[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[heat_wave]

@heat_wave:

Congrats to your finish! Would you mind sharing your current list? And did you feel like the Sage main was something you would play again? 'Cause I never cast it or tutored for it during my 6-round tournament. I'm not sure if we really need it maindeck atm, with all those Deeds, Decays and Pulse.

Greetings!

Thank you! Sure, the current list is:

Maindeck
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Beast Within
1 Golgari Charm

Sideboard

2 Blood Moon
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Elephant Grass
3 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Punishing Fire

I dropped Slaughter Games recently since I feel comfortable playing against Miracles most of the time, and the combo decks just kill faster than I can get mana for it. Garruk is a bit experimental, but his targeted fight is better against UR Delver and he can make free wolves in slow games, so he replaced my second Liliana. Golgari Charm maindeck - UR Delver, Nemesis, Counterbalance, Sylvan Library, Goblins, Elves, whatever. The regeneration mode is also useful sometimes.
Beast Within can hit lands which is great for a deck that plays 0 Wastelands and Acidic Slime can be too slow. It is also a nice answer to planeswalkers and any other problematic permanents. The token is usually irrelevant in those situations.
Ruric Thar is for anything spell-intensive. Worst case is he gets plowed, meaning a 12-point life swing. Blocks Delvers, kills pretty much anything in combat.
Blood Moon for BUG decks - if it sticks, they're dead. Also good versus any utility lands, greedy manabases, Dark Depths, etc.
Elephant Grass stops cheap aggressive decks - what's the point of having 10 goblins if you can attack only with 1 or 2? Elves cannot swarm you, Griselbrand and Marit Lage cannot attack. And when the cumulative upkeep is too expensive, just sac it and rebuy with GSZ->Witness for several more turns.
Rakdos Charm has 2 relevant modes: it kills artifacts in decks that rely on them, and it exiles one graveyard when it's ready for cruisin', diggin', reanimating, past-in-flaming. Don't underestimate it.
1 extra PFire in sideboard for decks with cheap small creatures.

This tournament, Rec Sage was mostly useless, but you can always expect some amount of UWx-Blades with equipment, Miracles with Counterbalance & Top, combo decks with artifacts like Grindstone/Painter's Servant, hate artifacts like Pithing Needle, Aether Vial decks, or you can just run into MUD where it can shoot down all of the opponent's artifacts if you have enough mana and a Volrath's Stronghold lock. I prefer to have an answer to those cards preboard to increase my chances. Sure, we have a ton of removal, but none of it is tutorable. GSZ gives you extra 4 copies of artifact/enchantment hate. Well, if there was a green creature that shot another creature for 2 or 3 when it ETB, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[jbone2016]

So....ugin....overkill?

[Megadeus]

Idk. Being able to come down and deed and still live seems pretty alright. I think I'd rather have it in a version with like nature's lore fora bit more ramp though

[Bobmans]

So....ugin....overkill?

I think this one is "to big" for Nic Fit. Sure the card is a monster, but 8 mana is too much. Even Garruk AP doesn't even make the cut requiring 7 mana.

[maharis]

Yeah, but Ugin is a far better card than GAP. I think it's better for the veteran planeswalkers decks than Karn for sure.

[Madmankevinx]

Oh boy do we get to play Culling the Weak now?

[sdematt]

Back out! Back out! You've gone too deep!

-Matt

[Smoldy]

I am getting into legacy starting the new year and my deck of choice for more reasons then i can count is Nic Fit, But i am stuck between scape-wish and junk (with knight of the reliquary) i like both decks a lot but i am not sure witch on is better off right now to build. I also have interest in maverick so i know the junk list offers a lot of cards for that but i feel that the wish board and huntmaster have a lot to offer to the meta right now but as i have only watched coverages of matches i am not sure if that is true or not and would like your guys opinion on witch would be a better investment to build and some pros and cons for each.

my Junk list i have been working on is this
Land (23)
2x Bayou
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wasteland
3x Windswept Heath
Creature (18)
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Rampaging Baloths
4x Veteran Explorer

Sorcery (10)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Toxic Deluge

Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares

Enchantment (2)
2x Sylvan Library

Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Containment Priest
2x Duress
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Leyline of the Void
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Reclamation Sage
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Thorn of Amethyst

I see a lot of list running SFM and am not sure why and would like to know why. Is it for the life loss? Or just to have a tool box for more bullets that are harder to remove then creatures. If it is life couldn't we run something like Vault of the Archangel to fetch with a knight to get back our life? While also making are smaller guys bigger and even make our tokens from Titania and Baloth more of a nightmare then they already are? Im not sure i can say much i am still new to this deck and am not sure if what i am saying is even true or not so i thought id ask :).

[Bobmans]

I am getting into legacy starting the new year and my deck of choice for more reasons then i can count is Nic Fit, But i am stuck between scape-wish and junk (with knight of the reliquary) i like both decks a lot but i am not sure witch on is better off right now to build. I also have interest in maverick so i know the junk list offers a lot of cards for that but i feel that the wish board and huntmaster have a lot to offer to the meta right now but as i have only watched coverages of matches i am not sure if that is true or not and would like your guys opinion on witch would be a better investment to build and some pros and cons for each.

I would say, print proxies and try it for yourself before investing in it if you want to be sure.
As for the META, i do not really think you should worry to much about the meta if youre getting into legacy (perhaps the next banning in Januari will shake up the meta, who knows). I'd say build a deck (you like), play it, master it and learn how to ineract with other decks by playing against them in any way you can.

[Smoldy]

I would say, print proxies and try it for yourself before investing in it if you want to be sure.
As for the META, i do not really think you should worry to much about the meta if youre getting into legacy (perhaps the next banning in Januari will shake up the meta, who knows). I'd say build a deck (you like), play it, master it and learn how to ineract with other decks by playing against them in any way you can.

i also have a question then what is usually better for the junk list top or library ? i have seen both but i don't know what the difference is and why it matters?

[venice]

i also have a question then what is usually better for the junk list top or library ? i have seen both but i don't know what the difference is and why it matters?

If you play without Deed, I would always prefer Sylvan Library, since it not only offers card selection but also actual card advantage if need be. Top is better alongside Deed since it can be "protected".

[Smoldy]

If you play without Deed, I would always prefer Sylvan Library, since it not only offers card selection but also actual card advantage if need be. Top is better alongside Deed since it can be "protected".

Ok sweet thank you that helps a lot

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Reposted from the old thread, because I'm Bed Threads Searcher.

Ok, I got a question. I want to build a different deck than the one last I got (RUG Threshold), but as I lack both money and the desire to spend them on cardboard, I'm interested in Nic Fit. It looks like I'd kill two birds with one stone, as the deck doesn't sport that many expensive cards, and it's also really different from what I playnow.

My question is: are there anyreasonable four-color builds? I'd love to squeeze StP, KotRs and Sigarda in together with PFire engine plus LftL and Raven's Crime as poor man's Thoughtseizes. Is this stretching the manabase and slots too far?
Maybe I should build two versions instead,
- RGB for the LftL, Raven's Crime and PFire
- GBW for KotR, Sigarda, Pod and StP

Is this reasonable? Note that I got zero experiences with the archetype except that I played a dozen of games against it in past months.

I was already told that supporting four colors is too harsh even for Nic Fit. (Thanks tomatojim, and also thanks for directing me here.) Moreover the two ideas (creatures-heavy "aggro" build with KotRs and the PFire control) are not really working together. However I still like the theory behind the build: be able to swing fast with big Knights, or to find utility lands (and fix the colors) namely Grove, then the LftL "lock" with Raven's Crime. Maybe I'm trying for far too many things at once, but I'd beinterested in general opinions on this, even though it's a bit too cheeky, especially considering I know very little about the archetype and I don't even provied any preliminary decklist.

[sdematt]

Came third at a tournament at our local store, will post report tomorrow.

-Matt

[Bobmans]

Reposted from the old thread, because I'm Bed Threads Searcher.



I was already told that supporting four colors is too harsh even for Nic Fit. (Thanks tomatojim, and also thanks for directing me here.) Moreover the two ideas (creatures-heavy "aggro" build with KotRs and the PFire control) are not really working together. However I still like the theory behind the build: be able to swing fast with big Knights, or to find utility lands (and fix the colors) namely Grove, then the LftL "lock" with Raven's Crime. Maybe I'm trying for far too many things at once, but I'd beinterested in general opinions on this, even though it's a bit too cheeky, especially considering I know very little about the archetype and I don't even provied any preliminary decklist.

So you would want to fit KotR, LftL, Pfire, Ravens Crime etc in one deck? Looks to be more like 4c Aggro Loam would be your thing. But...
Generally NicFit abuses the card interaction between Veteren Explorer and Cabal Therapy to slingshot into mana ramping while eating up your opponents hand. This works pretty well in Legacy since a lot of decks dont run basics. On top of that the deck main colors are GBx and run a number of Abrupt Decay and Pernicious Deed that really gives this deck an edge. Also because it ramps pretty quickly it is able to support a full set of Green Suns Zenith with creature package higher in the mana curve (mostly cmc 6 at max), granting those creatures makes such an impact on the board that those leave more value then creatures played by most of the (effecient) decks like RUG Threshold.
That being said there are different color splashes and "engines" to add to GBx Nicfit. Most of them have dozens of cards with cool synergies and it can be difficult to see the forest behind the trees. But it is often best to focus on the main "engine" to fully exploit its potential and gain most consistent results.
The cool thing with all this synergies on the other hand is the infinite stream of possibilities and the never ending quest of finding some hidding potential.
As for budget reasons to play NicFit i disagree. Yes most of its staples are cheaper, but NicFit (for me) forces me to change and test and try all this different versions. GBW requires stuff like Karakas or Moat, while GBR Liliana and BUG often uses Jace, Vendilion Clique and whatnot. So basiscly NicFit requires a bigger and more diverse cardpool then say RUG Thresh.
All in all, NicFit is an enjoyable and diverse archetype that is both challenging and rewarding to play. It offers not only fun, but you really get that "playing Magic: the Gathering" feel.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Thanks Bobmans.
I tried to tinker with the whole cocnept and it was disastrous. You're right that there's no poit to play KoTr when one may easily ramp into Titan.
I like the LftL/Crime because of the need to fight combo. However plain and simple Hymns seem to work better.

Also, I beg to differ on the "budget/luxury" part, if you mind to be mentored by a virgin. :-D
what I meant is that the lands are not expensive and the whole deck's base is also cheap.
If the only things you really need are Deeds, Therapies, Catacombs, Decays and one Bayou (I'm talking about the very base), then you got your deck for the price of an USea. This look like a good budget choice. Yes, enter Groves or Karakas, Jace or Lili, and it's different. But the base is cheap, right?

This is what I test now:

Qty Name
// Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
6 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Bojuka Bog
2 Bayou
//\\
// Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Eternal Witness
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
2 Sylvan Primordial
3 Primeval Titan
3 Thragtusk
//\\
// Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Tainted AEther
1 Pernicious Deed


No Lili of TV, it's out of my budget, moreover I think I got more powerful cards than most of the decks, so why discard them. And as one-shot edict... idk. Yes, in early game it's better to discard Titan in exchange for their game-winning IT/BW/StP/TC or anything else, but then again I'd need a set of Lilis to have her reliably and that's plain sick.
Nath is a crappy GSZ target for combo mu.
The creature base... I came up with this. Ramp/GSZ into destroyers. Nothing fancy. I need to get in touch with the deck, and it's too soon to try fancy one-ofs and/or Pod.
Tainted Aether is a thing I try for Young Pyromancer decks. Bojuka because screw your Treasure Cruises.

[Bobmans]

I guess it is a fine place to start with.
I would advice to shave down on the bogs and add 1/2 Scavenging Ooze as your anti graveyard cards. Also Volrath's Stronghold might be really nice here. Plus add a couple of forest/swamp/bayou (unless budget).
Also 2 sylvan primes and 3 primetime and 3 Thragtusk is to much. You would want to control the board and then ramp into the big dudes as your main strategy.
Also consider:
Courser of Kruphix
Wolfir Silverheart
Rampaging Baloth
Obstinate Baloth
Dungrove elder (cus of all the forests and courser)
And your a RUG player... Tarmogoyf is always solid and quick pressure.
If you have them, deathrite shamans are putting up some serious pressure in my current Punishing Fire list. Also keep on mind that, this deck ramps mana, but keeping your curve tight and well thought out makes it run more smooth.

Makes me wanna jam together a Straight GB list, lol.

[tomatojim]

Though I played the Punishing Version in the end, I was also tinkering with a (almost) straight GB list. Here's where I'm at:

4 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Treetop Village

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Innocent Blood
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Diabolic Intent

1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Primeval Titan
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

Without something to discard for Lili, I guess Hymn is just better in this shell. Also without the PFires I wanted some extra removal and sac-outlets -> Innocent Blood + Diabolic Intent. For the Prime Time package you could always play Stronghold as well. The small red splash is for SB cards like blasts and Slaughter Games. The Tribe Elder could also be a Wall of Blossoms or another Ooze. Vraska had been in there from time to time, too, but I'm not sure about here.

For budget reasons, I guess a straight GB list is probably fine with 1 Bayou.

Greetings

[crush]

...

This is what I test now:

Qty Name
// Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
6 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Bojuka Bog
2 Bayou
//\\
// Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Eternal Witness
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
2 Sylvan Primordial
3 Primeval Titan
3 Thragtusk
//\\
// Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Tainted AEther
1 Pernicious Deed

...

As a former RUG Delver player you should picture yourself with a starting hand of 2x Thrugtusk, Deed, C. Therapy and 3 lands against a RUG or UR delver opponent. Without anything meaningful to cast before turn 3 you are as good as dead. This is why, even thought this deck ramps like crazy, you have to have a critical mass of spells to interact with your opponents before you can lay your bomb.

[pettdan]

In a GB budget shell one could consider Headhunter. His blue cousin Riptide Pilferer has seen SB play which was largely stated to be because of FoW's need for blue count. Still, at its best it's a 2 mana investment that starts discard t3 vs most combo decks just like Liliana but one sided (and vulnerable)..