[DTB] U/R Delver

[TheManWithaPlan]

Hello, all! So glad this primer has become invigorated lately. I am quite new to the deck, and it has been very helpful to read experiences and tips from more experienced players.

I run a list with 4 delver, 4 swiftspear, and 3 soul-scar mage (as well as two stormchaser and one true name) because I really like the high density of one drop creatures. Often, I will have opening hands that contain more than one, and I struggle to know which one drop threat to lead with. I generally always lead with Delver in the dark. If I have swiftspear and soul-scar but no delver, I almost always lead with soul-scar. I am misplaying here? Under what circumstances might it be better to lead with a specific one drop threat?

Thanks for the advice!

I believe that you are sequencing your threats correctly. Doing so this way as you may imagine is a way to maximize your damage output.

To answer your other question, you could lead on Monastery Swiftspear or Soul-Scar Mage over Delver on turn 1 to bait something like a Daze or a removal spell. Otherwise, I don't usually tailor my lead to the matchup I am playing.

[Chatto]

People already read this: http://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-matc...les-ur-delver/

Any thoughts/ ideas? I personally like to play Eidolon, because it's also a beatstick.

[t000]

New ideas.

Anyone tried this one: Ideas Unbound?

Last card in hand, cast Unbound, draw 3 cards, cast the 3 new cards (hopefully), discard hand (no cards left)..?
Or lots of lands in your hand, cast Unbound, draw 3 cards, do some buisiness, then discard some lands...?

Its a better version of the card-draw trigger on Bedlam Reveler. Since its triggers both delver/prowess and works with FoW. And the discard is only 3 cards, not your hand, and its discard IN END OF YOUR TURN on the Ideas Unbound.

[tescrin]

I wanted to use Ideas in a mentor deck some time back, I think Ideas has a lot of legs in UR Delver since everything is so cheap. I'm a little surprised it never found a home in Pyro decks; where it'd probably be a tad bit better than here. I don't think I'd want more than 2 copies though, as playing ideas and drawing Ideas is pretty clunky.

[Smuggo]

I think the mana cost of ideas unbound is the big problem. For mainboard especially, I like to go on the assumption that I will only have a mountain and island as my mana sources. Often it is more of course, but the ideal really is 2-3 mana sources and if you fetch a volc you can usually expect it to get wasted. Bedlam is obviously an exception there, as is fireblast, but I feel the value they offer is enough.

I can see just having issues where i have ideas in hand but only 2 mana sources, meaning it is somewhat useless except as a prowess trigger. It just ends up stuck in hand for ages when you could have something more useful in its place. I suppose it could help when you have a load of countermagic or land you don't really need that you want to ditch, but overall I think it's too slow.

[twndomn]

People already read this: http://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-matc...les-ur-delver/

Any thoughts/ ideas? I personally like to play Eidolon, because it's also a beatstick.

UR has split into 2 different directions.

The majority of players prefer to go creature heavy, i.e. Emma's stream. When you go for this build, you're a lot slower, and you focus on establishing a board presence, couple threats. Stifle and Wasteland here make senses, you can tempo your way to victory.

The other approach is to ditch the Stifle Wasteland, focus on having 2 mountains on turn 2 and drop Eidolon the hate bear. I personally favor this approach. This is much faster, much Burn heavy. It's like traditional Burn, but with Blue cantrips.

From my observation, lands is gaining huge popularity Post GP. Lands can defeat Grixis easily, perhaps that's the reason. I'm thinking maybe Blood Moon can be an option somewhere in the 75.

[Fra_44]

UR has split into 2 different directions.

The majority of players prefer to go creature heavy, i.e. Emma's stream. When you go for this build, you're a lot slower, and you focus on establishing a board presence, couple threats. Stifle and Wasteland here make senses, you can tempo your way to victory.

The other approach is to ditch the Stifle Wasteland, focus on having 2 mountains on turn 2 and drop Eidolon the hate bear. I personally favor this approach. This is much faster, much Burn heavy. It's like traditional Burn, but with Blue cantrips.

From my observation, lands is gaining huge popularity Post GP. Lands can defeat Grixis easily, perhaps that's the reason. I'm thinking maybe Blood Moon can be an option somewhere in the 75.

There's also a third way! Check out this list I 5-0ed with at the end of May: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Fra44

Cabal Therapy out of the board + Peezy solves the deck's worst match up, which is combo. Still, Lands is very hard to beat tho, but you can manage to do it with PoP, a fast clock and Vapor Snags on their 20/20.
Plus Peezy beats Strix and TNN pretty easily. I think this is the best UR build available at the moment. Also, I think UR is pretty well positioned thanks to its 8 bolts that make Delver mirrors and New Miracles pretty good match ups to face.

Obviously you want Tarns over Misties, I just can't afford them

[TheManWithaPlan]

From my observation, lands is gaining huge popularity Post GP. Lands can defeat Grixis easily, perhaps that's the reason. I'm thinking maybe Blood Moon can be an option somewhere in the 75.

I would honestly prefer to play extra copies of Price of Progress in the sideboard over Blood Moon. Blood Moon is 3 mana which can be tough to get through lands if they are playing Rishadan Port. I have played Blood Moon in the past, but quickly swapped it for Price of Progress. I wanted to board it in for a couple of matchups, like Delver, but realized I just didn't want to risk playing a 3 mana do nothing enchantment when they are beating my face with a flying 3/2. I think Blood Moon is a lock piece and that you should only board it in if it will lock your opponent out of the game. That's my opinion on Blood Moon in this deck. That said it will just lock lands out of the game.

To sum up my post, if you really want to fight Lands, then play Blood Moon, otherwise, I think you should be playing extra copies of Price of Progress.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Price of Progress and Blood Moon are for different things but also work together. Blood Moon turns all nonbasic lands into nonbasic mountains. Price still counts them. The real question is if you don't have enough room in your board for both, which one do you need more?

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[TheManWithaPlan]

Price of Progress and Blood Moon are for different things but also work together. Blood Moon turns all nonbasic lands into nonbasic mountains. Price still counts them. The real question is if you don't have enough room in your board for both, which one do you need more?

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I have found I don't have enough room in my sideboard, but Price of Progress has a wider range of application. Price of Progress is also cheaper and will do what this deck primarily wants to do; damage to the opponent. That is why I prefer Price over Blood Moon.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I agree that unless your meta has lots of lands (read: Philly meta) you do not have room for both.

I only occasionally play UR Delver, when I want to screw with the players in my local meta who know what I like to normally play, but when I do, my "3-drop" is Snapcaster, not TNN or Clique. He is super here, often giving me the win with bolt, snap, bolt, untap and swing (8 damage). I know that takes 4 Mana, but I often get to.

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[twndomn]

I would honestly prefer to play extra copies of Price of Progress in the sideboard over Blood Moon. Blood Moon is 3 mana which can be tough to get through lands if they are playing Rishadan Port. I have played Blood Moon in the past, but quickly swapped it for Price of Progress. I wanted to board it in for a couple of matchups, like Delver, but realized I just didn't want to risk playing a 3 mana do nothing enchantment when they are beating my face with a flying 3/2. I think Blood Moon is a lock piece and that you should only board it in if it will lock your opponent out of the game. That's my opinion on Blood Moon in this deck. That said it will just lock lands out of the game.

To sum up my post, if you really want to fight Lands, then play Blood Moon, otherwise, I think you should be playing extra copies of Price of Progress.

I understand your point. Often we do have to race; however, Blood Moon is a permanent hate for both Grixis and Lands, which are very popular post GP. The idea of permanent hate over spell hate goes into the core concept of playing a hateful permanent Every Single Turn. Ideally, Turn 1 Grim Lavamancer, Turn 2 Eidolon, Turn 3 Blood Moon, this would force opponent into having the exact answer every turn. This approach is very different from tempo strategy of "let me stifle here and waste there, and then hopefully dodge discard and eventually Price for the win."

From my experiences against Lands, if Lands opponent is trying to Port a UR Delver player, he's taking a huge risk of trying to extend the game in that grindy fashion. When the UR Delver player loses in this MU, often it's because Lands made a quick 20/20 via Crop Rotation or had an explosive opening, able to setup with Gamble and/or Exploration, Mox. When Lands player decides to take that aggressive route to try to assemble his combo asap, I doubt you'll get Ported.

Doubt this is a mutually exclusive argument, as I run both PoP and Moon.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Minor point, and maybe this isn't something you encounter in your meta, but the lands players here have stated that they have been having better results using Ghost Quarters in the port slots. No one here playing lands is on the port plan.

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[Chatto]

As a Lands-player myself, I have to chim in on the discussion: the best hate vs Lands is without doubt Blood Moon. PoP is solid, and can be backbreaking, but please remember Glacial Chasm. Personally, I've been on GQ for a long time: it works best against all non-combo, non-heavy basics ('fair') decks.

[Chatto]

Sorry for the double post, but changes have been made to the OP. Many thanks to TMWAP!

[appleseiter15]

What are everyone's thoughts on Abrade in the sideboard? Is it unnecessary because we have smash to smithereens or is the extra utility of shatter or lightning strike a creature worth it?

[tescrin]

IMO, you could run a badlands or USea and just run Kolaghan's. As long as you don't splash very heavily you should be able to play the deck as normal; and then when you hit an artifact deck you will have a much better card.

If you're unwilling to do that, run Smash. Besides, then you get to say "Lemme smash.."

EDIT: Null Rod is also an exceptional 1-of in the side. Sits in between artifact hate and storm hate. Misses part of BSK but hits Vials and things

[Smuggo]

Abrade is OK but just not as good as smash plus we already have 8 bolts for creature removal so ending up paying 2 mana to get rid of a creature doesn't seem that good. Smash does what we'd board Abrade in for plus advances our game plan with face damage so I'd run more smash before considering Abrade.

[t000]

Anyone tried Manamorphose?

[Chatto]

Anyone tried Manamorphose?

To do what exactly? Be some sort of cantrip?