[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Mr. Safety]

This is the list I've been working on:

4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Dark Confidant

4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Lotus Petal

4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
4x Crop Rotation
3x Sylvan Scrying
2x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
2x Abrupt Decay

4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bayou
2x Swamp
1x Forest
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe

Sideboard
3x Not of this World
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sylvan Library
3x Toxic Deluge
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Rite of Consumption


Obviously the maindeck Decays are there in place of Sylvan Safekeeper, but I can do a straight swap, no problem. The decays go to the sideboard, Not of this World comes out entirely, and I have a slot in the board to mess around with. I could easily rework it for Hymn to Tourach (makes a pretty decent b/g midrange deck with Decay, Hymn, Bobs post board.)

Alternatively I could go uber-all-in and do NotW maindeck over Bobs and add in more tutors for the Decay slots. That would give me 10 protections (TS, Duress, NotW), 8 fast mana, with a goal towards super fast combo potential (like DNSolver mentioned.) I feel like this is likely not as good as making the deck more robust, which means just biting the bullet and getting 2-3x sylvan safekeeper into the 75, dropping Not of this World altogether.

EDIT: the reason I was trying Not of this World was because of the 8x fast mana, which would mean pushing towards a turn 2-3 combo as plan A post-board. Rather than grind out the game, just go balls-to-the-wall. I wanted a t1 discard, turn 2 set up, t3 combo/attack w/NoTW protection while my opponent tried to assemble whatever sideboard cards they might have. In practicality it seems that having a little more patience is more rewarding (that's the impression I'm getting from all of the more experienced turbo pilots.) With 8x fast mana a t1 Dark Confidant g1 also seemed very good in many matchups.

[ComplexPants]

I think DNSolver answered the question about NOTW, but I just wanted to re-emphasize what he said. NoTW isn't bad, but at best it is a single surprise protection from your hand that is easily dealt with with a counter. And at worst it is a dead card in your hand. Safekeeper plays multiple roles of protection and only stiffle can really shut it down. At best, it is just a wall of defense, at worst it is a 1/1 beater. NoTW fell out of favor after Eternal Weekend in 2016. It was about this time that Safekeeper showed up and it has been there for a while.

[DNSolver]

I started playing Safekeeper after the Top ban actually. That was the main catalyst for switching away from NOTW.

[Darkgobs]

I figured I would pop in and share some thoughts.

1) Hymns in my most recent SB. I wanted a card that hit both Storm and Sneak and Show. These are *not* for fair matchups because we roll all of them except for D+T. Another option to hit Storm and Sneak is Warping Wail, but Hymn is actually easier to cast in this deck.

2) Safekeeper beats Miracles. Steely Resolve is fine vs D+T and Miracles, but it is still vulnerable to some cards that Safekeeper is not. There are definitely tradeoffs. Examples of what I'm talking about: a) Safekeeper gets shut down by Revoker out of D+T, while Steely Resolve can be Flickerwisp'd. b) Miracles is boarding in artifact/enchantment destruction like EE/Disenchant/Council's Judgment. All three hit both effects. Terminus hits Safekeeper as well. However, in general I've found Safekeeper to be excellent against them, as long as you don't attack into a surprise Snapcaster Mage block.

3) Not of This World is good against D+T if you're on a plan of going as fast as possible, rather than trying to grind with Sylvan Library. If you are going to keep in fast mana and try to make Lage on turn2/3, Not of This World isn't bad. My current plan involves removing fast mana vs D+T, so I can't make use of NOTW.

4) Duress is fine on the play vs D+T but can be cut on the draw when they can play Vial already. It's very relevant for taking equipment and Swords so I wouldn't auto-board it out if you are on a grindy plan in the matchup.

5) Please play Sejiri Steppe and Bojuka Bog in your maindeck.

6) I think cutting Safekeepers from the main will really hurt. At worst you can use it to block, at best it wins the game.

7) People can't *play around* Safekeeper if you can resolve it with the help of a discard spell. In my entire time playing the card I have only had one opponent beat it, and that was because I misplayed. D+T opponent Wastelanded me, I just let it go rather than protect my token with the land he targeted. Because of that, opponent used mainphase Flickerwisp to eat another land, Karakas to eat another land, block with Flickerwisp, then Karakas to eat my last land, and finally Path to kill the token. That beat four activations of Safekeeper. Every other time, Safekeeper must be Revoker'd or immediately Terminus'd away. You can't *save up* enough effects to beat it. If Miracles goes for saving up lots of Plows and Snapcasters, they can get wrecked by Surgical Extraction on our side.

Thanks for sharing.

I'd have some questions though:

1/ Don't you miss Dread of Night against DnT?

2/ Could you please give us your in and out strategies? That would be very interesting!

3/ what about cutting 1 Map for 1 Sylvan Library MD?

[DNSolver]

For Dread of Night, see my post on page 137.

In and out strategies are pretty much covered in my previous posts.

One library could hit the main if you wanted to make room for another sideboard card.

[Mr. Safety]

Is Decay enough against D&T currently? I am planning to have 3 available between the main/sideboard and I am planning to have 2-3x Toxic Deluge. Are the Deluges wasted slots? FYI, I have a unusually high saturation of D&T in my metagame, in some weeklies up to 4 players slinging it. My chances of facing it are above average. I don't think its unbeatable, but I want to be prepared. I don't have Dread of Nights, but I do have Engineered Plague, Pernicious Deed, Golgari Charm, Marsh Casualties, and the aforementioned Toxic Deluge. I just figured Deluge was more powerful overall to deal with Nimble Mongoose etc.

[Mr. Safety]

I am hoping to complete my sets of Depths/Stage tonight, so I might be slinging this at the local. I am also looking to nab 2-3x Safekeeper if the LGS has them, and then I'm good to go. Very excited to see what this deck can do in the current metagame, at least on the local level. I'm still learning play patterns for the deck, but I'm sure I can figure out those with just a ton of practice.

This is my planned list if I can get all the cards together:

4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Dark Confidant
2x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
3x Sylvan Scrying
2x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sylvan Library
2x Toxic Deluge
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Karakas
2x Hymn to Tourach
2x Rite of Consumption


If I don't end up with Safekeepers, I'll probably just table the deck until I get them. I don't want to learn how to play a sub-par list and then re-learn how to play the right one.

[apple713]

If I don't end up with Safekeepers, I'll probably just table the deck until I get them. I don't want to learn how to play a sub-par list and then re-learn how to play the right one.

with or without safekeepers is not going to make your list subpar. Their inclusion changes based on the meta. You need to learn to play with and without them...

[ComplexPants]

with or without safekeepers is not going to make your list subpar. Their inclusion changes based on the meta. You need to learn to play with and without them...

Learning how to work the combo and make it come from unfamiliar places is what this deck is very very good at. Safekeepers will make your deck more consistent, but learning how to work around an opposing wasteland or thespian stage is important.

[Mr. Safety]

Thanks all, i got 1 safekeeper and sleeved it. I didn't play this, but i will at the next weekly I can get to. Appreciate the advice on how to pilot/learn the deck.

[Mr. Safety]

What about playing 2x Green Sun's Zenith and 1x Sylvan Safekeeper? It costs more mana (not typically a problem) and it can get Dryad Arbor. Not sure if it's relevant, but it could also get high value sideboard cards (Reclamation Sage, Scavenging Ooze.) Xantid Swarm seems ok, but definitely not as good as Safekeeper. I don't want to go deep here, just have a way to consistently have access to Safekeeper while supporting another angle of the deck (Dryad Arbor to protect against Edict, ramping with Arbor, relevant sideboard cards.) Really it would be for Safekeeper and Dryad Arbor, RecSage out of the board.

Is this too slow?

[PeterSouth]

https://goo.gl/images/ZuMCPD

Holy Hell, this is badass! Using 4 immediately.

[Mr. Safety]

https://goo.gl/images/ZuMCPD

Holy Hell, this is badass! Using 4 immediately.

It's nice that it hits lands (hello Karakas killer) but I don't like that it can be countered. I'm not sure it's a replacement for Decay just yet.

[WorstBandNameEver]

https://goo.gl/images/ZuMCPD

Holy Hell, this is badass! Using 4 immediately.

Excited to see this card for sure. Does it being counterable compared to abrupt decay make it good enough?

Seems like the ability to hits lands might put it over the top.

Will be interested to see how this shakes out.

[Mr. Safety]

Excited to see this card for sure. Does it being counterable compared to abrupt decay make it good enough?

It's less mana efficient than Needle for stopping Wasteland/Karakas and can be countered. The free basic land is negligible, but being able to counter it is pretty rough.

[downtoonelife]

https://goo.gl/images/ZuMCPD

Holy Hell, this is badass! Using 4 immediately.

Where should we put this? Maindeck or Sideboard? I'll wait for everyone's opinion on this new card. I got excited after seeing this not only for my Turbo Depths but for my Modern Jund as well lol

@Mr. Safety - I started playing the deck with 4 Bob and 2 Sylvan Safekeepers with only 4 Petal as an accelerator and made it to the Top 4 with my first tournament with the deck. But after several configuration of the deck, I like the Turbo list more. Against DNT, I never have a problem with them with 3 Sylvan Safekeeper maindeck and 4 Abrupt, 2 Golgari Charm and 2 Rite of Consumption sideboard. I have maindeck Dryad Arbor and Karakas as well. Karakas and Safekeeper help me win versus Lands.

[Mr. Safety]

Where should we put this? Maindeck or Sideboard? I'll wait for everyone's opinion on this new card. I got excited after seeing this not only for my Turbo Depths but for my Modern Jund as well lol

@Mr. Safety - I started playing the deck with 4 Bob and 2 Sylvan Safekeepers with only 4 Petal as an accelerator and made it to the Top 4 with my first tournament with the deck. But after several configuration of the deck, I like the Turbo list more. Against DNT, I never have a problem with them with 3 Sylvan Safekeeper maindeck and 4 Abrupt, 2 Golgari Charm and 2 Rite of Consumption sideboard. I have maindeck Dryad Arbor and Karakas as well. Karakas and Safekeeper help me win versus Lands.

Thanks for the feedback! I was going to keep the 3 Bobs and instead of 2 safekeepers play 1x Safekeeper, 1x Green Sun's Zenith. Maindeck Dryad Arbor gives it another target. I think there is room for playing Dark Confidant, even in the turbo version. If nothing else, against some decks you can just jam a t1 Confidant. If they counter/remove him it should clear the way for other plays.

I end up cutting some number of slow tutors (Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying) to work it in. So far I'm at 3x Confidant, 3x Sylvan Scrying, 2x Map. That gives me an extra 3 draw spells/threats while still having 9 tutors for Depths/Stage. When the deck goes all-in it helpful to have something that can recuperate and draw into another combo attempt. Sideboarding in some number of Sylvan Library, at least 2, really seems good when grinding out D&T/Miracles.

Do you find Golgari Charm enough against D&T? I was thinking that Toxic Deluge may be a better sweeper, but I'm new to this deck. It's not about card availability, I just need to figure the optimal setup.

[downtoonelife]

Thanks for the feedback! I was going to keep the 3 Bobs and instead of 2 safekeepers play 1x Safekeeper, 1x Green Sun's Zenith. Maindeck Dryad Arbor gives it another target. I think there is room for playing Dark Confidant, even in the turbo version. If nothing else, against some decks you can just jam a t1 Confidant. If they counter/remove him it should clear the way for other plays.

I end up cutting some number of slow tutors (Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying) to work it in. So far I'm at 3x Confidant, 3x Sylvan Scrying, 2x Map. That gives me an extra 3 draw spells/threats while still having 9 tutors for Depths/Stage. When the deck goes all-in it helpful to have something that can recuperate and draw into another combo attempt. Sideboarding in some number of Sylvan Library, at least 2, really seems good when grinding out D&T/Miracles.

Do you find Golgari Charm enough against D&T? I was thinking that Toxic Deluge may be a better sweeper, but I'm new to this deck. It's not about card availability, I just need to figure the optimal setup.

Maybe it also depends on your local meta. In our meta we have several aggressive decks like Eldrazi, Storm, Belcher, BR Animator and Goblins so it help me fight aggressively as well with the turbo list. You can play patiently as well depending on the match up like against decks with Edict - I wait until I have discard spell or something that can fetch dryad arbor (Verdant / Crop) before making Marit Lage. So with the turbo list your ready to be aggressive or you can opt to play conservatively. Yes for me Golgari Charm is enough since most of their problematic creatures has 1 toughness (Mother, Thalia, Flicker, Revoker). Charm 2nd mode is good as well since it can hit Humility as well (we have this also in our meta).

[ComplexPants]

Ass Trophy is going to warp the format. It is going to force deck to play basics, otherwise this is just too good.

I am pretty sure this is going to be 3-4 in the 75, possibly main. It is such a potent answer for this deck. There are already very few answers that exist against this combo. The hardest to answer are wasteland and karakas, hence 3-4x needles in the main. This card answers both counters to our combo, but shuts down so many other problem cards. Sneak attack, Gurmag Angler, Jace, Eldrazi, Gris, basically all of reanimators creatures, Maze if Ith to name a few. It can also be used in response to a wasteland, to prevent mana screw. That being said, a lot more mana base attacks are going to be coming against us. I see crucible becoming an important card.

[Vervandi]

It can also be used in response to a wasteland, to prevent mana screw.

You can only use it on Opponent's permanents. Card's pretty great though!