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Thread: The Dragonstorm

  1. #21

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    But why wasting another slot on a useless Dragon?
    Also, I really dislike Burning Wish here and I would recommend everyone to test it before posting lists with the Wish as an auto-include.
    Why no See Beyond?
    It is painful to play Dragonstrom via Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame and Seething Song. This deck needs the big bad black rituals.
    No - there are enough strong red rituals that you can chain up and go Rb, possibly playing Infernal Tutor to duplicate riutual-effects. So something like this:

    [cards]4 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Arid Mesa
    7 Mountain
    2 Swamp

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Seething Song
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Street Wraith

    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Bogardan Hellkiite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    3 Kokusho, the Evening Star

  2. #22
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    No - there are enough strong red rituals that you can chain up and go Rb, possibly playing Infernal Tutor to duplicate riutual-effects. So something like this:

    [cards]4 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Arid Mesa
    7 Mountain
    2 Swamp

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Seething Song
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Street Wraith

    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Bogardan Hellkiite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    3 Kokusho, the Evening Star
    So, you want to say the following:
    -Let's waste another +1 slot on useless dragons.
    -Let's play B for Infernal and some senseless Street Wraith but let's ignore Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual because
    we can search for weaker rituals with Infernal.
    -Let's ignore cantrips and be dependent on the topdeck
    -We don't need protection
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  3. #23
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    How about something like this:

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Preordain
    3 See Beyond /14

    4 Duress
    2 Thoughtseize /6

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Seeting Song /12

    4 Dragonstorm
    2 Thundermaw Hellkite
    1 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund /8

    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors /20

    Pro's:
    1. Two out of four dragons are castable.
    2. Storm 3 is enough for an instant Dragonstorm kill.
    3. Postboard we could even vast Karrthus, assuming we add green to the sideboard.

    Con's:
    1. A well timed Terminus stops our kill.
    2. Well, the usual con: Dragonstorm is rediculously slow.

  4. #24
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Okay...

    See Beyond? We have Brainstorm and fetches.

    No Burning Wish? It's like were playing with 4 extra copies of Dragonstorm, plus ANY other sorcery that can result in a kill. Don't have the mana but a wish? Go get Empty. Have the mana and no Dragonstorm? Wish for it. No brainer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  5. #25
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    How about something like this:

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Preordain
    3 See Beyond /14

    4 Duress
    2 Thoughtseize /6

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Seeting Song /12

    4 Dragonstorm
    2 Thundermaw Hellkite
    1 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund /8

    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors /20

    Pro's:
    1. Two out of four dragons are castable.
    2. Storm 3 is enough for an instant Dragonstorm kill.
    3. Postboard we could even vast Karrthus, assuming we add green to the sideboard.

    Con's:
    1. A well timed Terminus stops our kill.
    2. Well, the usual con: Dragonstorm is rediculously slow.
    Neat idea but it has to be defined how vulnerable the attack step may be. 4 Bogardans shot damage which can be blocked by Leyline but usually allow for a safe kill.
    T Hellkite makes dragons nearly unblockable which is definately a nice effect.
    I think that your "Con 2." is the point which demands most of our focus and widely rejects non-blue approaches.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  6. #26
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    Neat idea but it has to be defined how vulnerable the attack step may be. 4 Bogardans shot damage which can be blocked by Leyline but usually allow for a safe kill.
    T Hellkite makes dragons nearly unblockable which is definately a nice effect.
    I think that your "Con 2." is the point which demands most of our focus and widely rejects non-blue approaches.
    Yeah it's just not easy to make a list that works.
    I think the upsides of Thundermaw compensate for the vulnerability against Terminus.
    It's just that you every now and then draw an awkward hand, and have to improvise.
    The option of turn two Song into Thundermaw is pretty nice.
    It's a four turn clock, and if they have to block with Delver and Bolt it, at least it buys us time.

    Have you tried Lotus Bloom? Good against slower decks, but sucks big time against faster decks...
    Maybe it's an option for the sideboard? It pays for a third of the Dragonstorm, which is a great help.

    Out of the box idea:
    Tezzeret the Seeker and Grim Monolith
    This allows us to drop black (artifacts make the mana we need).
    Tezz is easily cast if we play enough sol lands and stuff that works with those.
    We could play a more controllish shell, with a combo finish.
    Probably a terrible idea, but worth looking into.

  7. #27
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Yeah it's just not easy to make a list that works.
    I think the upsides of Thundermaw compensate for the vulnerability against Terminus.
    It's just that you every now and then draw an awkward hand, and have to improvise.
    The option of turn two Song into Thundermaw is pretty nice.
    It's a four turn clock, and if they have to block with Delver and Bolt it, at least it buys us time.

    Have you tried Lotus Bloom? Good against slower decks, but sucks big time against faster decks...
    Maybe it's an option for the sideboard? It pays for a third of the Dragonstorm, which is a great help.

    Out of the box idea:
    Tezzeret the Seeker and Grim Monolith
    This allows us to drop black (artifacts make the mana we need).
    Tezz is easily cast if we play enough sol lands and stuff that works with those.
    We could play a more controllish shell, with a combo finish.
    Probably a terrible idea, but worth looking into.
    I am pretty sure that casting random dragons via rituals isn't the best route for a Legacy deck, which The Dragonstorm apparently tries to be.
    I have thought about Force of Will and some other counterspells as protection; similar to SneakShow's.
    U/R approach with Fire/Ice and Dig Through Time. I will post a list later maybe.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  8. #28
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Where are the Scourge of Valkas? At the very least, the first Scourge is better than the fourth Bogardan Hellkite.

    With 1 Scourge:

    Dragonstorm for 4 Dragons:
    Scourge - 1
    Hellkite - 2+5=7
    Hellkite - 3+5=8
    Hellkite - 4+5=9
    9+8+7+1=25 damage

    Dragonstorm for 3 Dragons:
    Scourge - 1
    Hellkite - 2+5=7
    Hellkite - 3+5=8
    8+7+1=16 damage

    With 2 Scourges:

    Dragonstorm for 4 Dragons:
    Scourge - 1
    Scourge - 2+2=4
    Hellkite - 3+3+5=11
    Hellkite - 4+4+5=13
    1+4+11+13=29 damage

    Dragonstorm for 3 Dragons:
    Scourge - 1
    Scourge - 2+2=4
    Hellkite - 3+3+5=11
    1+4+11=16 damage

    4 Hellkites is either 20 or 15 for 4 or 3 dragons, respectively.

  9. #29
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    Nice!
    I guess that I am not that familiar with the dragon tribe.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  10. #30

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    Where are the Scourge of Valkas? At the very least, the first Scourge is better than the fourth Bogardan Hellkite.

    ...
    If you're willing to risk removal:
    Scourge of Valkas (1)
    Scourge of Valkas (2+2)
    Broodmate Dragon (4+4+4+4)

    With 4 dragons, there's a champion loop using Changeling Berkserker

    Edit: It's fragile, but you can go infinite with three dragons:
    Scourge of Valkas
    Bladewing the Risen
    Changeling Bersker
    Re-Edit: This doesn't work because the Scourge damage is determined on resolution and will only do 2 to the bersker.

    Of course, all this is the easy part.
    Last edited by rufus; 12-04-2014 at 03:18 PM.

  11. #31
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    fancy stuff
    Certainly, this deck wants to win but let's leave the fancy stuff to the casual dudes.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  12. #32
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Years ago a friend played this deck to a great result ina big event.
    May be there is some ideas you can get.
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=7402&iddeck=53860

    Its like a mono red past in flames.
    I do think this dragonstorm deck needs more rituals, like rite of flame and so. More mana is never wrong. And silence can be the answer. Also while playing so many rituals passt in flames gets better.

  13. #33
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Togores View Post
    Years ago a friend played this deck to a great result ina big event.
    May be there is some ideas you can get.
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=7402&iddeck=53860

    Its like a mono red past in flames.
    I do think this dragonstorm deck needs more rituals, like rite of flame and so. More mana is never wrong. And silence can be the answer. Also while playing so many rituals passt in flames gets better.
    Hey Rodrigo, nice to have you here. ^^
    Thanks for the link. It sure looks like a weird list but nonetheless funny.

    Silence is a card which may work with The Dragonstorm. I will add this to the op post and try to build a list with white.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  14. #34
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    Re: The Dragonstorm

    You are welcome (:
    Just gave some ideas. Any kind of storm is good to have ^^

  15. #35

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    I'm not too familiar with this deck, but I noticed a new dragon being spoiled in FRF, and I immediately thought of this thread. I'm refering to Atarka, World Render. If you combine this with Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund you only need 2 dragons to attack for lethal (assuming no flying blockers or ensnaring bridges).
    http://www.mtgstocks.com for your daily MTG Finance!

  16. #36

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    How much benefit does black as a color offers? Not much. Black rituals can be raplaced with all-red rituals and artifact mana accelerants like Lotus Petal and Grim Monilith. You can play Pact of Negation, Flusterstorm, and Swan Swong (2/2 flyers gets tapped anyway) as disruption. Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose both generate storm count and dig for mana. Why not keep it strictly U/R? Also why is there no Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Crystal Veins?
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSettler View Post
    Jesus H Cardsheet died for your NFC sins.

  17. #37

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    You can cherry pick your 5 Dragons later after you get a 55-card storm deck running smoothly.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSettler View Post
    Jesus H Cardsheet died for your NFC sins.

  18. #38

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    I was wondering what is the biggest issue with this deck, is it getting mana fast enough or finding dragonstorm or protection? I'm trying to build this kind of a deck in modern and found out that RG with tronlands is the best so far. With green you can play tooth and nails as dragonstorm 5-8 and with this new double striking dragon it doesn't sound that bad. Green mana you can get from manamorphoses and artifacts like lotus petals and maybe manafilter-draw-rocks like chromatic star or even elvish spirit guide. This idea is just an another angle to think to make this deck more viable.

  19. #39

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    re: Tooth and Nail. You actually want dragons to be in your library, not just to enable Dragonstorm but for other obvious reasons as well. The second option of Tooth and Nail also doesn't go well with the theme as I mentioned, you'd want or (often) have storm enablers and DS/tutor in your hand than actual dragon creature cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSettler View Post
    Jesus H Cardsheet died for your NFC sins.

  20. #40

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Yeah I know, but with tooth and nail you can also win a game right away with 9 mana: search your deck for karrthus and atarka and put them into play. Then two haste double strikers for the win if they don't have flying blockers or removal. So it can replace tutors somehow but I think tutor is better for finding answers as well? But usually you have to use a tutor a turn before going off because our winning spells cost so much mana.

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