Has anyone considered running some number of Dig Through Time or other cards that interact with, return from, or play from the graveyard? If one were to up the Looter count to 4 it seems you could be filling up your yard at a reasonably quick pace and might be able to profit from doing so.
Then we're at risk of hurting ourselves with RIP (and being vulnerable to it), but since we're looting anyhow I just thought I'd mention it.
I'm currently putting the deck together and plan to take it to the next legacy tournament here in Oslo. Before getting the last cards I need I'm just curious about whether there's been any updates to the list as played by Bahra or if anyone else have any recommendations based on experience with the deck. Also, I wonder if there are any particularly bad matchups I need to know about and whether or not it's worth the effort to shore them up if they're popular around here.
Well, that went beyond expectations. My list was very similar to the one in the OP; The MD was +1 Mother of Runes, +1 Karakas, +1Windswept Heath, -1 Judge's Familiar, -1 Tundra, -1 Flooded Strand. Th fetchland switch was simply due to vanity; I preferred to play a Heath over a Strand rather then play 3 original Strands and a new one. Silly, I know. The Mom over Familiar was due to me not finding another copy of Familiar before the tournament started. The sideboard was also a bit tweaked, but very similar.
In round 1, I faced Deathblade. I knew this because I knew the player and I'd just lent him a Tropical Island so he'd have green mana for his DRS.
In game 1, I managed to draw out some removal, counter his essential spells and land some threats. He struggled to find a second source of blue mana, which kept Jace off the table long enough for him to be irrelevant when he did. IIRC, being on the draw, I took out my Dazes for Pithing Needle, Krosan Grips and Council's Judgment. However, game two was really a non-game as he stopped on two mana and never got anything going while I curved out with Edric and started drawing five cards per turn. In the end, his only out was to play Tasigur and hope I wouldn't realize I could simply bounce it with Karakas and kill him. Suffice to say I did and did.
In the second round, I faced UG Infect. The player was rather new to legacy, and had started the tournament with a bye. Game one was close, but I managed to keep his threats in check until I could suit someone up with Sword or Jitte (can't remember which one) and put the game out of his reach. I took out Batterskull and some Mother of Runes for Council's Judgment, Krosan Grip and possibly something more. In game 2, I kept Karakas, Wasteland, SFM, Brainstorm, Edric and 2x Force. The Forces kept him in check until I could draw another land, play SFM and get some equipped beats going. By this point his resources were pretty much depleted, and I remained in control until I could deal the last points of damage.
And now for the real challenge: An experienced miracles player. In game one I managed to resolve SFM getting SoFI, and then resolve more threats than he could answer. Eventually he succumbed. I sided in Needle, Grip, Judgment and Envelop for StP and Jitte. Again, I managed to land SoFI, which let me pressure him effectively with just a handful of creatures. At one point, he played something I couldn't let resolve (either something bad for me or a counter for something good for me), but my only counters were double Daze and he had two untapped lands. Fetchlands. Enter Wasteland; with his spell on the stack I wasted one of his fetches. Naturally, he activates it in response. In response to that, I Daze and then Daze again when he fetches and pays. In the end, I untap with lethal on board; he plays Clique and targets himself to miracle Terminus. I Envelop and it's over.
In the last round I face a fairly experienced RUG Delver player. In game 1 I keep Trop, Misty, Mom and some other stuff on the draw. I fetch Tundra and play Mom. He kills (or counters) her and wastes the Tundra. I play the Trop, he cantrips into another Wasteland and destroys it. I don't draw enough lands to stabilize in time and the first game loss of the day is a fact. I side out my Forces for RiP and some other stuff. Game 2 is practically the opposite; I pretty much nut draw him out of the game. I switch the sideboarding around a bit, taking in 2x Force for 2x Daze. In game 3 I'm about to outclass his Goyf with SFM when he lands Grim Lavamancer. Before I can get anyone equipped, he starts picking my team apart and the goyf starts taking chunks out of my life total. Just as I'm about to fall into burn range, the top of my deck delivers a Brainstorm. Which delivers Rest in Peace. He can't find a counter, and since the mancer is all out of lava all of a sudden it's GG when I land a creature.
So, 4-0 in matches, 8-1 in games. I like this deck.
I took the deck out for another spin this Friday in a trial for the Swedish Championship in Legacy. MD was the one in OP -1 Stoneforge Mystic +1 Qasali Pridemage. I never had a problem finding my equipment and several times had good use of a MD Artifact/Enchantment hate.
SB:
1 Containment Priest (would've had more but only have 1)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Detention Sphere
1 Pithing Needle
2 Council's Judgment
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
Round 1: Junk Depths
Game 1 was rough, he destroyed my Batterskull and my Sword, got a Marit Lage and at one point a 14/14 Scavenging Ooze. Thankfully I had plows for both of them due to Looter il-Kor and Edric drawing me a bunch of cards. I ended up having about 10 cards left in my library before I managed to get the kill
Game 2 I managed to get a good board presence early but game 1 had taken so long that we went to time
1-0, 1-0 in games
Round 2: Miracles
Game 1 he got stuck on too few lands and I stuck a Hierarch and a Batterskull. No issues.
Game 2 he managed to Terminus me and get a Counterbalance up. Sadly he missed my Stoneforge and the subsequent Batterskull.
2-0, 3-0 in games
Round 3: UR Delver
Game 1 I try to do what the deck wants to do, he shut me down and got pyromancer beats going, easy win for him.
Game 2 I mull to 5 due to no lands. turn 1 Wasteland is met by his wasteland, my fetch is met by Stifle. Easy win for him
2-1, 3-2 in games
Round 4:
Due to the tournament being small we could draw this round and still make top-8. We didn't play it out as my opponent was famished.
Quarter-finals: Reanimator
Game 1 I FoW'd a turn 1 Entomb and he didn't manage to get anything into the graveyard with his Careful Studies.
Game 2 Started out shaky for me, I got some beats in, he reanimated a Griselbrand who went out to the farm. I had a great hand of 2 Flusterstorms and 1 Spell Pierce for any other shenanigans he'd be up to. He managed to reanimate another Griselbrand which put him at 1 life, on my turn I Council's Judgmented him and he couldn't stop my counters.
3-1, 5-2 in games
Semi-finals: Omnitell
Game 1: I got two Judge's Familiar, a Hierarch and a Jitte on the table before I - like the pro I am - shuffled my hand into my library when fetching a Tundra. Got a warning from the Judge for that play. The familiars were critical to stopping his combo this game.
Game 2: He got stuck on lands even after digging deep, always a bummer to win those games since you know exactly how shit it feels when your deck just doesn't come together (see game 2 against UR Delver)
4-1, 7-2 in games
Finals: Elves
I was very happy about facing elves in the finals as the other deck was the same UR Delver that dismantled me in the Swiss rounds.
Game 1: I get a Jitte going together with Wastelands to impede his mana, this proved successful, I managed to dismantle him this game. Hierarch was a critical turn 1 play to get the ramp necessary to be able to wasteland him as much as I did.
Game 2: He obliterates me as Elves is wont to do, no chance.
Game 3: I stick a turn 2 TNN and get the beats going, keep a FoW+Blue card in my hands against his terrifying shenanigans. He durdles a bit with Elvish Visionary and Wirewood Symbiote, drawing a bunch of cards. I contemplated countering the Visionary the first time he played it but decided against it, bad call?
Anyway, I get him down to 4 life, thus prompting him to do SOMETHING for his next turn. He glimpses, I went deep into the tank on this one, eventually figuring that if I countered it and he had Natural Order I'd be screwed as he had a sufficient amount of creatures to kill me with Craterhoof Behemoth whereas a Glimpse turn CAN brick. So I let it pass and watched as a thousand nations of the elvish empire descended upon me.
After the first glimpse came a second, many cards were drawn. He did however not manage to go infinite and with 2 mana in the pool and no other sources left he tried to Crop Rotation. At this point I decided to use my Force of Will, hoping to stop the madness and get the win.
It turned out to be the correct play. Had I not forced he'd have gotten a Cradle and hardcast a Behemoth and wiped me off the map. A very stressful turn!
5-1, 9-3 in games
I won a Scrubland and a bye to the SC in Legacy later this year, can't complain!
The deck performed very well, Judge's Familiar was amazing against Omni-Tell, Looter against Creature-based decks and Edric against most everything! I was very happy with 3 Stoneforge Mystic and 1 Qasali, being a deck that plays 3 equipments I never had issues finding one. Not super happy with Mother of Runes, she often fell flat in this tournament. Suggestions on 1-drops to exchange her with?
Maybe just add another Birds and another True-Name Nemesis? Then you have 5 mana-dorks for your would be 6 two-drops, and have two more great targets for all that equipment. Heck, maybe even add a Birds, just the Qasali, and slap in x2 Trygon Predator?
I think I might actually try -2 Mother of Runes, +1 Bird +1 Trygon! Another evasive beater that can wreck his shit sounds enticing.Originally Posted by Kanti
You could've just FoW'd the Craterhoof?
he had two, so letting him get the cradle with the Crop Rotation would've given him 17 mana and ample time to find the second one.
Yay. I honestly opened this thread up, read through it a little, and read someone running Trygons. Seeing as you said you slapped in Qasali to help deal with artifacts/enchantments I figured I'd suggest it, especially as I never like to run just one way to deal with problem permanents in my decks, but two to three ways. Birds also just seemed amazing with all the Swords, and can even work with Jitte if you are running 4-5 exalted critters. Some number of Ponders doesn't seem bad either.
Glad to see people are still playing this deck and are doing well.
I plan to get back to this deck soon, and I will probably do a few streams with it as well.
If you're unhappy with Mother of Runes I suggest just running a couple Ponder instead, it's a very good card in this deck still although we do want to spend our first few turns setting up with playing creatures.
BBD has recently been playing an admittedly flawed four-color Collected Company deck. Is there any possibility that Collected Company could be a good fit in this deck? Potential cuts being Batterskull and some number of Forces/Dazes? Probably need to cut 4-6 non creature spells to add 3-4 CCs and 1-2 creatures. Or is the juice just not worth the squeeze?
Hey, I just discovered this thread and I absolutely love your work Bahra from what I've been reading so far.
I've been trying to develop a fun and viable Fish deck since 2013, with this list (before TNN was released)
Main differences with yours being use of Aether Vial instead of Hierarch to accelerate the board (and thus being able to be UW), and Ninja to exploit the EOT triggers and gain CA instead of Edric.Code:2 Geist of Saint Traft 4 Mother of Runes 4 Ninja of the Deep Hours 3 Snapcaster Mage 4 Stoneforge Mystic 2 Vendilion Clique 4 AEther Vial 1 Batterskull 4 Brainstorm 4 Force of Will 1 Sword of Fire and Ice 4 Swords to Plowshares 1 Umezawa's Jitte 2 Arid Mesa 1 Eiganjo Castle 4 Flooded Strand 2 Island 2 Karakas 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Plains 4 Tundra 4 Wasteland
I've experimented with a lot of other builds, like Bant with Edric (very similar to yours, but still with Vial instead of Hierarch) but in the end I've always gone back to UW since I think the EOT creatures + Ninja of the Deep Hours is an angle still worth exploring. Stoneforge Mystic and Snapcaster Mage all benefit greatly from the interaction.
One very interesting build I've toyed with is using Spellstutter Sprite as main countermagic (with the help of Ninja + Vials) with sideboard FoW's, allowing for Thalia in the maindeck, thus being able to fit more creatures in the deck. It makes for a style quite similar to Death and Taxes.
I've been trying a version with a light black splash for DRS activation and have been experimenting with tossing in one or two Baleful Strix as well. Adding some Thoughtseize to the board as general answers and seeing hands for Meddling Mage also in board. Trying a couple of Armageddon in the board as well since we run dorks, and if our game plan is going even remotely according to plan we should be able to draw out of our land loss well before our opponent. The mana base can be a little awkward Underground Sea might be a better move than Scrubland, but Karakas and Cavern of Souls can just be so good (naming Rogue is surprisingly decent in this deck).
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4 Judge's Familiar
2 Looter il-Kor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Baleful Strix
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Scrubland
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Armageddon
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Meddling Mage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thoughtseize
Cool, Spellstutter Sprite is actually not a bad card, I definitely would like to try that out. I don't know about the ninja though, that's probably too much of a mana investment. Ęther Vial and Thalia seems like they could work as well. I have a ton of different Noble Fish decklists in mind right now but last night I played a DE with the stock list. I went 3-1 and would've 4-0'd if not for misclicking on a Mother of Runes activation, that was rough. I wouldn't have had a chance vs. BUG without Rest In Peace, and I think that card is just so good so it's hard for me to give it up in the versions I'm considering.
R1: Infect 2-1
R2: ANT 2-0
R3: Miracles 2-1
R4: Shardless BUG 1-2 misclick
I think your deck list is a little all over the place. Sygg, River Cutthroat is not a card I want to play, especially when we're often just attacking for 1 or 2 in the air. 2 Noble Hierarch 2 Deathrite Shaman? You want 4 of either one or both might even be a consideration. 3 Stoneforge Mystic? Even if the deck is highly synergy based, you absolutely want 4 copies of the best 2 drop ever printed.
When it comes into play, it's like it had Haste, Vigilance AND a one-shot Edric in play.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
What kind of variants are you thinking of?
I got a 1/2 place today with the following list, it's basically a Death and Taxes shell with a lot of blue. And some sideboard countermagic! Thought you guys might be interested:
Detailed explanation of the deck and stuff is already in the MTGS DnT thread so I won't repeat it: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...?comment=12131Code:4 Mother of Runes 4 Stoneforge Mystic 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 3 Meddling Mage 2 Phyrexian Revoker 3 True-Name Nemesis 3 Vendilion Clique 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos 2 Geist of Saint Traft 4 Aether Vial 4 Swords to Plowshares 1 Batterskull 1 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Sword of Fire and Ice 4 Tundra 4 Flooded Strand 1 Misty Rainforest 1 Plains 1 Island 4 Seachrome Coast 1 Cavern of Souls 4 Wasteland 3 Karakas Sideboard 2 Rest in peace 1 Propaganda 2 Containment Priest 2 Ethersworn Canonist 1 Pithing Needle 2 Flusterstorm 1 Disenchant 2 Leonin Relic-Warder 1 Meddling Mage 1 Engineered Explosives
Tons of fun to play!
I played a similar deck where I had Spirit of the Labyrinth mainboard in order to lock my opponent out with Karakas and Clique. I would definitely favor Spirit over Meddling Mage as a mainboard card. -1/-1 effects hit this deck pretty hard though. Daze isn't half bad in this shell either.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Clique and SotL certainly looks like a nice interaction, I might try it sometime. But as you said, one of the main rules you must obey when building this kind of decks is to always try to reduce your exposure to sweepers and other hard to deal with removal. That's why one of my original choices, Spellstutter Sprite, had to be cut, aside from other reasons. Meddling Mage is pretty good against blue decks mainly, and a very large chunk of the meta is composed of those decks. Being able to block Swords to Plowshares against Patriot or Miracles will pave you the way to a win very easily without needing much complicated setup, that's one of the reasons I like Pikula so much, just throw a roadblock on the opponent's face and deal the 20 damage you need to win
I just revised the front page. Should be more like a "primer" now. I will continue to add things, especially once I pick up the deck again shortly (probably will play it a lot AFTER GP Lille where I'm playing D&T).
If you have anything to add please let me know. Preferably through a PM as I would not like to clog up the thread with discussions about how to set up the front page.
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