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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #1621

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by LewisCBR View Post
    Hey, random Thresh questions as i try to improve my play...

    #1: Say I am on the draw in the blind and have an opener of a couple fetches, Wasteland, Delver, Ponder, and bolt; a typical very good hand. If my opponent opens with Tarn into Tundra (indicating Counter/Top) and Ponders with his mana, do you immediately Waste it on your turn?

    #2: I'm in game 3 against Re-animator, on the draw. My opener is pretty sweet, has a Cage, cantrips, and threats, but lacks a Force/Daze. I keep it after he mulls to 6.... only to get nutted on when his turn 1 is Ritual into Entomb into Reanimate. Now theres a Grizzy in play and i auto-lose.

    Is it basically a requirement to mull into a Force against this deck? I feel like i lose to big resolved creatures far too often, would a couple sideboard Vapor Snags be too crazy?

    #3: On the play against Storm. I have a good hand with Stifle, lands, Tarmo, etc, but no Force/Daze. On turn 1 i Ponder and look for counter magic, but dont see any. Turn 2 i play Tarmo to get the beats going, but leave myself vulnerable.... and the inevitable happens and storms off turn 2.
    1. If he ponders and shuffles, I might waste. If he ponders and keeps, I do not waste. I most likely ponder here.

    2. Reanimator is one of the scariest decks to play against IMO. I would not mull explicitly to force of will especially on the back of other strong cards in my hand. Can't win em all...

    3. Need more information on your hand. ANT or TES? What did you ponder into? I probably jam Goyf like you did. I don't believe we have the resources to be playing control vs storm and you are correct we need to get a clock going quickly. Also, ANT is more of a turn 3/4 deck than turn 2.

  2. #1622

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    1. If he ponders and shuffles, I might waste. If he ponders and keeps, I do not waste. I most likely ponder here.
    Why would you ponder here and not landing delver? searching for counter backup to save it from being removed?

  3. #1623
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by haloquaero View Post
    Why would you ponder here and not landing delver? searching for counter backup to save it from being removed?
    We may also be over-thinking the Counterbalance, given a lack of SDT. You still have a good chance of forcing the SDT while laying threats, although it's far more risky of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  4. #1624

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Thanks for the replies, it gives me a lot to think about, which is what i love about this deck.

    I still seem to be having trouble with combo decks; Storm (both ANT and TES) and Reanimator. I feel like i never have enough counters against either. Storm can rip your hand apart pretty easily (Daze feels pointless) and against Reanimator once an Iona or G-daddy is on the table there is nothing this deck can do against it. A Delver is a slow clock against these decks, they eventually battle through my hand. I'm just not sure if these are traditionally bad matchups or I'm doing something wrong. I need to re-work my side with more hate specifically for these decks, other decks I seem to do very well against. *shrug*

  5. #1625

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by LewisCBR View Post
    Thanks for the replies, it gives me a lot to think about, which is what i love about this deck.

    I still seem to be having trouble with combo decks; Storm (both ANT and TES) and Reanimator. I feel like i never have enough counters against either. Storm can rip your hand apart pretty easily (Daze feels pointless) and against Reanimator once an Iona or G-daddy is on the table there is nothing this deck can do against it. A Delver is a slow clock against these decks, they eventually battle through my hand. I'm just not sure if these are traditionally bad matchups or I'm doing something wrong. I need to re-work my side with more hate specifically for these decks, other decks I seem to do very well against. *shrug*
    Not having enough counter magic can be a problem. Combo match ups can usually be boiled down to who can bluff better. If you play to cautiously they will call your bluff. On the other hand if you double down on threats turn 2 they might be inclined to go off thinking that's their best window.
    The best advice I could give you is to start thinking less "what is this hand missing" and more "what do I have to work with".

    If you know you're against combo and have ponder, daze, brainstorm, waste, lands then play ponder turn 1 with the incentive to daze whatever their turn 1 play is. This way you're making the full use of your mana and daze. Whether it's a cantrip* or turn 1 duress. Daze especially against ant loses value quickly. Even if you're trading a daze with a petal they played out to incline you to not daze their one mana spell it's probably worth it and could cut them off red mana.

    Another intracacy against combo that just has discard is your cantrips serve a different roll to some extent. Against any cabal therapy if they know your hand and you have brainstorm. The possible scenarios are:

    1 You let them therapy you and they take the known counter.

    1a They go for it after their therapy. You brainstorm hit some disruption and stop them. Maybe it's just dazing their first ritual, but between that and the 1 mana they invested into disruption it stops them or forces them into just black mana and using ad nauseam.

    2 They therapy in response you brainstorm hide your known counter magic. Now they have to blind name something and can possibly whiff.

    2a This can be even more effective if you have 2 brainstorms. Then you can still have access to whatever you hid incase you bricked. They won't go for it knowing you have access to that counter still unless they think you actually don't have a blue card for the force or something like that.

    You can create similar scenarios like this with ponder plus brainstorm. There's always something you could have done differently. No matter how absurd it is there's always something that could have changed the game.

    I've had combo players not pay for a daze on their brainstorm because they know I could have stifle. The risk is so high of getting their land destroyed that they would rather fold then try to resolve it. Even if they do call my bluff if that's all I got to work with then that's my angle. It could possibly brainstorm lock them or force them to ponder shuffle which is better than dying with a daze in hand.

    * Daze can be dead against storm, but is still good vs show and tell or other combo decks. Against show and tell decks daze a cantrip only if you're already ahead and have a threat. That way you're just trying to make the game go as fast as possible and they have less looks to assemble the combo.


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  6. #1626

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey guys, some questions regarding the deck:

    1. Against miracles, it's good to play the second creature if they don't have top to set up terminus? In the case that you can double your clock playing the second creature, my guess is that it is a good play but i'm not sure.

    2. Against miracles you keep dazes on the play? You keep stifle on the draw? It's proven that the mana denial plan is not viable against miracles and the stifles are there for the miracles and probably jace. So probably keep 2? I dunno.

    3. When playing against combo(especially show and tell and storm variants) do you side out some creatures, right? I do side out 2 tarmogoyf but probably is better to side out 2 gooses since it's a slower clock. the thing is tarmo costs 2 mana and there are some hands that is risky to play it turn 2. It can be correct to side out tarmos on the play, and gooses on the draw?

    4. Against storm do you keep stifle to counter the storm trigger or do you use them on the fetches? I played TES for a long time and one of the most things I feared is stifle, but many times you can just go off, generate tons of mana and rip their hand so it doesn't matter. It depends on the hand? I'm usually saving it unless I have more land destruction, in that case I just go for their lands.

    Thank you, and last question why a lot of people say this deck is not very good right now? In the SCG classec/opens there is always some number of RUG delver in top16. I don't think it's tier 1, but probably just one step below. And by the way i'm by no means a good player with the deck but I manage to win consistently.

  7. #1627

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by NARO View Post
    Hey guys, some questions regarding the deck:

    1. Against miracles, it's good to play the second creature if they don't have top to set up terminus? In the case that you can double your clock playing the second creature, my guess is that it is a good play but i'm not sure.

    2. Against miracles you keep dazes on the play? You keep stifle on the draw? It's proven that the mana denial plan is not viable against miracles and the stifles are there for the miracles and probably jace. So probably keep 2? I dunno.

    3. When playing against combo(especially show and tell and storm variants) do you side out some creatures, right? I do side out 2 tarmogoyf but probably is better to side out 2 gooses since it's a slower clock. the thing is tarmo costs 2 mana and there are some hands that is risky to play it turn 2. It can be correct to side out tarmos on the play, and gooses on the draw?

    4. Against storm do you keep stifle to counter the storm trigger or do you use them on the fetches? I played TES for a long time and one of the most things I feared is stifle, but many times you can just go off, generate tons of mana and rip their hand so it doesn't matter. It depends on the hand? I'm usually saving it unless I have more land destruction, in that case I just go for their lands.

    Thank you, and last question why a lot of people say this deck is not very good right now? In the SCG classec/opens there is always some number of RUG delver in top16. I don't think it's tier 1, but probably just one step below. And by the way i'm by no means a good player with the deck but I manage to win consistently.
    1. They don't need to top to set up Terminus. They have Brainstorm. The general rule should be not to play more then one creature, but there is ofc situations where you can. e.g: They don't have white mana and you have a hand full of stifles and counterspells, or that you have surgical extracted Terminus. I would not jam out a extra Goose if I didn't have threshold, though.

    2. You keep all stifles _always_. Stifleing miracle triggers is how you win the game. Same goes for jace unsummon. And sometimes you get to keep them off white by stifling fetches while you are beating down with a early flipped delver and just win. Most people side out all Dazes, even OTP. I personally leave some copies in if I noticed that the opponent doesn't play around it.

    3. It's probably correct to side out some creatures, but this is personal preference.

    4. This topic is currently being discussed heavily on the Grixis Tempo section.

    5. The deck is good. Don't listen to them.

  8. #1628

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Annoying, just 4-1'd an online league, but really wanted to 5-0 it, to show the world that Thresh is still good. :)

    My only loss was to my 3rd Eldrazi matchup, in the set of 5 matches. AND, it was a re-match. Havent had that happen before in other leagues, but i had just played that guy last night for my 3rd win. I wonder if he finished up his 5 matches and was on a new set?..

    Eldrazi is a thing, and kind of tough for this deck. I got lucky on the first two matches, i'll admit, me opponents had less than optimal hands, but couldnt luck sack out the 3rd. Thought Knot Seer on turn 2 is the real deal, especially if they are on the play and jammed a Chalice on 1 turn 1... wtf can you do.

    Might have to start main decking Dismembers.

  9. #1629
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by LewisCBR View Post
    Annoying, just 4-1'd an online league, but really wanted to 5-0 it, to show the world that Thresh is still good. :)

    My only loss was to my 3rd Eldrazi matchup, in the set of 5 matches. AND, it was a re-match. Havent had that happen before in other leagues, but i had just played that guy last night for my 3rd win. I wonder if he finished up his 5 matches and was on a new set?..

    Eldrazi is a thing, and kind of tough for this deck. I got lucky on the first two matches, i'll admit, me opponents had less than optimal hands, but couldnt luck sack out the 3rd. Thought Knot Seer on turn 2 is the real deal, especially if they are on the play and jammed a Chalice on 1 turn 1... wtf can you do.

    Might have to start main decking Dismembers.
    I've been maindecking dismember. This really isn't that bad of a matchup.

  10. #1630
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by LewisCBR View Post
    Annoying, just 4-1'd an online league, but really wanted to 5-0 it, to show the world that Thresh is still good. :)

    My only loss was to my 3rd Eldrazi matchup, in the set of 5 matches. AND, it was a re-match. Havent had that happen before in other leagues, but i had just played that guy last night for my 3rd win. I wonder if he finished up his 5 matches and was on a new set?..

    Eldrazi is a thing, and kind of tough for this deck. I got lucky on the first two matches, i'll admit, me opponents had less than optimal hands, but couldnt luck sack out the 3rd. Thought Knot Seer on turn 2 is the real deal, especially if they are on the play and jammed a Chalice on 1 turn 1... wtf can you do.

    Might have to start main decking Dismembers.
    Daze, Wasteland, etc.. those are pretty live for a 4-mana dude for T2 :p.
    I would consider running 1-2 Loams online so you can waste them out. 4c Delver is probably better positioned so you can DRS->Wasteland->Loam T3 and waste again. I've gotten straight insta-scoops from seeing that line.

    A couple dismembers seem fine.

    Online, you may even remove a couple Stifles since they're not fetching; maybe for some smash to smithereens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  11. #1631

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    I've been maindecking dismember. This really isn't that bad of a matchup.

    I agree, to an extent, but it isnt uncommon to have to Force a Chalice/Thorn turn 1, then deal with a Thought Knot Turn 2. Hopefully you have a Daze, if not, and you dont run Dismember, you are in trouble already. Their best draws, and what i see pretty consistently, is a turn 1 prison card into turn 2 Thought Knot Seer, which takes a pretty specific hand to beat and if you are constantly bouncing your own land to Daze stuff, its pretty easy for them to get a turn 3 Smasher out, then youre simply dead.

    Its also pretty common to see the Eye of Ugin, Mimic, Mimic, Endless one on 2 hand dump on turn 1, which is a damn fast clock.

  12. #1632
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by LewisCBR View Post
    I agree, to an extent, but it isnt uncommon to have to Force a Chalice/Thorn turn 1, then deal with a Thought Knot Turn 2. Hopefully you have a Daze, if not, and you dont run Dismember, you are in trouble already. Their best draws, and what i see pretty consistently, is a turn 1 prison card into turn 2 Thought Knot Seer, which takes a pretty specific hand to beat and if you are constantly bouncing your own land to Daze stuff, its pretty easy for them to get a turn 3 Smasher out, then youre simply dead.

    Its also pretty common to see the Eye of Ugin, Mimic, Mimic, Endless one on 2 hand dump on turn 1, which is a damn fast clock.
    Rough/Tumble or Pyroclasm x2 or 3 in the side if it's that prevalent. I'm not saying the MU is suddenly amazing, but it's a stompy deck; they're made to target you; and it's winnable mostly on their own inconsistency with mediocre draws and lack of top-decking. Even you said you won 2/3 of your Eldrazi MUs that day. IMO, that sounds pretty fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  13. #1633

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hello folks, small tournament report of me playing RUG last week at my bi-weekly Friday night legacy. Nothing extraordinary but it's easier to write this than my thesis presentation. Attendance was 17 players, 5 rounds of swiss and cut to top 4. I brought the following:

    RUG 54
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Dismember
    1 Forked Bolt

    Side:

    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Submerge
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Rough//Tumble
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Destructive Revelry


    ROUND 1: Against a likable new legacy player on Reanimator. I lose the die roll. I actually know he's on either Reanimator or Merfolk, cause those are the only two legacy decks he's got (and has any familiarity with). In fact, last time we played a couple of games he seemed a bit frustrated with reanimator, so I'm definately smelling some fish. I open on a hand of fetch, fetch, stifle, delver, bolt, bolt, and mongoose, and decide to trust my instincts and keep. Of course he goes for an early Griselbrand. When he starts moving his hand towards the top of his deck to draw 7, I try my best to keep from salivating on my double bolt, but he must still catch a ravenous spasm in my features cause he stops and just passes. I waste myself to reach threshold after dropping mongoose and try to race, but end up 2 points short.

    Out: 2 goyf, removal spells
    In: Surgicals, Grafdigger, Pyroblasts, Library, Flusterstorm, and Needle (naming polluted delta, which I'm not playing).

    G2 I open on a hand of double delver and counters, and instantly relax. The delvers don't flip for like 3 straight turns, but right when it's about to get dangerous, they finally reveal a ponder and from there it's over very quickly.
    In G3 I open on a hand with Pierce, Force, Brainstorm, three lands, and some other card I don't recall (perhaps a mongoose). He entombs some insurmountable fatty on turn 1 so I keep pierce up and pass. He reanimates on turn 2, and I cast pierce. He dazes it, so I force. He forces back and that's all she wrote.

    Result: 1-2
    Total: 0-1 A classic start! Traditions are important...



    ROUND 2: against 4-Color Landstill. This guy is one of the best local magic players, but has a penchant for playing nostalgic, stylish but outdated classic decks that no longer cut it in today's ultra-competitive, dog-eat-dog legacy meta (and that's coming from someone who was on RUG delver). Seriously, his deck is basically a miracle deck without miracles and mentors, with a blast from the past motley crew of Mishras, Decrees of Justice, and Standstill instead. I shed a tear every time I'm forced to waste a gorgeous 4-seasons Mishra's Factory, or Pyroblast a Fact or Fiction, or vaporize his army of 1/1 soldiers with Sulfur Elemental. Since it won't be clean, I try to make it quick. G2 is even more brutal thanks to all the anti-blue-control stuff I'm packing in the sb.

    Result: 2-0
    Total 1-1 Beating up on a beloved, washed up has-been is just the thing for your self-esteem and popularity. Damn, RUG almost felt crushingly powerful in that game (as opposed to an incredibly fragile ballet of snake charming balancing on a thread, always one slip-up away from disaster).


    ROUND 3: the infamously slow local player on Miracles. Alright, the real deal this time. The return to the big leagues is quite traumatic. After I mull to 6, my delver gets plowed, he never misses a land drop, and lands a second counterbalance after I counter the first. When I take advantage of an opening to sneak a Tarmogoyf in, he entreats for 2 and drops 2 mentors (I dismember one in a futile last ditch-effort). To the side we go. Not only I'll have to win two games in a row, but I'll have to make it quickly enough against a very slow player, with a strategy that becomes decidedly more measured post-board.

    Out: 2 Bolt, 1 Wasteland, 1 Forked, 1 Dismember, 4 Daze
    In: Sylvan Library, Pithing Needle, 2 Pyroblast, Krosan Grip, Destructive Revelry, Sulfur Elemental, Flusterstorm, 1 Surgical Extraction

    We both mull to 6, and I keep an aggressive hand with delver, flusterstorm, stifle, some cantrip and a couple lands, while also making sure the delver will flip thanks to the scry 1. I soon find a second delver and the game shapes up in such a way that my best chance is to just to play as aggressively as possible, since I have strong pressure and soft permission that will protect it for a few turns, but not a lot of mid-late options against his lock pieces (and this is good for me, since I need a fast win in g2). I manage to keep him off balance long enough for the two delvers to get there. He manages to entreat for 1 while at 4 life but I have a bolt in hand.

    In G3, I snap keep a one-land opener with TRIPLE Delver. He moans about quite a bit even though he's got two plows and a pyroblast to take care of each of them before I can untap. The pace slows down as I cantrip to set myself up for a longer game. The focus shifts to making sure he doesn't stick a counterbalance, Jace, mentor, or some other hard-to deal with permanent, while presenting a slow and measured stream of aggression. I immediately find the all-star Sylvan Library, but I refuse to just jam it unprotected (I also have a pyroblast in hand), and first test him a bit with a Tarmogoyf, which to my delight eats the first terminus of the game (not only is this a sign of weakness on the Miracles player's part, since he's basically telling you he has no other way to deal with it, I also have the surgical extraction on top of my deck). I then land Library under Pyroblast protection, and force his top when he re-casts it after being forced to flip it during an exchange. From there on, I just I just submerge him with Library's card advantage: the surgical extraction in hand means his termini are no longer an issue, and every Tarmogoyf or Delver that he plows is another card I can draw, so I just stock up on permission for his counterbalances and other permaments and wait for the mongeese, which don't take long to show up. I finish him with a good 10 minutes left in the round.

    Result: 2-1
    Total: 2-1 Why, things are actually looking up! Just two more wins and I am guaranteed to top 4!


    ROUND 4: Eldrazi Stompy. Walking around the tables and chatting in between rounds, I had seen three different players on this foul abomination of a deck, and I just crossed my fingers that I wouldn't run into one of them. I guess that was too much to ask. I only played this match-up a couple of times on cockatrice, but from those experiences, it's as hopeless as a any matchup could possibly be. Basically, you NEED force/daze if on the play in case they have chalice, and if you're lucky enough to prevent that, they'll just start plopping down uncounterable 4/4s and 5/5s you just can't deal with. To make it worse, the pilot is a slightly annoying guy who will acknowledge your every play with an impatient and sarcastic "suuure!" or "hm-mh" and nod. He beat me last time and I'm not looking forward to getting smashed again.
    My hand in G1 is about as I good as I can get in this matchup, with Fow, cantrip, lands, a wasteland, a tarmogoyf and a bolt. I lose the roll and I force the predictable turn 1 chalice (cast off a City of traitors, which is good news cause it means he will wasteland himself next turn, making my own wasteland that much better). On turn 2, he taps city of traitors, bins it for some other land, and casts a 3/3 endless one, which eats my eot bolt (everything's falling into place beautifully). I deploy my goyf and pass. He makes his land drop, casts mimic and ships it back. I shuffle a ponder, land the Goose and get to work with Tamogoyf, waiting for a juicier, 2-mana land for my waste. Next turn, he drops a Thought Knot seer and takes a second tarmogoyf out of my hand, seeing the wasteland but little else of value. I untap and draw daze, so I decide to waste his cavern of souls instead, thinking that I might be able to snag something good with it since he won't expect it, and that taking risks is necessary in a matchup as bad as this. Sure enough, he taps out to jam a Reality Smasher, and makes a sound and a face like an imp splashed by holy water when I show him the providential daze. I suddenrly realize that I really might win this game, but my hopes are dashed when he casts a dominating Endbringer, for which I have no hail-mary counterspell this time. In desperate attempt to somehow finish him before his huge monsters take over the game, I send my three creatures (2 goyfs and a goose) against his blockers, knowing that the trades won't be favorable, but that at least I'll get one more hit in, dropping him ever closer to bolt range. Predictably, he blocks a Tarmogoyf with the Endbringer, and gobbles the Goose with the seer. And then, I remember about the turn 1 chalice. You see, it's hidden at the bottom of his graveyard, and all this time we had been playing as if my Tarmogoyfs were 4/5s. But they're actually 5/6s. And what better time for both of us to find out that when he's just blocked one with his 5/5? Alright, there might have been a better time for him, but you get my point... Turns out goyf is a beast against Eldrazi if you can counter one of their artifacts. And so, game 1 is stolen with an incredible reversal of fortune. Although it's nice to get one in, it was such a miraculous game in so many ways that I don't dare expect anything but a quick and painful annihilation in the next two matches.

    SB: honestly, half of my maindeck is worth next to nothing here, but, since I hardly have anything to side in, I just limit myself to taking out the worst of it, namely the spell pierces and a few dazes on the draw (or perhaps the gitaxian probes, I can't remember). In come the disenchant effects and a very dubious copy of sylvan library (soo much time to durdle with it while getting smashed for 15 a turn, right?).

    In g2, I mull to 6 and keep a one-lander with delver. He wastes me immediately, which is, in my opinion, a mistake, since he doesn't know that I have no other lands, and could be timewalking himself since he has no other play for the turn. However, it pays off cause I never draw another land. He starts dropping Eldrazi and quickly tears me to pieces. The funny thing is, he never finds a way to deal with Delver, and the turn 1 insect gets him down to a dangerous 5 before I die.

    My g3 hand is the stone cold nuts, with double wasteland, force, pitch, land and goose. I drop the goose and force his chalice. Waste him twice consecutively, while I draw a third wasteland. With his last sol land, he drops a ratchet bomb and passes. I ponder and shuffle, waste him, get the last goose hit in, and pass, my only land tapped. He charges the bomb eot, untaps, draws (no land) and... passes! I can't believe he's giving me this HUGE opening! Now, I don't have a stifle in hand, so I just untap and calmly, deliberately, announce my draw. No response, just one of those annoying "suuure!". I draw: it's a STIFLE! I almost rub one off right there and then! Goose marches in. He triggers the bomb. It -fucking- fizzles, and the presumptuous Eldrazi get munched to bits by a cute, furry little mammal!

    Result: 2-1
    Total 3-1 An epic Cinderella story and victory for the ages! I don't think anyone ever found religion while playing magic, but this was a truly miraculous set of games. So many lucky breaks! The surprise buttseks Daze. The sneaky Ubergoyfs. The HOLY MIRACLED Stifle! I rise from the table with a huge grin on my face. My opponent is so furious he doesn't offer me a chance to shake hands, and I don't press him for one. No matter what happens during the rest of the tournament, I'll walk out of there smiling!

    It turns out, there isn't a rest of the tournament for me. In round 4, I get matched up against another Eldrazi Stompy player. After learning that the other top tables are going to play their games, I convince my opponent to ID our match, which he accepts since his rating is higher than mine (we're 4th and 5th respectively). Since there are multiple possible combinations of results that would get me into top 4, I'd rather hope for a lucky break than face the insurmountable odds once again. It turns out my luck for the night has finally run out, and I end up 5th on rating, just out of top 4, although by a smaller margin than before the round.

    ROUND 4: ID
    Total: 3-1-1

    And so, yet another tournament where I lose the first round, end up x-1, and get screwed on rating. Whatever, I still had fun, and I am still convinced that ID'ing in round 5 was the right choice. Eldrazi Stompy is just a nightmare MU for this deck, I doubt I'll ever win another tournament round with RUG against it. In fact, as much as I love RUG, I don't think I'm bringing it back into any competitive tournament as long as Eldrazi is a significant part of the meta. Getting locked out by Countertop, manascrewed by Thalia + Port, crushed by SFM, neutralized by opposing Tarmogoyfs, foiled by Decays, frustrated by Shamans, wastelanded into oblivion by Loam decks; all of those things I had come to accept - and even cherish - as a RUG player, as they make those games you manage to steal thanks to efficiency and finesse that much more rewarding. But getting absolutely shat on by a retard-proof modern stompy deck is just too much, and more than an old and storied archetype like this one deserves to suffer.

    I hope you guys enjoyed the report: as always, writing it took me longer than I had originally hoped, but I had a few laughs here and there looking back at the improbable situations, so I can't complain. Cheers!

  14. #1634

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Awesome report, Luca. Very well written :)

    Getting locked out by Countertop, manascrewed by Thalia + Port, crushed by SFM, neutralized by opposing Tarmogoyfs, foiled by Decays, frustrated by Shamans, wastelanded into oblivion by Loam decks; all of those things I had come to accept - and even cherish - as a RUG player, as they make those games you manage to steal thanks to efficiency and finesse that much more rewarding. But getting absolutely shat on by a retard-proof modern stompy deck is just too much, and more than an old and storied archetype like this one deserves to suffer.
    I should frame this --^

  15. #1635
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by echofish View Post
    Awesome report, Luca. Very well written :)
    I should frame this --^
    +1, i had fun reading that report, thanks Luca!

    vs Eldrazi, it really is tough..even when youre holding multiple delvers that can make an unfavorable match for us winnable, a turn1 chalice for 1 is always a major concern for you to have atleast a fow in our opening. goyf is big here.. and if it becomes rampant in my meta, i might bring back 2 copies of tarfires alongside 2 price progress in the sides.
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  16. #1636

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca Grease View Post
    I just untap and calmly, deliberately, announce my draw. No response, just one of those annoying "suuure!". I draw: it's a STIFLE! I almost rub one off right there and then! Goose marches in. He triggers the bomb. It -fucking- fizzles, and the presumptuous Eldrazi get munched to bits by a cute, furry little mammal!

    Haha, good stuff, great report. He deserved that top deck by trying to get cute.

  17. #1637

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by haloquaero View Post
    Why would you ponder here and not landing delver? searching for counter backup to save it from being removed?
    My wires got crossed here, with the different scenarios being presented. I just reread the situation. Wasteland or Delver, not ponder. But I usually don't wasteland on the draw unless I don't have anything else going on. Its just so much better to waste someone when you have a delver and a land.

  18. #1638
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    My wires got crossed here, with the different scenarios being presented. I just reread the situation. Wasteland or Delver, not ponder. But I usually don't wasteland on the draw unless I don't have anything else going on. Its just so much better to waste someone when you have a delver and a land.
    The problem is that you suspect they have a plow in hand; which is precisely why I thought wasting T1 was good. Yeah, they could plow and then you get another turn to ponder and maybe land a second threat or do Waste + something; but my thinking was: "From the miracles perspective, assuming they have Plow + CB; just jamming CB seems good. You can take 3, Plow their dude, and sit under a CB to get things established."
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  19. #1639

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    The problem is that you suspect they have a plow in hand; which is precisely why I thought wasting T1 was good. Yeah, they could plow and then you get another turn to ponder and maybe land a second threat or do Waste + something; but my thinking was: "From the miracles perspective, assuming they have Plow + CB; just jamming CB seems good. You can take 3, Plow their dude, and sit under a CB to get things established."
    Yes but they have no top in play. Game 1 against miracles I try to end the game as fast as possible. If Delver gets plowed then so be it, at least it was not a tarmogoyf. Also, there were only 6 cards specified and he is on the draw, so there are 2 more cards we don't know about. You can paralyze yourself about what your opponent might have and never make a play.

  20. #1640

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    This is report on SC Open in Philly 2/27

    Quick Preview leading up. I have been a stalker of this forum for better part of 4 years but this is my first post. Been playing rug delver (canadian thresh) since Volcanic Islands were about 35 bucks. (at the M10 Sealed event). During the Treasure cruise and DTT I did get distracted by the pyromancer, but I have come back the light side.

    I had a baby in August so my last paper magic event was eternal weekend where I did side events since I did not want committed to a long event with a 9 month pregnant wife. During her pregnancy I did not get to play the usually magic events. So it was great to be out, played great players all day long. Very nice, to my opponents thanks for chats.

    Colorless Eldrazi

    Match 1:

    Best match of the day for me..so rug delver on the draw beat a turn 1 chalice twice both on a mulligan when my opponent was not! Lost the die roll.

    G1: Tarmogoyf, daze and force did work. Dismember removed any hope. My opponent did a make mistake saying that his cavern made a colorless so I could force (while paying one through thorn.

    G2: More of game 1, opponent plays chalice, thorn thorn, on the second thorn I domb him price of progress for 8, to put let the goyf make short work. Again, daze and force and dismember were all stars. Props to goose and ponder to going in void to feed the the goyf


    1-0

    Match 2:

    bUrg Delver

    I dont remember this one particularly well, I lost the roll.

    G1: Early pressure, Rug Delver thingss,waster, and spell pierce. Bolting shamans, dead openent with a lot of cards in his hand.

    I didnt see a pyromancer, but I brought in rough anyway.

    G2: stifles, wastes do their job backed by I think mongooses.

    2-0

    Match 3:

    Grixis pyromancer(seemed to be only three color, trop for pyromancer). Lost the die roll.

    G1: Goose into stifles, daze and wasteland puts opponent behind on lands, trying to play catch up. A goyf comes in to help finish the job. He does play zombie Fish but to late as a goose gets eaten but a bolt finished the job.

    G2: Delver, goyf back by rough and tumble makes short work. I cash in REBs as early as possible. Funny he went pyromancer, ponder, probe and saw a hand that has spell pierce, daze and rough and tumble, he all but shrunk in his seat.

    Match 4:
    Ant. Lost the die roll. Was not expecting a ton of ant due to eldarzi and challice. My deck is a little softer than normal. I usually play 4 spell pierce and some probes, but had to make room for main deck dismembers.

    G1: Opening was double force stifle goose goyf probe and land. I thought a pretty solid hand, but he opened up duress takes force, the therapy naming force and probe that didnt find anymore interaction, he was a turn from dieing but that doesnt help much.

    G2: So I open this to you. My hand was 1 ponder, 1 bs, 2 stifle, 2 spell pierce and land. No pressure, so I shipped it. What do you think ? My next set was goose, goyf, reb, peirce and land. I reb his first ponder, I pierce his bs, but he pays with dark ritual, he kills me turn 3.

    Match 5:

    Mono Black Reanimator/Dark Depths. This dude mulled ALOT, I almost thought he was on dredge. Lost the die roll.

    G1 : delvers pressure, spell pierce prevent him from TS/Duress me and seeing my force. Pretty straight forward. He goes to exhume Grisselbrand but force has him.

    Now at this time I didnt see the Dark Depths package and thought he was on tinfins. So didnt bring optimal side board

    G2: I mulled to 4(didnt see a single land), my 4 were force, stifle, delver land...not bad. I dtile stifle 3 hexmage triggers! Start to pressure him but the thespian stage gets me in the end. I thought about playing a pithing needing naming thespian sage, but i didnt …. figuring I could but at this point I really wanted to BS it away since he could go hexmage or just entomb something

    G3: Delvers, and goyfs backed up by forces and stifles makes quick work.


    Match 6

    Jeskai Delver, never had a kid get time to go the bath room before...that was a first. So remember how I said I haven't gone out and played in over 6 months and more than 3 times in last year. I really felt it. Oh and I lost the roll.

    G1: classic delver mirror wasteland back and forth while killing each other's threats. I let a goyf get killed by bolt, I should of waited on, but eventually Goose gets him.

    G2: I really mis played this one, and my brain stopped working. I had pressure, but decided to REB a unflipped delver when I had a goose and goyf, told myself mana efficiency at the time blah. But he plowed my goyf and we had a counter war over a tnn, that stalled the board out for him to eventually land a SFM into Jitte. Never found the answers for jitte. If I kept the REB I am pretty sure I win that war because I was left with 2 bolts in my hand and red mana untapped.

    G3: Brain is dead at this point. I am sure I made many misplays. I even mulled but goose pressured him down until 5, but he eventually stabilized. Afterwords my brother pointed out a possible winning line that would have giving me handful of outs. So since brain was done I knew it was time to go eat some food with my brothers.


    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Dismember
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Ponder
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Stifle
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Forked bolt
    4 Wasteland
    4 Force of Will
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Lightning Bolt

    Sideboard
    1 Winter Orb (with the lack of miracles and lands this a bad addition)
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Rough //tumble Great!)
    1 Ancient Grudge (should have been 2)
    1 Life from the Loam (brought it in a lot but never drew it)
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Fluster Storm
    2 REB
    1 Krosan Grip (meh distructive thingy next time)
    2 Price of progress (when good, good but I dont no if I brought it in enough, kinda of a nombo with Life and wastes)
    1 Surgical

    So please comment on the deck and the board. And my mis plays. I hope to start to add more rather then just stealing.

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