Sounds dumb. Format would become a slightly more powerful modern. But modern is a slightly more powerful standard which is why it blows. Just remove the reserved list, I'd rather play this game than watch my cards collect dust.Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
Edit: Lets say for the sake of argument Legacy dies. Would these collectors/hoarders be able to move any of their collection? Would they still hold value? It makes more sense to me that they remove the reserved list and make something like Legacy Masters. Drafting that would be awesome and it would get more people into the game. It wouldn't affect prices that much, just look at Tarmogoyf, Clique and Dark confidant.
If you're going to do something to this effect (large change in the parameters of the format) making modern start with Masques makes more sense in my opinion, it skirts around the reserved list by starting with the first set not affected by it and includes plenty of cards (Cabal Therapy most notably imo) that would be great in modern but possibly too good in standard.
Therapy, Pyromancer, and Probe having a steamy threesome would spaff all over the face of Modern and initiate the apocalypse.
Lord of the Chalice
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You say that like its a bad thing
I just ran through the sets real quick and from Masques to 8th, here's the major stuff I saw that would be added. I'm amazed how much more like legacy-lite the format would look:
Masques
Brainstorm
Counterspell
Energy Flux
Misdirection
Dark Ritual
Unmask
Pulverize
Food Chain
Dust Bowl
Rihadan Port
Tower of the Magistrate
Nemesis
Lin Sivvi (and the rest of her gang)
Daze
Submerge
Massacre
Flame Rift
Invasion
Ana, Ceta, Necra, Raka, Dega as the names for the wedges
Fact or Fiction
Sterling Grove
Planeshift:
Vindicate
Apocalypse
Fire//Ice
Odyssey
Careful Study
Standstill
Entomb
Tainted Pact
Torment
Many cards key to building a Madness deck
Chainers Edict
Cabal Coffers
Judgement
Golden Wish
Burning Wish
Cunning Wish
Envelop
Mental Note
Cabal Therapy
Worldgorger Dragon
Riftstone Portal
Onslaught
Allied fetch lands years earlier
Astral Slide and the things required to make that a deck
True Believer
Chain of Vapor
Riptide Lab
Goblin Piledriver years earlier
Goblin Sharpshooter
Slice and Dice
Birchlore Rangers
Enchantress’s Presence
Legions
Gempalm Incinerator
Scourge
Decree of Justice
Brain Freeze
Mind’s Desire
Stifle
Tendrils of Agony
Pyrostatic Pillar
Sulfuric Vortex
Wirewood Symbiote
And that's just the cards that I noticed in a quick run. I'm sure there are some I missed and I wasn't even looking for synergies that might exist.
Goblins and Elves get huge boosts.
Control gets Brainstorm and Counterspell
Combo gets... well, an ungodly number of things.
Tempo gets Daze, Stifle, and Submerge
Foodchain as well as possibly Madness, Rebels, and Cycling.dec all become possible additions to the metagame.
DEED THAT IS PERNICIOUS
That is all.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
There's no chance in hell they would allow Brainstorm and Dark Ritual in Modern. They would get banned asap, considering shittier cards are on the Banned List.
I'd love me some Ports and Dust Bowls in Modern D&T, though.
Edit: As for the article: Not mentioning of D&T seems wrong - it loses absolutely nothing since it has no cards on the Reserve List while the manabase of everybody else gets extremely shitty and potentially loses key cards, too. Ports and Wasteland preying on a Shockland manabase is a massacre.
In this Legacy-lite format, DnT and Merfolk are so~~ strong, follow by Miracles (runs enough Basic), follow by Burn. Kill off combo cards like LED and Cradle. Without Null Rod..., everyone runs needle to stop Vial and SDT?
Given the quality and type of cards being introduced into the format, I doubt the banlist would remain the same. Better disruption (Counterspell and Cabal Therapy) means it's less safe to play Combo and Linear strategies and better to play a reactionary/disruptive deck.
No reserved list legacy seems poor for D&T, Tempo decks with daze basically aren't playable with shocklands (as they are currently built) which compromise a large part of D&T positive match ups in the field right now. We'd likely see more infect and miracles, as the 2 damage basically means nothing to infect as they are aiming to win in the area of turn 2-4 and Miracles can be built with Battle Lands and Mystic Gate and barely notice the difference.
Stony Silence is a card.
I on the otherhand don't think Counterspell and Cabal Therapy would do enough to prevent the flood of combo that would come from this. Lack of FoW seems like a big problem. Sure Cabal Therapy (and maybe Counterspell... maybe) would be format warping for Modern, but I don't think they do enough against all the other legacy quality cards introduced.
That said, though, I'd wholeheartedly support a Legacy Restricted format, in which the Reserved List is restricted instead of banned.
No reserved List?! I call it Bullshit...Don't play legacy if you don't want to buy the cards.^^
So Modern+. No thanks.
♀
I didnt list any reserved list cards.
edit: scrolled down
No wastelands, plus Sandstone Needle is big.
Instead of replacing a great format (Legacy) with a diluted "Modern plus" because of the implications of the Reserved List in the distant future, why not replace a format that is shitty right now (Modern) with this No Reserved List Eternal format instead?
This was a rhetorical question, but that possibility wasn't considered in the article because it's for a website geared to financiers/speculators rather than to players.
Personally, the loss of Mox Diamond and Dual Lands would end my current enjoyment in Legacy.
We all agree the list is bad, but you don't solve the issue by cutting out so much of the format. Because you take out the soul of the format if you so drastically change its core.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
This. Virtually all the most interesting decks - those that can exist only in a format like Legacy - will get hurt or killed. Lands, painter, Elves, MUD, as well as fringier decks like Belcher, High Tide, Pox, Enchantress and more.
Dice nailed it - this would suck the soul out of Legacy
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Read the article the other day, and frankly, it was one of the stupidest things I'd read in some time. And I read the news.
What would banning everything on the reserved list actually solve? Seems the author was flailing for a nice, arbitrary designator for a group of cards that would include Stuff He(?) Doesn't Like, and that's how the reserved list came up.
Let's be honest: there are specific cards that define Legacy play and have always defined Legacy play (and competitive magic in the eternal formats) for as long as the format's been around. THOSE CARDS AREN'T ALL ON THE RESERVED LIST. Force of Will isn't on the list, yet Grandmother Sengir is. So the reserved list is not a guide for determining a card's playability, and thus, the author's argument doesn't really have any bearing on the gameplay of the format, and everything about gameplay that he says subsequent to his suggestion is nonsensical speculation.
If people complain about the price of the cards on the reserved list, and if the author's primary concern is economic in nature, why doesn't he realize that banning those cards not only would hurt collectors, but would cause the prices of "the next best things" to skyrocket? Storytime: I moved halfway across the country not long ago and sold about ten thousand junk commons I'd accumulated over my sixteen years of playing the game. I had, at the time, seven to nine copies of Serum Visions, that mediocre cantrip nobody cared about beause Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Sensei's Divining Top, etc. are cards that exist. I threw all but a playset of the Visions into repacks for our family's glorified garage-sale, thinking I couldn't move them on e-bay without paying as much in shipping as they were worth, and I didn't think more about it. Until everyone realized, a couple of months later, that bans had made Serum Visions the best cantrip in Modern, and the price quintupled.
Yeah, Serum Visions isn't anything like Candelabra or Imperial Recruiter or the duals, but I tell that story to ask these questions: what would happen to the price of shocklands if duals were banned in Legacy? They'd go up. Maybe way up. Would the increase in the price of said shocks help people get into the format? No. Would it hurt the odds that prospective players would get into Modern because of the collateral effect of increasing prices? Yes. Would banning duals have an adverse effect on the people who are Legacy stalwarts? Yes. Why? Because the price of their duals would go down and many people, I think, would take such bannings as a whipcrack to the jimmies. Would it "solve the problem with Legacy" to ban duals, City of Traitors, etc.? No, and there never WAS a problem, at least as far as gameplay is concerned.
I've complained about card prices for years, and I won't argue that it's not tough to sink hundreds of dollars into the land-base for a deck that's otherwise pretty similar to its incarnation in other formats. But if anything is killing Legacy, it's the stupidity of people who don't seem to notice that Tarmogoyf is more expensive than most of the dual lands, not the price of said dual lands or the fact that they're not coming back.
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