https://thesaltminesite.com/2016/10/...ure-of-legacy/
In this week’s episode we confront a topic we’ve been meaning to talk about for some time… The 2017 GP schedule, lacking Legacy GPs in Europe and Asia. Is this an indication of what the future of Legacy holds? We bring Dice_Box from The Source to discuss this.
Enjoy!
Thanks for listening everyone, I would really like to get some feedback and thoughts from the people that do listen.
Basically:
A: Are you in Team Dice_Box, and are happy to just have specialist only events organised by the community (as Vintage and 93/94 are), or;
B: Are you in Team Steve, which still wants 1 Euro, 1 American and 1 Asian Legacy GP per year.
Cheers.
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Team B, given how well attended legacy GPs tend to be, it's silly they would waste an opportunity to further monetize a portion of their community, doubly so with how underwhelming standard has been largely for the past 1-2 years.
First of all, great cast guys. I'm a Dane that used to live in Melbourne 10 years ago so hearing you guys - great content aside - makes me feel quite nostalgic
Regarding this very interesting topic I find myself leaning towards B though not without a pinch of A.
I think B is a fine place to be. My friends and I are obviously disappointed to not get a European gp this as we've made this an annual trip, but this will be fairly easily replaced by eternal weekend or BoM or the likes. I expect the European Legacy format will be ok for the forseable future as the surplus in demand left from the gp being cut should be supplied by the bevy of other non-WotC events some of which might consolidate over time.
Having said that it's always disappointing to have something taken away. And I do see it as a positive to have a yearly event where the spotlight from WotC and the pros are set on our format as it does help get new players interested so I'm not happy with this decision. But like Dice said, it's been a long time coming, sadly.
You can follow me on Twitter at: www.twitter.com/MartinFSNielsen
Not sure I made my point clear enough in the podcast. I'm basically on Team Dice_Box, IFF Wizards get the fuck out of Legacy. If I were still living in Melbourne, I'd be more comfortable with a community approach, as there'd be a properly established scene for me to play in. That said, the chances of a Legacy GP remotely near where I live is an impossibility, but the concept of playing at a 'nearby' GP in a format that isn't dogshit has always been so. I guess it's more the novelty of a Legacy GP that I'm on-board with, than the actual GP part itself.
Gimme a largeish (100+) Legacy event or two in Australasia each year, and I'd still be happy.
Hi Steve, Long-time listener first time caller! (It’s Adrian here if case you’re wondering)
I took quite a bit of issue with what you said on the cast actually, so much that I feel you're Sheldon in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_1zoX5Ax9U
Things I took issue with:
- You said Wizards can make money off eternal players with more events
- You compared a GP to the Olympics
- You alluded that the reduction to 2 GPs was the end of Legacy
I shall address these points individually
Wizards making money off events
I think the people who point at GP NJ and GP Madrid and go "2 of the largest constructed GPs were Legacy" are missing a point, they became very large due to the rarity & the players desire to travel to them. If Legacy GPs were 6 times a year they'd drastically reduce in size and people wouldn't be so keen to travel to an event as there would be another one closer in 3 months’ time. At the moment people regularly travel across the entire USA for the big Legacy event per year, if say both coasts were to get 2 events per year people wouldn't travel out of region for them.
The second thing on this is Wizards do not make money out of GP's & the PT the TOs do but the funding is mostly from WoTC / Hasbro marketing department & what do marketing want? To increase the brand exposure of the new product that they can sell for ever. This is why there's a cluster of limited GPs right after each set release then moving to standard constructed events normally followed at the end of the standard season by a modern or legacy weekend. There's only a limited number of weekends for modern / legacy GPs due to the following blanked out weekends:
- 4 Set releases
- 4 Per-release weekends,
- 4 Limited GP weekends,
- 4 Pro Tours per year,
- 1 worlds weekend per year
- 5 weekends for the holidays - Note they put Chiba on USA Thanksgiving to get around this / free up an additional weekend this year
- 4 RPTQs - This season they've gone for 2 weekends for these, if you have a GP in region your RPTQ is the weekend after to free up weekends
The GP schedule for next year seems to be:
Set Pre-release weekend – No GP
Set Release weekend – No GP
Limited GPs weekend 2-3 GPs scattered around the world
Pro Tour – No GP
Game Day – No GP – normally! Next year there’s actually a couple GPs on game days
Standard GP
Standard GP
<Constructed GP> - This is where the Modern & Legacy GP’s are. Note the modern GP weekends tend to be 2 modern GPs on the same weekend next year which is an opportunity for more Legacy – The vegas weekend sits in this slot year as well.
Team Limited
Week off (I’m guessing RPTQ’s / WMCQ’s will be in these weekends next year)
Set Pre-release
As you can see from a marketing perspective there actually isn’t many slots for non-standard constructed GPs. For the amount of revenue we get from Wizards I honestly think we as eternal players are lucky to get 2-3 per season.
You compared a GP to the Olympics
There is no way a pay to enter event that occurs 2-3 times per year even comes close to the commitment that qualifying for the Olympics requires, I have several friends who are / have been Olympians and they dedicated 10+ years of their life to their sport, sacrificed money, career & family to dedicate themselves to the dream of a once in 4 years competing on the big stage. Not even the MTG World Cup with 16-24 players multi format comes close to the dedication required for the Olympics. It’s the closest thing MTG has to the Olympics and yes it doesn’t play Legacy there but it does play magic and if that was my goal I would play the formats that get me there.
To look it at a different way I cycle & run competitively however neither of my chosen disciplines of cycling or running are Olympic events but if I had the desire (and talent) to compete on that stage I would be forced to switch to disciplines that did. Back on the magic topic my mate and Silver pro Zen Takahashi will say his favourite format is Legacy (Esper Stoneblade 4 lyfe) but because he desires playing on the pro tour and maybe one day a world slot he dedicates himself to Limited and Standard & is often forced to choose between Legacy and Standard and heads off to the format that will keep him on the pro tour path.
You alluded that the reduction to 2 GPs was the end of Legacy
It’s not. Let’s look at how many GPs there has been per PT season because it all matters around the pro-tour. Currently we have the entire schedule for PT year 16-17 & the announcement of EW’s 2017.
2007 – 1
2008 – 0
2009 – 1
2010 – 2
2011 – 2
12-13 – 5 (change to the Sept-Aug seasons)
13-14 – 2 (the reduction to 2 was much teeth gashing then)
14-15 – 3 (there was much celebration with the addition of the 3rd again)
16-17 – 3 (wait there’s no reduction? Oh shit!)
17-18 - ?
Now the big thing we don’t is how many there will be in the 17-18 season including the announcement that will come mid next year? They could still slot an event in for late 2017 but I suspect they won’t. Note the overall number of GPs has fallen the last 2 years to accommodate 4 set releases per year & at the same time they’ve bought in the x-2 rule for PT invites so the overall number of PT invites has gone up.
I also think that in time WoTC sees the eternal weekends which since year 2 as a better fit for the bulk of eternal events & the move to 2 of them + 2 GPs. Note with the rules change where premium events with byes expect the winners (or even the T4) of the EW events to be awarded PT entries like the SCG invitational winners are, this is a great way for WoTC to give away PT spots to eternal players without the problems of PT points in smaller events. I suspect in time we’ll see more of these events endorsed by Wizards.
That's my summary of points I wanted to raise, I enjoyed the cast once again. I am highly disappointed in hearing the words "I like delver" out of Steve but he's an Aussie who drives a Toybota so I guess I shouldn't have expectations of taste.
Oh I've also decided Dice is my Brisbane soul brother from another mother. Shops and Lands 4 lyfe.
Oh yes. A vote:
C. I want magic to keep being a thing and agree that as a business wizards need to do what ever they can do to continue growing the game and making little bits of cardboard for me to collect.
Just wrapped up the episode - thanks guys! Dice has been a great contributor whenever he's on, so I hope we see more of him in the future. Now re. Steve's question:
I don't think there's a real argument that A is worse than B, but I think B is a fine situation. The point was repeatedly made in the episode that GPs are the Olympics of Legacy, but the weight of the "GP" title is kind of nebulous, right? Like we all think it's an amazing accomplishment to win a GP, but you can't really explain why it's much more impressive than winning something like BoM or an SCG Open. And if we gradually see WotC moving away from Legacy GPs and independent organizers picking up the slack, won't those events gradually gain the prestige GPs have? In other words, I think it's just a matter of time before things right themselves.
I started listening to this podcast last week and got caught up through episode 6 this afternoon. I must say I absolutely love it (as well as the weekly MTG Goldfish articles, which is how I found out about the podcast in the first place)! I'm very excited to listen to this episode tomorrow.
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