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Thread: [DTB] U/R Delver

  1. #861

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    looks like the banhammer will fall pretty soon right ?

    the deck was everywhere in last challenge

    maybe with endurance maindeck some decks will stand a chance

    or engineered explosives for one an other weakness
    Last edited by adrieng; 06-07-2021 at 06:06 PM.

  2. #862
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Alright, well, it's basically weekend one. So, yeah, obviously strong, but lets at least see how the meta shapes up before before making de facto calls for bans, maybe?

    I mean, yeah, we know Delver decks were already doing well, but still, the meta will shift. It already shifted from Saturday to Sunday.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  3. #863

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    anyway we'll have to wait wizard sells his product before bans,

    but yeah meta can shift a little, but between saturday and sunday lists weren't published right ? so there can't be an adaptation

  4. #864

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    anyway we'll have to wait wizard sells his product before bans,

    but yeah meta can shift a little, but between saturday and sunday lists weren't published right ? so there can't be an adaptation
    Multiple tweets and streams showed the affinity deck as destroying stuff without adequate sideboard tech. But delver is bullshit so they only had to add a few dedicated hate cards (meltdown/extra null rods) to win on Sunday.

  5. #865
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    This is way too early to call for a ban. The metagame can adjust. It's just very popular now.

    Other decks can have favorable matchups vs Delver. But when an event has 26% Delver players, the deck just needs >50% win rate to have a decent chance one of them wins. The guy who won went 6-0 vs UR mirror, 1-1 vs Affinity, 0-1 vs Lands. That's not even a positive win rate vs Affinity. It just crushed the mirror.

    The current builds are softer to Chalice decks than past UR Delver builds. They skewed in a specific direction to fight the mirrors. Prison also slows down Affinity. There could be potential there to fight back. But I think everyone was excited to try out the new cards.

    AnziD's Bant Miracles beat UR Delver all day on Saturday, only losing 0-2 to Affinity.

  6. #866
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    I am not in the business of statistical analysis, but consider the numbers here, UR Delver had a pretty terrible seeming conversion rate, as far as I can tell. While eschatology is fun and all, it's been one weekend. Lets see what happens next week, now that people "know" that 25% or so of the meta is UR Delver.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  7. #867

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Way too early to call for bans but the issue I see with UR Delver is its basically getting to the point that there is the perfect amount of redundant cards (as a result of new pitch counters and 1 CMC creatures being printed) where the deck just becomes a redundancy machine. Due to MH1 and 2, they can run exactly the desired amount of cantrips, 1 CMC beaters, free counters, etc.. The only thing they are missing is a "fixed" Wasteland and Daze so they can decide how many copies (5-8) to run.

    The new UW affinity deck can easily get checked by artifact hate but I'm not really sure how you can hate out the sheer efficiency of UR Delver that now gets to run up to 12 Delvers and up to 12 free counters if they want. Before Chalice was a good check but its really not that much of a check when you have so many free counters such that you can almost always answer their 4 copies of Chalice.

  8. #868
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    Re: UR Ragavan aka Just Monkeyin Around

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    PROPOSED LIST:

    //Creatures: 15
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    3 Sprite Dragon
    2 Brazen Borrower
    2 Murktide Regent

    //Spells: 27
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Chain Lightning
    1 Forked Bolt
    4 Daze
    3 Expressive Iteration
    1 Force of Negation

    //Lands: 18
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Wasteland

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Abrade
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Pyrokinesis
    2 Meltdown
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Submerge
    2 Surgical Extraction


    Edit: -1 Dismember, -1 Iteration, -1 Narset, -1 Volley, -1 Sprite Dragon, -1 FoN, -1 Relic
    +1 Wasteland, +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Pyrokinesis, +2 Meltdown, +2 Regent
    2nd place in the Showcase ran a similar DRC-less UR Ragavan build.
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...okori_nd_place


    //Creatures: 14
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    2 Brazen Borrower
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Murktide Regent

    //Spells: 28
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Chain Lightning
    1 Pyroblast
    4 Daze
    3 Expressive Iteration
    2 Force of Negation

    //Lands: 18
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest
    4 Volcanic Island
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    4 Wasteland

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Abrade
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Meltdown
    1 Null Rod
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Submerge
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Karakas
    2 Narset, Parter of Veils


    No Sprite Dragon of course. That card looked a lot better in testing than it does in this new meta.
    TNN is good tech to beat the anti-UR control decks. Also 2 Narset in the SB, higher than the usual 0-1.

    17th place was on a very similar build:
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...isker_th_place

    Just about every other UR player was on 4 DRC and Baubles. Interesting to see the 0 Bauble 0 DRC build come out on top.

    DRC is strong, but Baubles are bad, and DRC walks even harder into losses from decks that prey on UR (Blazing Volley effects in the mirror, Endurance in Bant, Chalice @ 1). Cutting DRC completely and running those TNN and Borrowers seem like a good meta choice to give the deck outs to control and walk into less hate.

  9. #869

    Re: UR Ragavan aka Just Monkeyin Around

    That's a solid list.

    I like cutting or trimming DRC for Brazen Borrowers. The must attack clause and delirium requirement can be both pretty annoying. I also like trimming on Expressive Iteration. Its 2 CMC but is effectively a quasi-3 CMC card because you need to have spent 2 mana without hitting a land drop yet / can get burned if you don't flop a land and have to burn a card. Multiples of them early can make for a clunky hand.

  10. #870
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    DRC's must-attack clause is easy for good opponents to exploit. It's especially bad against Bant (the top midrange/control deck that preys on UR), which can flash in Endurance to block and eat it even if you target yourself, so cutting DRC is a savvy meta choice to deal with the expected Bant decks.

    Having too many 1-drop X/1s is also a problem vs common obstacles like Chalice @ 1 and Electrickery/Plague Engineer/Blazing Volley. They just all walk into the same hate. Pre-MH2 UR Delver had maindeck Borrowers to fight the shell's inherent weaknesses like Chalice @ 1, Marit Lage, Gurmag Angler, etc. After MH2 I think decks went a little too far having fun with all the new cards. It was fine when everyone else was also cheesing around with the new cards or trying to play UR too, but it made the deck even weaker to those problems it was already weak to. Borrower shores up a lot of Game 1 weaknesses to things UR colors cannot answer maindeck, and playing fewer 1-drops dodges more hate.

    Also there's mild anti-synergy with 4 DRC + 3 Murktide Regent. No DRC means you can get greedy with Murktides.

  11. #871
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Remember when players said Ragavan was a C card or would run fewer than 4 copies in UR Delver UR Ragavan?

  12. #872

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    With the monkey banned, what cards will replace the 2 Gut Shot and 4 Ragavan slots newly freed up?

    Im thinking…
    1-2 Delver
    1-2 Brazen Borrower
    2 Bauble
    1 Chain Lightning or some other spice

    Anything I missed?

  13. #873

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    In anzidmtg ‘s no ragavan tournament, delver played 2 pyromancer to help vs control.

  14. #874
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    If the rumours are true and (Magic) Twitter is sinking, then why not rekindle The Source a bit.

    My current tweak of UR Delver is built on the experience that people are trying to beat us with cards that evade Lightning Bolt. This means big creatures and non-creature permanents like Leyline of the Void etc. Therefore I'm maxing out on Unholy Heat, 3 Baubles to fuel them and a whopping 3 Brazen Borrower. Brazen handles everything and even though it's a bit heavy, I feel that the decks lean game plan with 8 1-drops allows for this trade-off between utility and heaviness in cost.

    But how to add a picture here in a simple way....well a link it is then:

    https://www.moxfield.com/decks/MMAwCfq2s0ilIHdivg4JhQ

  15. #875
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Is cutting Bolt worth it? While Bolt doesn't handle big bodies like M&B, it is better at unconditionally policing X/3s and life totals. The threat of 4x Lightning Bolt in the deck forces opponent to alter play patterns and manage life total differently. The fact that you can "hide" known Bolts on top of library (with cantrips) opens up many opportunities for bluffs and tricks. If they know you can't have Bolt, they don't have to do that. You're forced to finish them with creatures.

    At first you may get some "brewer's advantage" where they play around Bolt anyway, expecting a stock list, but once they get familiar with your list they'll stop doing it. Brewer's advantage fades over time.

    I'm a big fan of Borrower as it helps with noncreature permanents and Marit Lages in Game 1. 3 copies is a lot though...

    If the list is struggling against X/4 anti-Delver tech, is that just because stock lists are overboarded for the mirror (6-7x blast)? If you can't handle M&B with Daze and blue blasts, what about with Brazen Boi and SB Spell Pierce? Or what about a 3x Bolt 2x Unholy Heat split? Elvish Reclaimer and Knight can be attacked via grave hate.

  16. #876
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Isn't having a Lightning Bolt an answer to M&B? I've seen multiple times the planeswalker bolted with the hamster trigger on the stack.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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