Same here. Just get Siege Rhino when you want to start being the beatdown. It's a little bit harder to kill and impacts the board as soon as it hits the field.
I've looked at Titania a couple of times (when you're running KotR you might just as well run Titania for some serious blow-out potential), but it just seems like too much setup for something that still dies to Lightning Bolt (even though Titania can do a pretty good Grave Titan impression).
Knight does a good job vs gurmag angler and the various eldrazi, and she does it for 3 mana (ok most of the time it is for 4 mana cause green sun).
Also your karakas becomes available as a 6 of (karkas, knight, greensun) witch helps vs fatty decks.
Having a relevant threat when you're not in explorer mana is also nice.
But the slots,the slots, too many options too few slots
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Ok, so based on the latest comments I'll make a few adjustments to my current list, more in order to see what happens than based on any specific analysis. Changes are made with Miracles and Eldrazi in mind, being the two best dtb's, but also with consideration of the general meta. Here's the previous list: Previous Rhino list. [edit: just noticed sdematt suggested a similar change, from a different list, in the following post.]
MD:
-1 Evolutionary Leap, +1 Sylvan Safekeeper
Comment: E.L. was obviously a very experimental slot, and even though it was always pretty good or great Sylvan Safekeeper fulfills a similar role in preserving threats but is GSZ-able.
Safekeeper does not offer card advantage, semi-tutoring or protection from sweepers (looking at you, Terminus).
Safekeeper does however protect silver bullet creatures in some matchups, namely Gaddock (vs Miracles, Storm), Scavenging Ooze (vs Goyf, Deathrite, Lands etc), Stoneforge Mystic (fetching Batterskull with protection for Mystic seems potentially strong in fair matchups), and of course having the superstar Siege Rhino unswordable. I hope Olle Rĺde (a.k.a. Sylvan Safekeeper) will help putting pressure on opponents.
This actually means lands become more important, may need to reconsider Veteran no 4.
-1 Meren of Clen Nel Toth, +1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
Comment: Some have mentioned that Meren is not that strong, I'll try a Titania to see how valuable it is to power out lots of 5/3 tokens (I've played in Maverick and Sylvan Plug, with added Wasteland synergy), and with potential Safekeeper blowouts. I think the offensive capabilities of Titania could be better than the grindiness of Meren in especially the Miracles matchup, but vs Eldrazi having several 5/3's to trade with Smashers and Thought-Knots is certainly relevant. It's also a faster card, even though it costs 1 mana more it's an immediate threat rather then Meren who takes more time and requires more setup to accumulate an advantage.
This change makes the maindeck Qasali less good, with Meren gone. May revert to Abrupt Decay no 4 or Vindicate no 3.
SB:
-1 Tsunami, +1 Red Elemental Blast
Comment: Playing 1 Taiga only this may be a bad idea, but it's quicker interaction vs combo decks where it coupled with Therapy/Thoughtseize offers more varied interaction during turn 1-2, it's also a way to stop t2 Counterbalance or any turn Jace. While also getting rid of Delvers in the Grixis matchup. Or stopping Show and Tell where applicable. Certainly worthy of testing, there is also Deathrite to occasionally offer the needed red mana. This change goes against my idea to put some pressure on Miracles' lands by maindeck Vindicates and sb Tsunami/Choke. But there will still be the one of Choke and the Enlightened tutor can find it vs Storm and Grixis who have a hard time getting rid of it.
Last edited by pettdan; 04-17-2016 at 04:51 PM.
Its a very nice work Bob, I try this list as much as possible and comeback with some arguments and I hope to help finish this file.
Yesterday I play this MD http://imgur.com/3I7NCqk -1 Deed (the guy I was going to buy not come in time for the start of the tournament) -1 Top, +1 Courser +1 KotR
and I lose to Agro Loam, Jund, Bant Blade and draw vs Miracles
This deck is sweet when you know how to play with it, I definitely play more and try Bobs list.
Those match-ups are usually the favorable ones. At least, i'd play any of those any day over Miracles. But, NicFit is actually pretty skill intensive, like stated in the OP, it is one you should commit to. But is sure is one of the most fun deck to play Magic the Gathering.
Cool, i just put up this new location for the cheatsheet, so i can access it when playing at Frankfurt next month ;-p
Rhino's Abbondanza! Everybody should get some.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
@Bobmans: You sir, are a hero. I hereby enstate thee as the altar boy of the sacred church of our lord and savior Siege Rhino. Your duties will be polishing the high priests... sleeves... and being fulltime awesome.
In the name of the holy Siege Rhino, I salute you.
Anyways... I jammed some Nic Fit yesterday (my buddy and I managed to get together quicker than I imagined) and have some thoughts on a couple of my recent card choices.
Sorin: He's never leaving the deck. Ever. He's that good. I've had him on the field a couple of times (once or twice via Diabolic Intent) and oh my god, can he turn a game around (or let you hold on that much longer). The first time he hit the field he let me live out our high priest's dream of +1 into Siege Rhino, cast Siege Rhino (after which our lord and savior quickly ended the game). The second time he first killed a creature, then started to + me into prosperity. I once also had the luck to + into a Sigarda (but I am a very lucky bastard by nature). Turns out Grixis Delver and D&T can't deal with this guy for the life of them. Sorin hit the dust exactly one time. He started off killing a Koth, +'d a couple of times while ignoring some 1/1 token and finally got killed off by a Lightning Bolt or something. I'm prepared to officially enstate Sorin as a lesser deity.
Glissa: Wasn't horrible. Wasn't great either. Might need some specific MUs to shine. Don't feel the need to trade her in just yet.
Mainboard Gaddock Teeg: OMG, I hate this motherfucker so much. I don't know if I hate ANT/TES enough to maindeck this bastard.
Qasali Pridemage: Blew up a Batterskull when my opponent was tapped out, that was fun. In MUs without targets he's never horrible. Not great either though. Seemingly annoying enough to warrant removal to the face, so that's fine.
On not having AD whenever I had one of these creatures in hand (since they pretty much occupy the same slots): I don't think having AD at those times would have mattered much, but that might just have been the MUs (Grixis Delver, D&T and some Modern Red Deck Wins variant with Blood Moons).
@Whoever suggested 3 MD Painful Truths: At the moment I would be able to consider that. Painful Truths was horrible exactly once yesterday, but nothing would have saved me there. The other times I drew it/had it, it was great. I'd probably take out Glissa and Teeg or Meren and Teeg (I get your point, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to give up on Meren just yet) and run an extra DRS and Painful Truths no. 3.
Last edited by Echelon; 04-18-2016 at 07:49 AM.
Hi guys,
I typically pilot delver, but happen to have a lot of Nic Fit cards just laying around so I decided to just finish the deck. Mainly because Siege Rhino is a silly card.
I'm running this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/399401#paper
I saw the sideboarding guide, but this list seems very different in comparison to the "stock" list. (Slaughtergames vs none)
Is there a sb guide for the lists running slaughtergames?
I really wasn't sure what to bring in/out vs Grixis Delver.
I know I want to bring in Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge, Tsunami
I guess I should drop Karakas, Scavenging Ooze, Rec Sage
What matchups are Slaughtergames brought in? Miracles, and likely combo?
Another one joins the cause! In the name of the holy Siege Rhino, I salute you!
Grixis Delver has the tendency to run DRS, so keep your Scavenging Ooze in. Fucking with their DRS can win you the game.
I'd board out Glissa, Reclamation Sage and an Abrupt Decay (they don't present enough targets to need it, especially if you have Scavenging Ooze & your own DRS to thwart theirs and bring in more sweepers).
You could also board out Meren, as her ability targets and they sometimes splash Tropical Island just to be able to eat creatures (it's a bit of a long shot though, but if you really value your AD it's a path you can take). I wouldn't go down to 20 lands though.
I wouldn't board out lands when playing vs any Wastland.dec.
Ooze is good vs any DRS deck as mentioned, so keep it in. Only play it when you can safely grow if to 4 power, then it becomes a real nightmare for the Grixis opponent (if they don't run Abrupt Decays).
Tsunami is questionable - it is great if you resolve it, but honesty you have already won the game if it lasted that long.. any 4cmc+ threat in you deck can wrack them (personally I don't bring them in).
I wouldn't board out any removal either, losing to a fast clock + disruption is the most likely scenario.
My boarding with the given list:
- Rec. Sage
- Painful Truths (or Glissa) (never played Glissa, but it seems to me that she could easily stall the ground for 1+ turns, which is a big thing (although she does nothing against DRS or Delver))
+ Toxic Deluge
+ Golgari Charm
Why would you board out a card that lets you pull ahead of your opponent and keep in one that dies to the Lightning Bolts and possible Abrupt Decays they play and does nothing for 8 out of the 12/14 threats they play..?
Postboard you probably also face Clique and/or True-Name Nemesis, so Glissa'd be useless vs. 10 out of their 12/14 threats...
Well Glissa is probably a better candidate for siding out then P.Truths, but honestly neither are great vs Grixis. From my experience, paying 3 life points and 3 mana is a serious investment vs that deck.
It is obviously great once you stabilize and you have 9+ life points, but this is not as easy as it might sound :)
edit: edited to make it more clear
I played the MU quite a number of times yesterday (and do so more often when I meet up with my buddy) and it's pretty much a cakewalk. The only time the MU is problematic is when they manage to Stifle a crucial fetchland activation or Explorer trigger (or FoW an Explorer), but most Grixis builds are moving away from Stifle. Just fetch a lot of basics and you're good. Wasteland is best when ignored, which in turn allows you to power through Daze. Pre- and postboard are both like 70/30 to 80/20. It's an insanely good MU (even sans AD).
The plan boils down to resolve an Explorer trigger/a bunch of removal, cast a small threat and have that killed/countered, cast anywhere between 1 and 3 Siege Rhinos and win.
Last edited by Echelon; 04-18-2016 at 07:53 AM.
Did u ever face the situation that someone played surgical on the rhino? How do u win? Most of the time sigarda is the last wincon I guess.
I played 12post and switched to nic fit or 8post/nic due to the missing board presence.
I like this deck a lot but I wonder what happens if all rhinos are gone. I play 15 creatures.
4 rhinos
4 vet
2 drs
1 kitchen finks or kotr
1 eternal w
1 ooze
1 qasali
1 sigarda
That is why I really consider to put thragtusk back in the deck..
I haven't. Most builds run 2 kill conditions that go bigger than Siege Rhino. If Rhino is a no-go, I can always fall back on Sigarda and/or Sorin, Grim Nemesis. In my case that's 4 GSZ + 2 Diabolic Intent + 1 Sigarda + 1 Sorin = 8 kill conditions left in the deck after Rhinos get extracted (excluding Eternal Witness-shenanigans here). If those fail, you can always grind out your opponent with DRS or smash face with Scavenging Ooze.
Slaughter Games is not strong enough sb anymore, I believe. I'm jamming 4 mistcutters atm bc I fkn hate miracles and I want to resolve my spells.
I haven't had more than 2 games, in my lifetime, where I have run out of rhinos or had them extracted. Sigarda and Sorin are more than enough. If you feel otherwise, you can put in a thragtusk but it is superfluous.
Echelon, back at it again with the perfect responses. (I don't believe in DI but that's cool man)
@Jaytron: that list is solid BUTTTTT cut the rec sage and glissa for vindicate and Sorin GN. 3 SG can become 2 canonist and something spicy depending upon your meta.
MTGO: Ricardio
Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck
I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.
"Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh
IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/
That's fine. One day you too will be brave enough to do your sudokus in pen!
By the way - I mentioned the Intents mostly to highlight how I look at cards during deckbuilding, how I evaluate situations during games etc.
BUT FIRST, I must learn to read and do basic arithmetic. I just do not like the possibility of being blown out by a counterspell. I am sure it happens very often but I cant do it, captain.
MTGO: Ricardio
Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck
I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.
"Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh
IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/
I get that. The best way to avoid such a risk is to eliminate it altogether. It's perfectly reasonable to want to do that.
I appreciate your understanding. I am sure one day I will gather up the courage.I get that
Side note: I've been reading the modern jund forum on mtgsalvation and I just want to say: I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU. SERIOUSLY, THINKING BEFORE POSTING AND BEING UNDERSTANDING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING ANSWERS. DEAR LORD, ITS LIKE NIGHT AND DAY, BUT NO WEREWOLVES. Thank god im too lazy to make a mtgsalvation account of the jund thread would be painted red.
MTGO: Ricardio
Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck
I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.
"Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh
IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/
LoL,
Really glad to hear more on Sorin. With the inclusion of Volrath's Stronghold (rather then Meren), i can use KotR to fetch the two towers if needed.
Combining them with Siege Rhino and Sorin, one could: Attack with Rhino, flip it to the top; +1 Sorin, cast Rhino, GO!
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
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