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Thread: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

  1. #41
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    If they didn't have the rights to some of the best IPs in the game they would have gone bankrupt years ago. Usually when a company does something silly its usually to make more money and understandable, but I honestly cant seem to understand how WOTC's actions would fit in this category. It is almost like they are actively trying to make their product as unappealing as they can. Under competent management MTG would be an absolute juggernaut in gaming, just look at how far hearthstone has gone despite being an inferior game, but unfortunately we have to settle for the mediocrity they love to deliver time and time again.
    Most likely because Hasbro isn't interrested in looking at WotC as long as they produce money, so there is no wonder WotC became too inbreed (*cough* LaPille *cough*) in terms of design & marketing and the game totally dependent on StarCityGames & ChannelFireball to be promoted and organized. The game would be dead without SCG/CF in north america, so the companies have developed a very unhealthy relationship considering SCG/CF have their grip on the secondary market and are the default tournament organizer, with an ear on the door of future MtG releases

    I am no way surprised if SCG & CF are involved in the tournament schedule planning process. I mean even the French events are organized by CF the upcoming season.
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  2. #42
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    I wonder what effect this will have on registration for GP Chiba this year...

  3. #43

    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    This is kind of interesting. https://twitter.com/HeleneBergeot/st...09606217744385

    Basically they removed Legacy GP in order to give slots to "more accessible formats" for the benefit of players who "started recently". If this is not the evidence of WotC trying to kill or at least marginalise Legacy, then I don't know what is.
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  4. #44

    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Eternal Weekend it's a one more thing: it can't substitute a Grand Prix.

  5. #45

    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Claw_Outcast View Post
    This is kind of interesting. https://twitter.com/HeleneBergeot/st...09606217744385

    Basically they removed Legacy GP in order to give slots to "more accessible formats" for the benefit of players who "started recently". If this is not the evidence of WotC trying to kill or at least marginalise Legacy, then I don't know what is.
    C'mon guys, lets at least be serious. How on earth is WotC supposed to support a format based around a set of cards they cannot reprint?

    The only serious support legacy will ever see (and even then...) its on digital platforms that are not shackled by the reserve list.

    Thing about it like this, you wont attract new players with packs full of duals quite simply because you cannot print said cards.

    Thank the collectors and speculators.

  6. #46
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Was planning to go to next year's Legacy GP here in Asia but it turns out GP Chiba is the last Legacy GP in Asia. And we also don't get an Eternal Weekend here in Asia. I guess it's just up to the local community to keep Legacy alive in their part of the world since WotC is moving away from eternal formats.
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  7. #47
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Claw_Outcast View Post
    This is kind of interesting. https://twitter.com/HeleneBergeot/st...09606217744385

    Basically they removed Legacy GP in order to give slots to "more accessible formats" for the benefit of players who "started recently". If this is not the evidence of WotC trying to kill or at least marginalise Legacy, then I don't know what is.
    In all fairness considering a majority of hardcore Legacy players don't actively play other formats (see: buy lots of Standard cards/packs) or pursue the Pro Tour, having a Grand Prix for the format is harder to justify as it doesn't do a great job of promoting their primary business. Yeah it really sucks having the format's support being widdled away between the loss of Grand Prix and SCG, but there are always other large, strong events to take place. Eternal Weekend is great, as is Bazaar of Moxen and other big events. Support will always find a way, even if it goes back to the pre-SCG days when the large events were held by smaller organizers. Hell I remember when we did The Source five-year anniversary tournament back in 2008. We hit something like ~137 people, and at the time it was the largest Legacy event ever not held by WotC. Stores and smaller communities can easily achieve stuff like that and hit 200+. We lose the enormity and atmosphere and accolades of a tournament with 1000+ people, but it's better than nothing and the quality of the competition will always be higher. Personally, I find it far more rewarding playing in a ~250 person event where 80% are fantastic players as opposed to a 1,500 person event where I want to punch my hand through a window if I lose any of the first three rounds if I don't have byes. Local communities and stores and smaller regional areas will always keep up the support and hold their end for the players.

    But people let's be real here. Outside of that and the larger prize pool (of which only a very small percentage on here will realistically taste in the first place), the Grand Prix circuit offers very little unless you are a player actively trying to qualify for the Pro Tour. So many Legacy players aren't losing that much if what they are really yearning for is just a huge-ass tournament. I don't mean to be too cynical, but that's simply the reality. I feel awful for the Legacy players of Europe who want these and really look forward to them. The Europeans are fantastic Legacy players and should be granted these events. But the agenda of WotC and the purpose of the Grand Prix circuit doesn't really mesh with Legacy, and most Legacy players don't mesh with that agenda anyway, so I think the loss is overstated. If all you want is the prospect of support for these mega events while realizing many of you likely aren't going to do THAT well in them, then yeah I feel for you. But if you are upset about the loss of these events because they are your few shots for doing well in the format and make a name for yourself, then there are plenty other strong tournaments to do that from (don't claim it's about the money either, because you essentially need to top8 to break even after expenses most of the time). And if you're in the third camp (like myself) that competitively plays other formats, then you weep for the slow miserable decline of this format while also playing others as you try to get back on to the Pro Tour and just move on and play other events at the Grand Prix level anyway.

  8. #48
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Yeah, GPs have always been awkward fits for legacy. Not a format that pros want to test extensively, so the 'best magic players' aren't really taking it seriously + hardcore legacy players generally aren't dying to get on the Pro Tour anyway. I think GPs are important as a symbol that Wizards isn't giving up on the format and that it's safe to buy in. Eternal Masters *looked* like it that was a symbol too, but now there are kinda mixed messages.

    I think that the format is in need of a well-run competitive circuit and a real replacement for SCG Opens is more crucial for the long-term health of legacy than any number of GPs would be. I think the player base is there both in America and Europe and it's just about these companies finding a way to make it financially viable.

  9. #49

    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Legacy will meet the same fate as vintage, insane buyins just to play an event maybe once a year.

    Hell our casual night is as close to either format as we will get and it's maybe 1 a month thing.

    Even their standard night is scarce and they usually end up doing modern or edh instead.

    All one needs for legacy is dual lands and a few other 100$ cards and you got a well built deck.

    Vintage you need 15k before you can think of what else you need.

    People want to play these formats but can't, hell even draft is dropping in our area.

    New set releases are usually bigger because it's still cheaper than draft.

    Soon it will be modern as the only "eternal" format and then it too will meet the fate of t1/1.5

  10. #50
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidneyious View Post
    People want to play these formats but can't, hell even draft is dropping in our area.
    Out of curiosity, where is your area? There's no location listed on your user profile. Are you in Europe?

  11. #51
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidneyious View Post
    All one needs for legacy is dual lands and a few other 100$ cards and you got a well built deck.
    To be really competative means more than just a few hundred dollars/ euro's. Besides, it's still a lot of money for cardboard

    Shame, the last couple of years my friends and I went to the GP for a good time. There will be another big event in Europe we will attend to. In all seriousness, I saw this one a long time coming. We as a community don't generate the commercial succes or the big money.
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  12. #52

    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    This is clearly a sign of Wizards deciding to drop all future GP-scale support for Legacy.
    The reason they start with Europe now is to avoid one large community backlash.

    There will be no Legacy GPs in 2018 in Europe, US, Asia, or anywhere else. We should figure out what this means.

    On a short scale, it could mean higher attendance number at privately run Legacy events.
    In the long run, I am not sure. Uncertain times ahead.

    I am saddened that Wizards have so little regard for the deepest and most skill intensive of formats.

  13. #53
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Is there any possibility of getting wotc to change their decision? They do often enough. With a bit of organisation we might be able to get the GP back.
    Lets not be defeatist yet.

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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesian View Post
    it could mean higher attendance number at privately run Legacy events.
    There is a serious lack of confidence in the independent series with people I speak/travel to events with. TOP, MKM, and BoM have all had their issues and to cite 'political instability' in the UK as justification for cancelling London, doesn't bode well for the 'ultra stable French nation' at this time when we should be booking Eternal Weekend (but for which I know a few have flatly refused to, even with the quality of crapes and croissants at French BoM events).

    Ovino and Prague Eternal seam a surer bet.

    I'm just really disappointed WoTc have taken this view, not surprised, just disappointed. One Legacy GP in the US, Europe and Asia was enough to sustain a worldwide Legacy community. But heh, too much fucking effort.

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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    I think the question here is the wrong one. It should not be "Can we get them to change their point of view?" and more along the lines of "Do we want them to change their point of view?"

    What is the point of a Legacy GP? Really? Do you want to go to the Pro Tour? Me either. Do you want to play in a room full of members of this community, hang out, drink beer and have a good time. There is the BOM, Eternal Weekend, SCG Open and other such joys. I would rather win the Eternal Weekend and get an oversized Loam/FOW/Tigra than a PT invite I could give two fucks about. I would rather hold over my head and hang on my wall a card that said 20xx Legacy Champ. I know it's something that would not happen because I am not that good at this game, but that's not the point.

    This does cause issues worth covering, real issues, as this is a statement of intent more so than a simple change of events. That part and the future it holds bothers me. But if Wizards came out tomorrow and said "We are going to do 5 Eternal Weekends a year in 5 different locations" I would take that over any GP you care to name.
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    But if Wizards came out tomorrow and said "We are going to do 5 Eternal Weekends a year in 5 different locations" I would take that over any GP you care to name.
    This - except they don't even bother to do that.

    Given high turnout of Legacy events in Europe, I wonder why not more people try to host bigger Legacy events. Are the costs/logistic requirements too high to be worth the risk?

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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    This - except they don't even bother to do that.

    Given high turnout of Legacy events in Europe, I wonder why not more people try to host bigger Legacy events. Are the costs/logistic requirements too high to be worth the risk?
    I think the slack will be picked up. Vintage has big events totally outside of the normal sphere of influence like the Team Serious Open, NYSE and Eternal Extravaganza. Legacy, here in Aus, is a grassroots thing. There is ZERO reason to play Legacy other than the fun of it. There are no large events, nothing to drive to, nothing big to see here but yet the scene grows. I have faith well will do just fine. Wizards helping us or not.
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  18. #58

    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    It seems so far that Europe has a great Legacy Community. The issue Europe faced this year was that they were (surprisingly) too many events.
    Sadly the last 'privately managed' events did not meet the expected target... from the organizers as the attendance to such events were disappointing, and from the players as the communication and organization of most of them were not meeting their expectations. I am referring here to the MKM, TOP, and other 'new' series.
    BoM, Ovino and Prague Eternal are kind of staples for the community so attendance there is usually fairly good.

    Is this the reason behind WotC's decision? Maybe.
    Is Legacy a dying format? Maybe too... Although I personally do not think so. It is just poisonned by the cash a player needs to pull to enter the format.
    Should the community show more interest in all the different circuits that sprouted in Europe to keep them alive and motivate their organizers to improve and continue to organize them? Yes, definitely.

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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    guys do u read there is an eternal weekend at march in paris.... this sounds to me like a leagcy event
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    Re: No European Legacy GPs in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco111 View Post
    It seems so far that Europe has a great Legacy Community. The issue Europe faced this year was that they were (surprisingly) too many events.
    Sadly the last 'privately managed' events did not meet the expected target... from the organizers as the attendance to such events were disappointing, and from the players as the communication and organization of most of them were not meeting their expectations. I am referring here to the MKM, TOP, and other 'new' series.
    BoM, Ovino and Prague Eternal are kind of staples for the community so attendance there is usually fairly good.

    Is this the reason behind WotC's decision? Maybe.
    Is Legacy a dying format? Maybe too... Although I personally do not think so. It is just poisonned by the cash a player needs to pull to enter the format.
    Should the community show more interest in all the different circuits that sprouted in Europe to keep them alive and motivate their organizers to improve and continue to organize them? Yes, definitely.

    M2c
    If Europe had too many events last year, as you say, then doesn't that help explain WOTC's decision? I don't know what's going on with Europe. I don't live there. But everything I hear suggests that Europe's Legacy scene is large.

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