[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Nocley]

Grats, a bit interesting on the SB - 3 library seems a bit heavy, does it lead to a bit of overboarding in some cases, with the Decay? Or are there just no matchups really where you'd want both?

[DNSolver]

You don't often want Library and Decay. The best example of a deck where you do want both is Stoneblade, where your plan of squeezing in an attack with a 20/20 ASAP looks kind of embarrassing against Swords to Plowshares as well as Stoneforge -> lifegain equipment -> gaining life above 20. So in that matchup I'm taking out all 8 fast mana anyway, so I can bring in lots of cards.

Against the new Miracles deck, the fast mana is pretty bad and the Needles aren't great either, so I am often able to fit in Decays to deal with Blood Moon / Back to Basics / fast Mentor. Sylvan obviously comes in against them too, it's extremely powerful now that they don't have the best card selection in the format anymore.

[ComplexPants]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtUXSvUIAArDYV.png

This seems bonkers good and bad for us. We have another Depths enabler but can be used against us as well.

I am not sure if this is a main deck card or not, but it has so many uses against so many decks. Short list I came up with:

Copy mom and give protection.
Copy show and tell fatties and attack
Copy opposing dark depths/Karakas/Maze
Copy Leovold to stop a ponder/brainstorm
Copy Grindstone to mill out a painter deck

I am sure there are lots more of cute things you can do with this card. The 3 cmc cost is a bit high, but seems to potentially create a lot of very awkward interactions and more complicated lines for decks.



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[apple713]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtUXSvUIAArDYV.png

This seems bonkers good and bad for us. We have another Depths enabler but can be used against us as well.

I am not sure if this is a main deck card or not, but it has so many uses against so many decks. Short list I came up with:

Copy mom and give protection.
Copy show and tell fatties and attack
Copy opposing dark depths/Karakas/Maze
Copy Leovold to stop a ponder/brainstorm
Copy Grindstone to mill out a painter deck

I am sure there are lots more of cute things you can do with this card. The 3 cmc cost is a bit high, but seems to potentially create a lot of very awkward interactions and more complicated lines for decks.




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I think it actually hurts us more than helps. It seems like a card u would put into a control deck to counter different things. Its rather slow for legacy. This card makes it harder for us to combo if opposing players are playing it. They could just copy the token and block ours, they wouldnt even have to copy the land. Sure we can sejiri through it but thats just another hoop.

Its slower than hexmage, equally as vulnerable. Probably too slow against D&T. Meh vs painter because they'll just make sure they play grindstone on the turn they use it and it wont help us since we'll draw before they do.

It has a lot of uses but idk that we'll use it.

The One thing i do like about it is that it lets us switch out of black entirely if we like without giving up to much power. The deck could go green + anything. Blue is the most likely option because we'd still need protection against combo. It can be recurred with academy ruins too.

I am slightly more excited about making it work in a green white shell. When I tried making BGW version work, white couldnt work with the mana costs of hexmage and some of the other cards. Being able to cut black opens up some possibilities.

GW suggest some sort of aggro version. You could encompass GSZ, Knight of the reliquary, Gaddock Teeg (against combo).

[Scott]

Its slower than hexmage, equally as vulnerable.

Even more vulnerable; while both turn on counter magic, Hexmage's ability isn't vulnerable to removal, but opponents can respond to Mirage Mirror's ability with removal and stop it. Mirror's less affected by Stifle, but that shouldn't outweigh the other point.

[ComplexPants]

I get that is it slower and more vulnerable, but it is also very versatile.

It may not be a 100% card, but I think a single copy may make its way into the main. I do think it is interesting to use it instead of hexmage for a GW or GU shell.

[apple713]

Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered. You could also cast this then eot crop rotation eot if you wanna do it that way.

It would support the white version obviously and would be reusable in a way that hexmage is not. It can't attack, but its ability is somewhat relevant too.

[hovercraft]

Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered. You could also cast this then eot crop rotation eot if you wanna do it that way.

It would support the white version obviously and would be reusable in a way that hexmage is not. It can't attack, but its ability is somewhat relevant too.

I like this more than the Mirror. Anti-infect tech as well.

[ComplexPants]

That looks really good with KoTR. Both are tutorable from enlightened tutor as well.


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[Deadeye_Mongoose]

would it be worth running Glacial Chasm in the main/side if running Solemnity?

[ComplexPants]

would it be worth running Glacial Chasm in the main/side if running this card?

"This card" meaning mirror? Seems like you would only get the benefit for one turn and 2 mana. You would need a recursion engine to make it work.

[Climax]

"This card" meaning mirror? Seems like you would only get the benefit for one turn and 2 mana. You would need a recursion engine to make it work.

i guess he was speaking about Solemnity. ; )

[RThomas-]

Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered.[/IMG]

By parsing the rules texts, it doesn't seem like it works that way. This might be because the operative word "get" would not affect Depths' enters-the-battlefield-with text. I would think of "get" as adding counters when it is already in play, not as changing its enters play. I had a similar situation with Melira, Sylvok Outcast in casual play once and we came to that conclusion. Any rule kings parse this more better?

[Claymore]

Solemnity works with Dark Depths. Depths has a replacement effect (If it would enter the battlefield, put X counters on it instead).

There's a description in the RG lands thread. Solemnity kills Walking Ballista as well.

Wrong color and slow for this deck, but with Knight and plenty of enchantments/artifacts that can benefit from this ability, I can see a new WG Enchantress Depths deck coming out of the wood works, fueled by Crop Rotation and Enlightened Tutor.

121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it’s on the battlefield and also to an object that’s given counters as it enters the battlefield.

[MDHackbert]

I went 4-0 in an LCQ for Vegas getting me 2 byes for the main event in which I had a record of 11-4. Net result was 13-4 in actually played matches.
List is Negator's most recent list with Hydroblast and Factory in the board. I can add it in if people really want.

LCQ:
W: Grixis Delver
W: MUD Post
W: Food Chain
W: Elves

GP Main Event:
Day 1: 6-3
2 Byes
W: Turbo Depths (Beat our own caseyc, #sorrynotsorry )
L: Unexpected Miracles
L: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Bant? Stoneblade
W: RG Lands
W: RG Lands
L: ANT

Day 2: 5-1
W: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Elves
W: Burn (forgot to SB Hydroblast, won anyway)
L: TES
W: Esper Stoneblade
W: ANT

I don't take good notes, but i can try to remember details if someone has questions.
Factory didn't have much opportunity to come in outside of the one delver match in the LCQ, and i never saw edict from him.

[ComplexPants]

I went 4-0 in an LCQ for Vegas getting me 2 byes for the main event in which I had a record of 11-4. Net result was 13-4 in actually played matches.
List is Negator's most recent list with Hydroblast and Factory in the board. I can add it in if people really want.

LCQ:
W: Grixis Delver
W: MUD Post
W: Food Chain
W: Elves

GP Main Event:
Day 1: 6-3
2 Byes
W: Turbo Depths (Beat our own caseyc, #sorrynotsorry )
L: Unexpected Miracles
L: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Bant? Stoneblade
W: RG Lands
W: RG Lands
L: ANT

Day 2: 5-1
W: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Elves
W: Burn (forgot to SB Hydroblast, won anyway)
L: TES
W: Esper Stoneblade
W: ANT

I don't take good notes, but i can try to remember details if someone has questions.
Factory didn't have much opportunity to come in outside of the one delver match in the LCQ, and i never saw edict from him.

Congrats, that is a great day 2 showing! I was there for the modern event, but couldn't make legacy. Bob Huang posted the top 64 and 2 GB Depths made it in there. I played a LCQ in legacy (for modern byes) and went 3-1. I actually lost to Bob, which is a bit of payback for EW. I beat him in the finals of the LCQ to get byes for that event. Lol. In the side events I played, I was 7-3 over all. Deck still works well and looks like we might be getting a couple new toys on HoD.

[PeterSouth]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtUXSvUIAArDYV.png

This seems bonkers good and bad for us. We have another Depths enabler but can be used against us as well.

I am not sure if this is a main deck card or not, but it has so many uses against so many decks. Short list I came up with:

Copy mom and give protection.
Copy show and tell fatties and attack
Copy opposing dark depths/Karakas/Maze
Copy Leovold to stop a ponder/brainstorm
Copy Grindstone to mill out a painter deck

I am sure there are lots more of cute things you can do with this card. The 3 cmc cost is a bit high, but seems to potentially create a lot of very awkward interactions and more complicated lines for decks.



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I currently run 4 ancient stirrings in my deck, so I'm excited about having more potential hits. Maybe mirror could get people rethinking ancient stirrings. Also, how does mirror interact with a pithing needle?

[MDHackbert]

I currently run 4 ancient stirrings in my deck, so I'm excited about having more potential hits. Maybe mirror could get people rethinking ancient stirrings. Also, how does mirror interact with a pithing needle?

A mirror copying a Needle shouldn't stop anything, just like a copy of painful truths put on the stack draws no cards. Needle mirror stops mirror from copying. Needle on mirror's target stops mirror from activating once a copy of whatever mirror is copying.

Questions?

[tarmogoat]

Is Solemnity a good reason to start running Deathrite Shaman in the mainboard? I mean as a mana dork, alt grindy wincon, protection from surgical, and answer to gy shenanigans. Having it MB and splashing white also gives access to Enlightened Tutor and Knight of the Reliquary, which in addition give access to finding Needles, Maps and Solemnities when you need em and having instant speed answers/protection through our lands.

Something like


4x Elvish Spirit Guide
3x Pithing Needle
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Enlightened Tutor
3x Solemnity
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Crop Rotation
3x Expedition Map
3x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Dark Depths
3x Thespian's Stage
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Karakas

1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Sylvan Library
4x Thorn of Amethyst


This might be going a in an altogether different direction from the concept of "Turbo" depths, but it seems like it can be a very rewarding path to take.

I know it's the spoiler season hype, but HOU seems to have some absurd mechanics in regards of not getting counters on permanents.

[ComplexPants]

I currently run 4 ancient stirrings in my deck, so I'm excited about having more potential hits. Maybe mirror could get people rethinking ancient stirrings. Also, how does mirror interact with a pithing needle?

Naming a card occurs when Pithing Needle ETB. Copying it does not cause a new pithing needle to ETB. Just like copying Dark Depths does not trigger it to gain new counters.