[BFZ]Battle for Zendikar spoilers thread

[Barook]

Huh? That just puts delved cards back into the GY so they can be Delve food again. The only thing it hoses is Tasigur.

Depends - they get Delve food back, you would get shitloads of tokens tha can ramp out of the ass, if necessary. It's a trade-off.

And I still wonder how it interacts with Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace, which might be the most important interaction, assuming it does even work.

[MGB]

This card violates fundamental rules of Magic in that it uses the exile zone as a resource. MaRo and others on the design team have repeatedly expressed how hesitant they would be to begin using the exile zone as a resource because at that point, there is no other zone to access beyond it. Once things go to exile, they are to be treated as "removed from game" and to keep them in the game with such easy access by players basically just turns Exile into another Graveyard and destroys the purpose of having the separate exile zone demarcation in the first place.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler. It's a sign that they're running out of design space and are beginning to cannibalize the fundamental aspects of the game.

[iamajellydonut]

And I still wonder how it interacts with Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace, which might be the most important interaction, assuming it does even work.

Just as Millikin still works through Rest in Peace, this should also continue to function so long as the wording doesn't get wonky upon official spoiling.

Just because the cards immediately get exiled doesn't mean there's not still a graveyard to refer to. You can still target said empty graveyard with a Tormod's Crypt and the like.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler.

Agreed with the general sentiment. I feel like they're tampering with something sacred. My hope is that it's bound to this single block.

[rufus]

...

Rule question: Can you actually pay the activation cost with LotV/RiP in play? Technically, the cards can never hit the GY due to replacement effects.

Otherwise, it needs to combo with Planar Void.

Costs can be replaced. It's like the Void Maw + Yawgmoth's Will combo.

You'd need something with "can't" analogous to Maralen of the Mornsong to prevent activation.

[Barook]

Just as Millikin still works through Rest in Peace, this should also continue to function so long as the wording doesn't get wonky upon official spoiling.

In that case the card is fucking fantastic. Now let's see it turns out to be 2 mana (something I hope not to curse later on).

Maybe somebody comes up with a deck that runs LotV/RiP + Helm combo + this as back-up? E-Tutor could grab any of the combo pieces. The tokens also ramp into Helm if you're short on mana for whatever reason.

This card violates fundamental rules of Magic in that it uses the exile zone as a resource. MaRo and others on the design team have repeatedly expressed how hesitant they would be to begin using the exile zone as a resource because at that point, there is no other zone to access beyond it. Once things go to exile, they are to be treated as "removed from game" and to keep them in the game with such easy access by players basically just turns Exile into another Graveyard and destroys the purpose of having the separate exile zone demarcation in the first place.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler. It's a sign that they're running out of design space and are beginning to cannibalize the fundamental aspects of the game.

Maro already answered that in his blog after people started bitching about it.

They were very hesitant to do it and only limited it to your opponent's exile zone since it's so much harder to abuse than your own exile zone.

[iamajellydonut]

Maybe somebody comes up with a deck that runs LotV/RiP + Helm combo + this as back-up? E-Tutor could grab any of the combo pieces. The tokens also ramp into Helm if you're short on mana for whatever reason.

This was my first thought. Totally switching decks if it happens.

[Darkenslight]

What?

Darkenslight spoiled the supposed card completely wrong:

Cost (either or )
Enchantment
Devoid
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, exile the top card of that player's library.
, put a card from exile an opponent owns into its owners graveyard: Put a 1/1 Eldrazi scion token onto the battlefield with "Sacrifice this creature: Add to your mana pool."

You can't exile your own cards to abuse it. It's actually a pseudo-hoser for opposing Delve cards.

...my bad. I MTFC, instead of RTFC. Apologies.

[rufus]

In that case the card is fucking fantastic. Now let's see it turns out to be 2 mana (something I hope not to curse later on).

It doesn't seem so compelling to me: Suppose the activation cost was just 1 mana - would it be legacy playable then? I'm not sure it would be, and returning cards to the opponent's graveyard is almost exclusively downside.

[iamajellydonut]

It doesn't seem so compelling to me: Suppose the activation cost was just 1 mana - would it be legacy playable then? I'm not sure it would be, and returning cards to the opponent's graveyard is almost exclusively downside.

The latter part of his post is what matters. Instead of having Helm and Leyline and Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, you have Helm and Leyline and RIP and BFZ Enchantment. Much more tidy. Also rather sexy.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Guys, what the hell is this? Something resembling excitement on The Source? Not to be a killjoy, but you KNOW it won't be printed at an aggressive cost. Most likely it will be the mana cost you're hoping for + .

[iamajellydonut]

Guys, what the hell is this? Something resembling excitement on The Source? Not to be a killjoy, but you KNOW it won't be printed at an aggressive cost. Most likely it will be the mana cost you're hoping for + .

shh...

baby, shh...

[Barook]

The latter part of his post is what matters. Instead of having Helm and Leyline and Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, you have Helm and Leyline and RIP and BFZ Enchantment. Much more tidy. Also rather sexy.

It's also notable that the tokens are basically impossible to get rid off once you have the combo.

Nice Terminus/Golgari Charm/Zealous Persecution/whatever, sac everything for mana, let your sweeper effect resolve, get new tokens.

Guys, what the hell is this? Something resembling excitement on The Source? Not to be a killjoy, but you KNOW it won't be printed at an aggressive cost. Most likely it will be the mana cost you're hoping for + .

I also have a hard time believing they would allow token recycling that easily.

But hey, a man can dream.

[bruizar]

Just a mention of Dryad Militant, Withered Wretch and Scavenging Ooze with this thing. Too bad Ooze requires , otherwise you could get infinite life and a lethal Ooze with it.

[Barook]

Just a mention of Dryad Militant, Withered Wretch and Scavenging Ooze with this thing. Too bad Ooze requires , otherwise you could get infinite life and a lethal Ooze with it.

You couldn't go infinite with Ooze even if it costed to activate, since the mana the tokens produce go directly into making new tokens instead of fueling the GY removal shenanigans.

[Cire]

Wait. . . what's the combo? Seems like it just gives you infinite ETB effects if you have something like essence warden out. . . . .

[PirateKing]

Wait. . . what's the combo? Seems like it just gives you infinite ETB effects if you have something like essence warden out. . . . .

You need cards in your opponents Exile, so no, not infinite.

[Zombie]

Wait. . . what's the combo? Seems like it just gives you infinite ETB effects if you have something like essence warden out. . . . .

Can also be used as a Thopter Foundry style token generator that gives you shittons of ramp. Bonus points because half the combo pieces are live, severe hate cards.

[Richard Cheese]

This card violates fundamental rules of Magic in that it uses the exile zone as a resource. MaRo and others on the design team have repeatedly expressed how hesitant they would be to begin using the exile zone as a resource because at that point, there is no other zone to access beyond it. Once things go to exile, they are to be treated as "removed from game" and to keep them in the game with such easy access by players basically just turns Exile into another Graveyard and destroys the purpose of having the separate exile zone demarcation in the first place.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler. It's a sign that they're running out of design space and are beginning to cannibalize the fundamental aspects of the game.

This is just a natural consequence of turning "removed from the game" into another zone...within the game. At this point Phased Out is the closest we get to actually RFG'd. Also don't forget that Pull from Eternity and Misthollow Griffin are already a thing, and abilities like Suspend and Cascade really just treat exile as another zone.

Agreed with the general sentiment. I feel like they're tampering with something sacred. My hope is that it's bound to this single block.

Yeah next thing you know they'll be printing shit on the backs of the cards and giving Blue hyper-aggressive creatures.

[Kathal]

That thing, Rest in Peace (or Leyline of the Void) and Purphoros, God of the Forge = dead

Although, this only works, if it really costs only 1 to activate.

Greetings,
Kathal

[MGB]

In that case the card is fucking fantastic. Now let's see it turns out to be 2 mana (something I hope not to curse later on).

Maybe somebody comes up with a deck that runs LotV/RiP + Helm combo + this as back-up? E-Tutor could grab any of the combo pieces. The tokens also ramp into Helm if you're short on mana for whatever reason.


Maro already answered that in his blog after people started bitching about it.

They were very hesitant to do it and only limited it to your opponent's exile zone since it's so much harder to abuse than your own exile zone.

It still sets a dangerous precedent. Now Exile is just another Graveyard? There is no finality to exiling things anymore. This opens the door for future cards which use Exile like another hand just like graveyard usage opened the door for Dredge to basically turn their entire graveyard into their hand.