[DECK] Hedron Alignment Combo

[Malchar]

You can cast intuition for three hedrons and end up with one in hand. Then cast infernal tutor to get the fourth hedron into your hand. In this case, infernal tutor acts like an extra copy of hedron giving you more chances to assemble the combo. The odds are improved, so you need to find one of four copies of intuition plus one of eight copies of hedron or tutor. Tutor is also a "wild card" finding either of the two pieces if you are hellbent.

Aside from tutor, I would imagine an ideal play sequence like this:
Turn 1: Island, Relic of Progenitus
Turn 2: Ancient Tomb, Hedron
Turn 3: upkeep trigger, respond with Intuition and relic to win.

You can get a lot of redundancy in relic effects and fast mana which gives you many more chances to get the dream hand. You can also take a turn off to cast cantrips and setup protection if you need to. Playing draw-go with a blue deck isn't the worst place to be.

It's a shame that force of will and chrome mox don't work nicely with intuition. You would have to regrowth one hedron, and it that point it's starting to become a four card combo.

[Kagehisa]

I was trying to resolve a Hedron Alignment + Gift Ungiven scenario.

The candidates to the pile were Entomb, Extract, Hedron Alignment, Regrowth, Snapcaster Mage, Surgical Extraction, Infernal Tutor, Flash of Insight, LDV and Pull from Eternity. Then I realized the cards needed to be instant speed. I gave up.

The theory behind is simple. Extract was supposed to exile one Hedron, Entomb to put one in the graveyard, etc.

Still... Surgical Extraction is free if you need it to exile one Hedron. You can even have a look at your opponent's hand by targeting any card in his/her graveyard.

I am sure there's someone on the forum who can resolve the puzzle!

[rufus]

I was trying to resolve a Hedron Alignment + Gift Ungiven scenario.

...

I am sure there's someone on the forum who can resolve the puzzle!

I think it's too hard. You could pile together something like Insidious Dreams, Intuition,Gifts Ungiven and Think Twice, but the opponent will do you in while you're futzing about.

[Cire]

Aside from tutor, I would imagine an ideal play sequence like this:
Turn 1: Island, Relic of Progenitus
Turn 2: Ancient Tomb, Hedron
Turn 3: upkeep trigger, respond with Intuition and relic to win.

Surgical Extraction also does the same thing as Relic for 2 life instead of 1 mana ("Any number of cards" means just that. If you wish, you can choose to leave some or all of the cards with the same name as the targeted card, including that card, in the zone they're in.)

So full on combo will be?

Turn 1: U/W land, Relic of Progenitus (If you have Surgical, you can use this turn for tutor, or even mox plus scroll)
Turn 2: Sol Land, Lotus Petal/Chrome Mox + exile, Enlightened tutor, Gitaxian Probe/Street Wraith, Hedron
Turn 3: If Intuition in hand - upkeep trigger, respond with Intuition and relic to win. - otherwise cast Merchant Scroll.
Turn 4: If you didn't go off turn 3, Repeat turn 3 steps.

9 U/W Lands
8 Sol lands
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Relic of Progentius
4 Intuition
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Hedron
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will

Obviously a lot of that is suboptimal - you may remove the scrolls and accel for more draw/control - but this is the best "all in" list I can come up with.

Edit - less all in, I would remove chrome mox/wraith/scroll for brainstorm, ponder, daze.

[MGB]

Just lost to this deck online on Turn 3 after he played Hedron Alignment turn 2 with Island + Ancient Tomb, then in his upkeep in response to Alignment trigger he cast Intuition for 3 more copies, then used Faerie Macabre to exile one of the copies in his graveyard.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable combo deck.

[Cire]

Just lost to this deck online on Turn 3 after he played Hedron Alignment turn 2 with Island + Ancient Tomb, then in his upkeep in response to Alignment trigger he cast Intuition for 3 more copies, then used Faerie Macabre to exile one of the copies in his graveyard.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable combo deck.

Totally forgot Faerie Macabre!

Here is the "all in deck"

Turn 1: U/W land, If you have Hedron in hand, nothing. If you do not -- Enlightend Tutor.
Turn 2: Sol Land, Hedron
Turn 3: If Intuition in hand - upkeep trigger, respond with Intuition and surgical/Faerie to win. - otherwise cast Merchant Scroll.
Turn 4: If you didn't go off turn 3, Repeat turn 3 steps.

9 U/W Lands
8 Sol lands
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Intuition
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Hedron
4 Force of Will
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Daze
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Pact of Negation

I think that's pretty good for a turn 3/4 combo deck? Fairly reliable - running 8 draw card, 12 protection spells, and combo pieces which double as draw and maindeck graveyard hate. . . and the enchantment component of the combo cannot be targeted . . . and most cards in the deck pitch to blue.

Seriously that's not bad.

Only cards that really needs to be excised and replaced is the Merchant scroll

[jrsthethird]

Just an FYI for anyone who wants to try goofy shit with face-down exile cards: too bad!

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...tes-2016-01-13

The Hedron Alignment in exile must be face up. If it’s face down, it won’t count, even if you are allowed to look at it.

[Kagehisa]

I think it's too hard. You could pile together something like Insidious Dreams, Intuition,Gifts Ungiven and Think Twice, but the opponent will do you in while you're futzing about.

You are right. It is too hard. With one Hedron already in play AND an Surgical Extraction effect in hand, Gifts Ungiven need this pile:

Hedron Alignment
Entomb
Snapcaster Mage
Regrowth effect (or Noxious Revival if you have a cantrip in hand)

Ideally, the opponent gives Hedron and Entomb in hand. With Hedron in hand, the other 3 cards will end with Entomb being casted.

The worst combinaison for you is Snapcaster Mage and Regrowth. Snapcaster targeting Entomb and Regrowth targeting Hedron.

4 mana for Gifts and 5 mana for Snap, Entomb and Regrowth.

I may be wrong and ashamed.

It's a very very bad 3 cards combo. I am disappointed.

[Malchar]

One if the nice things about casting gifts or intuition is that your opponent has no idea which pieces you actually need. Even if they understand the combo, they don't know which cards you already have in your hand. As hard as it is for us to figure out the right pile, the opponent doesn't even have all the information.

[apple713]

One if the nice things about casting gifts or intuition is that your opponent has no idea which pieces you actually need. Even if they understand the combo, they don't know which cards you already have in your hand. As hard as it is for us to figure out the right pile, the opponent doesn't even have all the information.

Unless they are playing discards or probe.... So maybe they wont know 70% of the time.

I am strongly believe this deck has zero potential over othets in the format. Having played dark depths combo alot , i understand how big of an obstacle waiting until your next upkeep is. It makes you generally unfavored against other combo decks.

Im trying to think of good matchs for this deck and drawing a blank. Liliana seems really good against it. Miracles is probably bad too. Ant is faster so thats not good. The combo is mana intensive so d&t is probably hard. All those. Decks combined make up a large part of the format.

[Cire]

Unless they are playing discards or probe.... So maybe they wont know 70% of the time.

I am strongly believe this deck has zero potential over othets in the format. Having played dark depths combo alot , i understand how big of an obstacle waiting until your next upkeep is. It makes you generally unfavored against other combo decks.

I am not arguing that my version is the best: but as a benefit against Dark Depths, the permanent that needs to land before your next upkeep has hexproof and the combo doesn't require going to combat.

On that note: what is the criteria to be a combo deck contender in this format?

Which dedicated combo deck is the fastest?
Which dedicated combo deck is the most consistent?
Which dedicated combo deck has the most protection?
Can this deck be somewhere in the middle of all of the above?
Is it worth it then?

[apple713]

I am not arguing that my version is the best: but as a benefit against Dark Depths, the permanent that needs to land before your next upkeep has hexproof and the combo doesn't require going to combat.

On that note: what is the criteria to be a combo deck contender in this format?

Which dedicated combo deck is the fastest?
Which dedicated combo deck is the most consistent?
Which dedicated combo deck has the most protection?
Can this deck be somewhere in the middle of all of the above?
Is it worth it then?

Ant and S&T are the gold standard. Reanimator is probably faster but less consistent.

The reason depths lose to other combo is because we die on the opponents turn before we attack. It makes no difference what part of the turn we win on. Its not because other combo decks are removing our token, its because we are 1 turn slower.

Also, depths has a unique advantage of having its combo pieces be lands, thus uncounterable.

[Cire]

Ant and S&T are the gold standard. Reanimator is probably faster but less consistent.

The reason depths lose to other combo is because we die on the opponents turn before we attack. It makes no difference what part of the turn we win on. Its not because other combo decks are removing our token, its because we are 1 turn slower.

Also, depths has a unique advantage of having its combo pieces be lands, thus uncounterable.

How about something like this:

Deck Name	Goldfish	Protection Run
Belcher/Oops all Land/SI	1-2	0?
Ant/reanimator	2-3	7?
Dark Depths	3-4	13?

There should be another column measuring consistency but I don't know how to represent that.

So if we manage to tool the deck to have a win turn of 2-3 and 8+ protection spells or 3-4 and 14+ protection spells, we should be at least in the realm of "Playable"?

Edit - on an unrelated note: if anyone wants to fill up that chart with all the well known combo decks, that would be awesome! Maybe another chart with Search/Draw spells run?

[FTW]

"Oops all lands" is the worst deck ever:


4 Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Treetop Village
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Maze of Ith
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


You probably want to cap at 43 lands max.

"Oops All Spells" has a turn 1 goldfish or auto-concedes. The only way it goes off on turn 2 is if you had to mull to 5 and then have the combo but need to draw into another mana source. Otherwise you would keep mulling into oblivion as taking draw steps doesn't really do anything to help the deck. SI has so much redundancy that it rarely gets an unusable 7 and 6, so again, usually turn 1. Belcher, on the other hand, IS actually a "turn 1 to something else" goldfish because of some awkward openers or because Goblin tokens are slow. Consistency for these decks is measured by turn 1 goldfish success rate, which has been determined by computer simulators and extensive playtesting.

For other combo, you probably measure consistency based on number of cards that protect it vs ease to hate out. Anything using the GY becomes easier to hate out, so even though Reanimator can run even more protection than SneakShow (as many counters + discard), I'd call it less consistent because there are more things that stop the combo (i.e. your protection spells are spread thin dealing with more potential obstacles).

This deck really shouldn't use Doomsday. If you are running a deck that intends to resolve Doomsday, there are just other builds (eg Smmemmen LabMan) that also use <=4 dead slots but have more flexible piles to go off through tougher conditions. If you're already resolving Doomsday, you're shooting yourself in the foot by running inferior piles.

I like the Intuition + exile plan. Is Ground Seal overkill to protect the Intuition pile from DRS and friends? You can always exile your own card by casting a Delve spell or using Relic.

[Kagehisa]

@Chrome Mox @Force of Will

If you exile one Hedron Alignment with any of the two cards, Intuition still can do the job if you have an instant speed cantrip. Get 2 Hedron Alignment and Noxious Revival.

@Malchar

It is true but too hard. I made only the pile in the case I have Surgical Extraction in hand but there are many others scenarios to think about.

* "I have Surgical Extraction in hand" pile
* "I have one Hedron in exile" pile
* "I have one Hedron in hand" pile
* "I have one Hedron in graveyard" pile
* "I have Entomb in hand pile" pile
* "I have Entomb in graveyard" pile
* "I have an instant speed cantrip in hand" pile
...
Etc

And... Intuition still being better except maybe for the Gifts Ungiven and Unburial Rites + fatty combo.

[Poron]

Manipulate Fate + Intuition and you have already finished..

[Deadweight]

Intuition still can do the job if you have an instant speed cantrip. Get 2 Hedron Alignment and Noxious Revival.

Manipulate Fate + Intuition and you have already finished..

Fixed card tags. That's not... that's not how Intuition works. You will be left with no Hedron Alignment in hand or on the battlefield.

Just lost to this deck online on Turn 3 after he played Hedron Alignment turn 2 with Island + Ancient Tomb, then in his upkeep in response to Alignment trigger he cast Intuition for 3 more copies, then used Faerie Macabre to exile one of the copies in his graveyard.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable combo deck.

Perfect hand is perfect. Seems like a worse 3-card combo deck to me.

This deck really shouldn't use Doomsday. If you're already resolving Doomsday, you're shooting yourself in the foot by running inferior piles.

I like the Intuition + exile plan. Is Ground Seal overkill to protect the Intuition pile from DRS and friends? You can always exile your own card by casting a Delve spell or using Relic.

So Doomsday is bad. But somehow Hedron Alignment + Intuition + throwing 2 more cards in the combo makes absolute sense? Also, DRS can't exile enchantments from graveyards.

[Kagehisa]

Fixed card tags. That's not... that's not how Intuition works. You will be left with no Hedron Alignment in hand or on the battlefield.

I was lazy to explain step by step but it seems necessary because it is internet.

The combo is Hedron Alignment in play + Intuition casted when the Hedron trigger is on the stack + Faerie Macabre/a delve spell/Surgical Extraction/Relic, etc. Chrome Mox or FOW exiling Hedron was said not attractive because it would make Intuition not able to accomplish its duty. My opinion is that there is a way to make Intuition still work. The condition is having an instant speed cantrip effect.

The scenario is:

Hedron #1 exiled by FOW or Chrome Mox
Hedron #2 in play
Hedron #3 and 4 in library

During upkeep, with Hedron #2 trigger in the stack, cast Intuition for Hedron #3 and 4 and Noxious Revival. Resolve. You now have Hedron #3 and 4 in graveyard (if the opponent is not bad at Magic) and Noxious Revival in hand. Cast it. Resolve. (Hedron #3 on top of library.) Use an instant speed cantrip effect like Brainstorm in hand, SDT in play, Street Wraith, Opt or whatever... Resolve. (Hedron #3 in hand.) Resolve Hedron #2 trigger ability.

Hedron #1 exiled by Chrome Mox or FOW
Hedron #2 in play
Hedron #3 in hand
Hedron #4 in graveyard

Does it work now?

Besides, I have no idea what Poron meant (No offense).

@Ground Seal: it might prevent you from targetting your own Hedron with Faerie Macabre or Surgical Extraction. But maybe you plan using delve spells only. Edit: nevermind... lol

[FTW]

So Doomsday is bad. But somehow Hedron Alignment + Intuition + throwing 2 more cards in the combo makes absolute sense? Also, DRS can't exile enchantments from graveyards.

Doomsday is a good Hedron Alignment enabler. But Hedron Alignment is a bad Doomsday win condition.

If you've resolved Doomsday in a Doomsday deck, you should trivially be able to win (otherwise you built the wrong pile or should have sculpted more before casting Doomsday). The obstacle is sculpting your initial gas and resolving the Doomsday. Beyond that, the deck just wants a set of cards that yields both a compact win condition and options to win around diverse board states. Other versions of Doomsday do that better. So once you have a good Doomsday shell, you have to ask yourself what the point of running Hedron Alignment at all is. It'd be like running Reanimator with Akroma, Angel of Wrath instead of Griselbrand. Sure, you could do it to say that you won games with Akroma. But you'd just be running a worse version of an existing deck (which is bad both for winning and creativity).

Yeah, DRS can't hit it, but lots of other stuff can. Ground Seal is bad but confers some protection. I mean you autolose to Surgical Extraction/Extirpate, so not being vulnerable to those cards seems useful.

[FTW]

Could this work in a BlueChantress shell?


//Creatures: 4
4 Argothian Enchantress

//Enchantments: 29
4 Exploration
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Hedron Alignment
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Propaganda
3 Holistic Wisdom
2 Words of Wind
1 Bearscape

//Spells: 7
4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition

//Lands: 20
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
3 Forest
1 Island

//Sideboard: 15
3 Ground Seal
3 Seal of Primordium
4 Force of Will
1 Propaganda
1 Delusions of Mediocrity
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Back to Basics


Instead of trying to combo off immediately (requires many moving pieces, particularly "bad cards"), I tried looking at the problem a different way: How can we put Hedron Alignment in a deck where the card itself doesn't totally suck before you go off? Enter Enchantress. Now, at worst, Alignment is a hexproof cantripping enchantment.

The goal is to take control of the game (which this particular build may not do well, but other variations might do better) and then win with Alignment when you have the appropriate pieces.

As before, Intuition solves the issue of getting Alignment into the hand and/or GY zone. Drawing through your deck should solve the issue of getting one in hand and/or in play. Instead of having to run MD GY hate that is otherwise card disadvantage, Holistic Wisdom can both get Alignment into exile and solve the issue of too many copies in the wrong zone. Too many copies stuck in GY? You can return one to hand (and then either exile it, play it, or keep it in hand). Too many copies in hand and none in exile? It's easy to exile one. Words of Wind even lets you deal with the issue of too many copies on the battlefield. Bearscape can exile a copy too. Between all these tools, you can easily solve the problem of Hedrons getting stuck in the wrong zone (as long as you don't get 2 in exile... so aim to exile a copy at the very end, with win on the stack).

Now, none of these options are fast, but they do give you an inevitable enchantment-based "I Win" for the deck once you can lock the game down. The deck also has a Plan B win condition via Words locking out the game.

Holistic Wisdom has some interesting interactions with the rest of the deck, letting you pitch redundant enchantments to recycle control pieces. Intuition also tutors for a lot of useful Enchantress things, even 1-ofs thanks to Holistic Wisdom engine.

Post-board you have a couple protection options:
-countermagic to protect against disruption
-Ground Seal to protect against GY meddling
-more anti-aggro to stay alive
-plan C (Emrakul), which doubles as anti-mill

Maybe this is just a worse version of current Blue Enchantress, although I'd argue the current version doesn't have a way to combo out like this. Or, maybe this could be tuned better.