've been trying. I have always wanted 7 removal spells for DRS and that last spot has alternately been Dead / Gone, Forked Bolt, Chain Lightning, etc. I cast Wild Slash to face for lethal once during the tournament, and I almost lived the Ferocious dream in the semis against my Grixis Delver opponent. He had a tapped Gurmag and an untapped TNN, while I had a Mandrills on the board with my hand as Bolt + Slash. I could have attacked, he would block with TNN, and I would Bolt + Slash the Angler - the TNN would die and he'd take 3 damage. Sadly none of this mattered because he Dismembered my monkey the turn before!

    I agree that it seems like Tarmogoyf is the way forward. I'll probably try some combination of Bolt + SoFire + Tarfire and see how that works.

    I gotta say, I'm going to miss the feeling of playing RUG Delver when it wasn't as well positioned in the meta. It always felt like people were rooting for you because everyone has a soft spot for the Goose. My friend describes it as being like the legacy family's crazy uncle - it used to be successful, the fell on hard times, but now it's trying to get back to its former glory and everyone cheers it on for doing its best :)

  13. #2653

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So is Goyf just not good enough anymore?

  14. #2654
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius42 View Post
    So is Goyf just not good enough anymore?
    Goyf is a victim of drs. But this isnt the case anymore

  15. #2655

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I don't think that Goyf necessarily got killed by DRS: if you couldn't get rid of your opponent's DRS it made your entire deck bad (Wasteland, Daze, Mongoose, etc). The fact that it could shrink Tarmogoyf very rarely mattered in my experience.
    Whether Goyf or Mandrills is the best choice largely depends on what kind of removal spells people are playing
    If mirror turns out to be a frequent occurrence then people will probably find Goyf > Mandrills (or we start seeing SB Scavenging Ooze again).
    Goyf is also way better vs Eldrazi
    One of the biggest reasons for Mandrills was Trample vs Elves and presumably that matchup becomes much easier with no DRS

    Wild Slash is/was a fine idea but the main points for it were
    - You wanted a 1-mana instant to kill your opponents turn 1 DRS when you go first and don't have a play on turn 1
    - You didn't want to play Seal of Fire to do this job because your deck didn't have Tarmogoyf and you didn't want to boost your opponent's ones
    - You wanted the ability to go face with it

    I don't disagree that all of these points are important but I'm skeptical that the prevention-block effect would come up more than paying the kicker on Burst Lightning

    Now a significant part of what made seal of fire desirable (untargetable by DRS) is gone
    I still think it's a better removal spell than Tarfire but being an instant to flip your Delver is also important
    I would be more inclined to play a split of each now
    Alternatively Chain Lightning or something else might be more appealing now that there isn't this strict need to kill an X/2 on turn 1 all the time, but I think Goyf sizing is still relevant

  16. #2656

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I don't think that Goyf necessarily got killed by DRS: if you couldn't get rid of your opponent's DRS it made your entire deck bad (Wasteland, Daze, Mongoose, etc). The fact that it could shrink Tarmogoyf very rarely mattered in my experience.
    Whether Goyf or Mandrills is the best choice largely depends on what kind of removal spells people are playing
    If mirror turns out to be a frequent occurrence then people will probably find Goyf > Mandrills (or we start seeing SB Scavenging Ooze again).
    Goyf is also way better vs Eldrazi
    One of the biggest reasons for Mandrills was Trample vs Elves and presumably that matchup becomes much easier with no DRS

    Wild Slash is/was a fine idea but the main points for it were
    - You wanted a 1-mana instant to kill your opponents turn 1 DRS when you go first and don't have a play on turn 1
    - You didn't want to play Seal of Fire to do this job because your deck didn't have Tarmogoyf and you didn't want to boost your opponent's ones
    - You wanted the ability to go face with it

    I don't disagree that all of these points are important but I'm skeptical that the prevention-block effect would come up more than paying the kicker on Burst Lightning

    Now a significant part of what made seal of fire desirable (untargetable by DRS) is gone
    I still think it's a better removal spell than Tarfire but being an instant to flip your Delver is also important
    I would be more inclined to play a split of each now
    Alternatively Chain Lightning or something else might be more appealing now that there isn't this strict need to kill an X/2 on turn 1 all the time, but I think Goyf sizing is still relevant
    Hi, it's very interesting. Do you still prefer seal of fire over tarfire only because it makes goyfs even bigger with enchantment ? (even if it's a great reason)
    I've been very happy with seal of fire too, but i'm been playing a lot 1 dismember main. The only situation i was sad to have it in hand, it was when dismember was my only "burn" spell in hand and had to kill deathrite T1 with it.
    If there are more tempo thresh and team america these days, i'll be even more happy to have dismember for other goyfs. Now maybe we won't see that many strix, so i'm thinking about : 4 bolts, 1 dismember, 1 seal or tarfire

    I played a lot again D&T, and dismember is your only way maindeck to deal with sanctum prelate if you don't have counters anymore. And if you don't counter vial, you've lost, if mother is able to leave, you've lost...

  17. #2657
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    //Artifact
    1 Winter Orb

    //Creature
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Tarmogoyf

    //Instant
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    4 Daze
    2 Dismember
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle

    //Land
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    //Sorcery
    4 Ponder

    //Sideboard
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 2 Winter Orb
    SB: 1 Tarmogoyf
    SB: 2 True-Name Nemesis
    SB: 1 Seal of Fire
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 3 Pyroblast
    SB: 1 Spell Pierce
    SB: 2 Submerge

    This is an old list (July 2016), but it's a great starting point i think.

    What i'm unsure about:

    1. Maindeck Winter Orb / having three copies. Maybe the Miracles matchup is good enough even without Winter Orb, but depending on what else is played, you want Orbs anyway. I'd probably stick with the exact maindeck for now.

    2. Three Pyroblasts. You might want to replace one with a Flusterstorm. Definitely don't trim Spell Pierces though.

    3. Tarmogoyf vs. Hooting Mandrills. I would vastly prefer to play Mandrills because it's just so much better vs. pretty much all Chalice decks and, perhaps more importantly, combo. A case could be made for cutting the sideboard Tarmogoyf, but i'm not sure i'm comfortable going to eight creatures in matchups where you want to cut either Mongoose or Delver. I'll stick with three Goyfs for now.

    4. Submerge. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad. Can't tell for now.

    5. What to replace Seal of Fire with. It really could be anything; Dead // Gone, Abrade, Vapor Snag, Forked Bolt, Blazing Volley, Electrickery, Rough // Tumble, Mind Harness or even the third Submerge.

    6. How to find room for Gemstone Caverns. I don't think you want to go as far as running two copies for now, but i'm fairly certain you want at least one. I don't think you should add it before you know for sure what you can remove. Don't randomly cut things.

    7. Do you want a second Surgical Extraction now? Maybe. But what i said about Caverns applies here as well: Wait a few days or weeks for the metagame to settle down a bit.

    So to recap, i would play the same maindeck with this sideboard:

    SB: 2 Winter Orb
    SB: 1 Tarmogoyf
    SB: 2 True-Name Nemesis
    SB: 1 Abrade
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 1 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Pyroblast
    SB: 1 Spell Pierce
    SB: 2 Submerge
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction

    Abrade is a flex slot; you should rotate through different removal spells to see what works. I'm going to start testing this list at some point in the next few days.

    Edit: I could very well see LoamRing being amazing going forward. Keep that option in mind.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  18. #2658

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I think Goyf will definitely shine with DRS banned. Plus, six mainboard removal should be enough now, I personally have been playing seven. Most likely will stick with:

    4x lightning bolt
    1x tarfire
    1 dismember

    Without grixis in the meta, also considering MB Winter orbs, and going full mana denial. Just not sure if it's worth losing 2x counter slots, and they also don't flip delver.

    My current Build is :

    Main (60)

    Creatures (12)

    4x delver
    4x nimble mongoose
    4x tarmogoyf

    Spells (30)

    4x brainstorm
    4x ponder
    4x force of will
    4x daze
    4x stifle
    2x spell pierce
    2x spell snare
    4x lightning bolt
    1x dismember
    1x tarfire

    Land (18)

    3x volcanic island
    3x tropical island
    4x wasteland
    4x polluted delta
    4x flooded strand

    Sideboard (15)
    2x REB
    1x counterspell
    1x flusterstorm
    2x surgical extraction
    1x grafdiggers cage
    1x sylvan library
    2x winter orb
    2x ancient grudge
    1x TNN
    1x dismember
    1x rough/tumble


    Any suggestions appreciated. ;)

  19. #2659

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfouine View Post
    Hi, it's very interesting. Do you still prefer seal of fire over tarfire only because it makes goyfs even bigger with enchantment ? (even if it's a great reason)
    I've been very happy with seal of fire too, but i'm been playing a lot 1 dismember main. The only situation i was sad to have it in hand, it was when dismember was my only "burn" spell in hand and had to kill deathrite T1 with it.
    If there are more tempo thresh and team america these days, i'll be even more happy to have dismember for other goyfs. Now maybe we won't see that many strix, so i'm thinking about : 4 bolts, 1 dismember, 1 seal or tarfire

    I played a lot again D&T, and dismember is your only way maindeck to deal with sanctum prelate if you don't have counters anymore. And if you don't counter vial, you've lost, if mother is able to leave, you've lost...
    The way Seal works where you can play it whenever you have a spare mana and then have a free shock up at any point for the rest of the game is very strong.

    I agree that more Dismembers are potentially good, for non-1cmc removal options vs DNT I don't hate the idea of abrade either

    @JA
    1. From my perspective I would say that you seem to strongly overrate winter orb, every legacy deck is so efficient now, I agree that it's good against Miracles and other control decks (if such a thing even exists) but you were even recommending boarding it in vs like DNT and Eldrazi which in my experience has way too much chance of backfiring / not doing anything. I would play max 1 SB and that's it.
    2. In my opinion playing more than 2 blasts is a specific anti-miracles stance, against prison/combo in general you would rather have pierce/fluster (SB counterspell is also an option but I don't think you want 2 in the 75)
    3. Saying that Mandrils > Goyf vs Chalice decks is insane to me, Tarmogoyf is obviously stronger vs Eldrazi because it outsizes TKS and Smasher, and vs Moon Stompy Mandrills neatly dies to Chandra -3. I agree that being able to cast Mandrills for 1 mana makes it slightly better against combo but it's not ahead by much because sometimes being able to deploy Goyf earlier (and Goyf = more power = faster clock) is also relevant.
    4. Never really liked this card, might be better now if there are more Goyf/Knight decks
    5. I like Abrade and I also like the wide removal (Electrickery/Volley/Forked Bolt) because I expect an uptick in DNT and Elves loses a 2-toughness creature
    6. This is a spicy idea but I am not on board, the decks this is seen in Modern have a use for colorless mana if you don't open with it
    7. I think you needed 2 GY hate cards before, with DRS gone this seems even more necessary, if you weren't going to play Loam then I would consider Ground Seal but maybe this isn't worth it with no DRS (you could also play Scavenging Ooze SB in your Goyf slot)

  20. #2660
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Stuff
    Welcome back, old friend!

    Trying to keep this on topic: maindeck Winter Orb. Niiiiiiiiiice.
    A book about the dark side of Legacy: "Magic: The Addiction" // Conversations with Magic players: "Humans of Magic"

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