I've been really liking my LD build quite a bit. Has anyone been playing around with Winter Orbs in the main as well?
Winter Orb is really painful against Eldrazi and Grixis Delver which there are a lot of so I'm not sure it that's viable. In a control-meta it's a good call for sure though.
I would allways play Mongoose instead of Goyf if there weren't any tentacle Monsters with Power X/4 :(
i feel with this creature configuration you cant win against Eldrazi. Maybe the full set of Strixes in the Sideboard can change things, just an idea
4 TarmogoyfOriginally Posted by Agrippa91
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tombstalker
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Sinkhole
2 Winter Orb
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
//SIDE//
2 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
2 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
Is what I'm trying.
Real streamlined, I like it. Winter Orb? And Sinkhole? On boy.
Also, I tried to PM you but it says your box is full.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Cleared. It's really slick and I love Beta Winter Orbs next to Beta Sinks with Beta duals.
Still have summer basics?
This deck doesn't play basics, you silly goose. But yes, still pimping, then proceeding to go 3-1 then drop to go do sunset driving.
All I got is FBB Orbs and FBB duals, but perhaps I will grade to Beta 'holes, Unlimited ones are kind of icky when the whole deck is BB.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Would anyone be interested in a mini tournament report of my thoughts/experiences piloting the Stifle/Mongoose BUG Delver deck in the Baltimore Legacy Classic?
Definitely! I'm most curious about how well Mongoose performed. Was there much tension between it and Deathrite? Was its 3/3 body sufficient with all the Anglers around? And how was Painful Truths alongside Winter Orb in the sideboard? Anything you'd change about the list?
Yep, I wanna see.
Definitely. I tried your list at my local with some minor changes (ending 2-2):
MD: -1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Sylvan Library
SB: -1 Surgical Extraction, -1 Winter Orb, +1 Invasive Surgery, +1 Grafdigger's Cage
TEAM MtG Berlin
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
I'm going to try Stifles over the Sinkholes to do a bit more duty on Miracles, but by far, Winter Orb is the nutter butters there.
I've always found this strange. If I'm taking your land, I don't care how many cards you have in hand.
Have played Stifle + Sinkhole with 2-3 Snapcaster before, lots of fun with a cute Dreadnought from time to time. MD Winters Orbs is a step beyond my testing. Favourite SB card, but MB is a definite statement of intent.
Totally agree, I don't like these cards in the same deck bar something like Pox.
I'm also not big on Sinkhole and Stifle together as there's too much tension between being proactive and reactive, but at least they're focused on the same goal.
Here is my mini tournament report of my T8 finish with the Miracle-Slayer BUG Delver deck in the SCG Baltimore Legacy Classic (120 players, 7 rounds of swiss). The list can be found here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=105818
I didn't take extensive notes on my matchups, so I am going by memory here. Please excuse my vague descriptions.
Round 1 | U/G Infect | Games: 2-1 | Record: 1-0 | SB Plan:+2 Disfigure, +2 Go for the Throat, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Flusterstorm; -4 Stifle, -2 Force of Will
Game 1: I was able to control my opponent's board with the 6 MD removal spells and 4 Wasteland. I was at something like 3 infect and had my opponent dead in two attacks if I sent the team. I did and my opponent drew Become Immense for the dagger win the very next turn.
Game 2: This matchup is much easier after sideboarding. My plan post-board is to use my 10 removal spells to keep the board clear and allow my attackers to get there; pretty simple. The plan went smoothly this game and he never had a relevant density of threats.
Game 3: This game was very interesting. The first turn my opponent played fetchland then passed. I knew he had Stifle, so I just played a fetchland and passed back. He played another fetchland and passed back to me. On my second turn, I played a second fetchland and cracked it, knowing he would crack to attempt to Stifle. He did so, and I proceeded with my second fetchland and he Stifled that one too! I was left with two Wastelands and some other uncastable cards. This proved to be a blessing because Wasteland was able to hold off his Inkmoths. I eventually drew some lands and was able to neatly take care of his board and deploy some threats. He built up a hand with Berserk + pump spells and went all in on it, but I had enough free counters and a Dismember to take care of his one infecter, and that sealed the game.
Round 2 | RUG Lands | Games: 2-1 | Record: 2-0 | SB Plan: +3 Surgical Extraction, +2 Winter Orb, +1 Pitihing Needle; -4 Daze, -2 Dismember
Game 1: I played some fast threats and used my free counters to keep him off doing relevant things for long enough to get the win. Nimble Mongoose was an all-star.
Game 2: He double Engineered Explosives me on back-to-back turns, and has me on the backfoot with Tireless Trackers and the mana restriction plan, then he drops a Trinisphere before I scoop. Surgical Extractions were rotting in my hand the whole game.
Game 3: I get the early Deathrite and Wasteland a Tabernacle to keep my mana flowing. Nimble Mongoose plinks away some damage, while I counter his haymakers. He taps out for something, and I drop the Winter Orb to put the stamp on the game.
Round 3 | Esper Deathblade | Games: 2-0 | Record: 3-0 | SB Plan: +2 Painful Truths, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Disfigure; -4 Force of Will
Games 1 & 2: These games played out very similarly. I kept him off critical mana with Stifle and Wasteland and countered his overcosted removal (Vindicate) with my free spells. In other words, I tempo'd my opponent out, and did the "RUG Delver" thing.
Round 4 | ANT | Games: 2-1 | Record: 4-0 | SB Plan: +2 Thoughtseize, +3 Surgical Extraction, +1 Flusterstorm; -4 Abrupt Decay, -2 Dismember
Game 1: I kept an incredible hand against any fair deck. Turn 1 Deathrite into Delver + double Mongoose. Unfortunately I died soon on Turn 3 because that hand is garbage against combo.
Game 2: Delver + wall of counters + Surgical Extraction on Infernal Tutor
Game 3: Kept a no Force of Will hand with plenty of other disruption. My opponent began to go off but miscounted his mana and blew half his hand on turn 1. I untapped, played a fetch and passed. We played draw go, with my Stifling some fetchlands until I found another land and dropped a threat. It was pretty straightforward after that.
Round 5 | D&T | Games: 0-2 | Record: 4-1 | SB Plan (spoiler, it doesn't matter, the matchup is very bad): +2 Disfigure, +2 Go for the Throat, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Thoughtseize, -4 Stifle, -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Force of Will
Game 1: He deals with my early threats and doesn't care about Mongoose. Mirran Crusader makes short work of me.
Game 2: I almost begin to stabilize then my opponent draws Batterskull into Mirran Crusader into Rest in Peace. I nearly vomited just writing that last sentence.
Round 6 | Meathooks (CounterSlivers) | Games: 2-0 | Record 5-1 | SB Plan (On draw): +2 Disfigure, +2 Go for the Throat, -2 Spell Pierce, -2 Daze
Game 1: Stifle + Wasteland + double Delver while I counter anything my opponent tries to get going.
Game 2: Stifle + Wasteland + Deathrite + Delver while I counter anything my opponent tries to get going.
I actually think this matchup is very bad for Delver, but I got some sweet draws, and my opponent definitely let me know that! I generally will snap counter anything my opponent lets me in this matchup because Cavern of Souls makes your permission look pretty dumb. I am really only scared of Aether Vial and Crystalline Sliver in this matchup. Everything else, including Hibernation Sliver, plays into our tempo gameplan. In any case, I was glad to put this one behind me.
Round 7 | Sneak & Show/Omnitell mashup | Games: 2-0 | Record 6-1 | SB Plan: +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Pithing Neede, -2 Abrupt Decay, -2 Dismember (Keep two Decay for Blood Moon)
Game 1: A quick clock and the combination of Stifle/Wasteland kept my opponent from getting any real traction.
Game 2: My opponent slams a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy on turn 2, and starts to churn some cards. I try to keep him off flipping it by using Deathrite activations for a bit before a counter war makes that impossible. Fortunately, my opponent activated BEFORE we had our counter war, and I was able to Brainstorm into Pithing Needle to turn the Jace into a vanilla 0/2 (kind of annoying against non-loose Mongoose). I eventually draw into Delver and keep up enough counter magic to close out the game.
Quarterfinals | D&T | Games: 0-2 | Record: 6-2 | SB Plan: +2 Disfigure, +2 Go for the Throat, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Thoughtseize, -4 Stifle, -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Force of Will
Game 1: Mirran Crusader
Game 2: Mirran Crusader + Umezawa's Jitte
I ended swiss in 2nd place, and finished 6th overall. I didn't get to play against Miracles at all, which was kind of annoying. I did, however, play the Lands matchup, and our boarding plan for that deck is quite punishing. Nimble Mongoose was incredible all day long. Stifle + Wasteland is extremely strong in a shell where 12 of your 14 threats cost 1 to cast. This deck cantrips in the early turns considerably well, especially against combo, where you can almost always find a threat AND deploy it in the same turn.
One of the potential criticisms I always here when folks evaluate this list is that Deathrite and Mongoose are a "non-bo." I never had this issue except against Death & Taxes, but I feel that matchup is as bad as it could be and the additional anti-synergy isn't the difference maker.
I felt like the sideboard had a very nice mix of cards to combat the decks I saw. We even had a plan for Death & Taxes. Unfortunately, this deck cannot beat Mirran Crusader, and although Delver is our best threat, it has a HUGE target on its back that reads "Swords me!" Between Aether Vial, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Mirran Crusader, and Stoneforge Mystic, there just aren't enough Abrupt Decays in the world. Abrupt Decay is also terri-bad against Thalia decks. I thought long and hard about what I would change in the deck to counter this matchup. Golgari Charm or Marsh Casualties seem appealing at first blush, but then I began to think about what I would cut. If we cut a Surgical, we make the Storm and Lands matchups worse, and if we cut a Thoughtseize we make this and all combo matchups worse. Winter Orb and Pithing Needle play a huge role against Miracles and Lands, while Painful Truths is an all-star in the fair blue deck matchups.
I really don't think I would change anything at this point. I would recommend this deck to anyone wanting to play Delver in a metagame that has Miracles, Lands, combo, and fair blue decks. Obviously if Elves and D&T are running rampant, leave this list at home and play red for Forked Bolt/Lightning Bolt. I have played lots of Delver decks (see my username), and this one felt like it had the leanest curve, smoothest draws, best mana, and most cohesive sideboarding plan I have ever experienced. Dust off your Stifles and Nimble Mongeese, tuck your Hymns, Bayous, and Tarmogoyfs back in their binders, and take this list out for a spin. You won't regret it.
Very true, but 1-2 Pierce/Flusterstorm + 4 Stifle allows you an Island go Turn 1, into a proactive Goyf / Sinkhole Turn 2 (or the ultimate 12/12 trample). The follow up Snap Stifle / Sinkhole just seams rude.
One is a tap out, the other is a wait out.
Not gonna work
Thanks for the report!
I used to play BUG Delver with Stifle as my go to deck before Eldrazi came along then switched to 4c for Bolt and Grudge mostly. I also found the DnT matchup close to impossible and ended up with two Dread of Night in the SB. This was also just after Monastery Mentor came into Legacy so killed two birds with one stone, Mentor and DnT are actually seeing even more play now. Since the maindeck is already very strong vs Miracles SB cards for this could be shaved in place of Dreads? Though I can see the problem of Orbs and Needles being very important vs Lands. I've been quite unimpressed with Truths, Mongoose is a nightmare for most fair decks already, and Stifle keeps Shardless down by getting under them or 'countering' Visions that aren't cascaded into.
Anyway, big fan of the podcast too! Will be giving this list a spin soon :)
Sure, but if they don't play into the stifle/pierce turn 1 then this line doesn't work. To add to that, especially if they've seen stifle game one they're not going to be cracking fetches into open mana which gives Sinkhole no good targets.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote