[DTB] U/R Delver

[tescrin]

Honestly, Soul Scar Mage is good, but I am still unsure if it deserves a slot. Soul Scar Mage, being 1 mana as opposed to Stormchaser at 2 mana can speed the deck up in terms of its explosive turns. I view Soul Scar Mage's ability to be a little fringe but when it comes up it becomes very relevant.I haven't been able to test it yet, however I do think it is worth testing quite thoroughly. I am probably going to test it in the near future, will update.

I think it wants to slot somewhere in a one-sided Rough/Tumble running deck. Whether that means it's good or not I can't say, but I think the potential for a deck maining some form of one-sided Pyroclasm effect with Swift/Scar exists now.

[Drzed]

I tried soul scar a bit and I'm unsure if it deserve a slot maindeck. The only thing I'm sure is that if I want another 1 drop in the deck is not goblin guide. On a 5 match sample the mage has provided more damage on the long run than a goblin guide 4 times out of 5 (turn 1 mage/guide) while providing an upside (Wither) instead of the downside of drawing my opp a card.
I'm always pretty impressed by the reveler as a pseudo cruise immune to push and that provide a great body; but the inclusion of scour is meh at best as milling the few lands we play is terrible. I wouldn't cut dazes as the combo matchup is bad and it's the only way to stop a chalice on the play.
What's your thoughts on vapor snag guys? With all those marit lages around it seems that even 2 copies are a possibile inclusion, but I'm worried that in the combo matchup it's too bad.

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[pateuglow]

Took UR Delver to my first day 2 at GP Vegas. Had no byes but limped in at 6-3. Will have a writeup on Hipsters of the Coast if people are interested.

Deck was great, I lost some games due to bad sideboarding on my part.

[Luthiereisfun]

Took UR Delver to my first day 2 at GP Vegas. Had no byes but limped in at 6-3. Will have a writeup on Hipsters of the Coast if people are interested.

Deck was great, I lost some games due to bad sideboarding on my part.

Congrats on day 2! I know I would be interested in a write up!

[potatodavid]

So, been kicking tires with this deck. Meta has been SUUUUPER full of Grixis and Czech Pile. So I've definetly been thinking of running 1-3 Stifle 1-3 Wasteland, just to punish these ridiculous manabases. The Issue I'm having with this is what else to run. The first cuts would be Chain Lightning and Stormchaser Mage, as if I'm running 1-3 wastelands. I Don't think a multicolored creature is going to fit in. Chain lightning because I'm reducing threats, I probably don't want to get my lightnings to be redirected.

Am i wrong for thinking this?

OR should I just net deck the shit out of this?

[Luthiereisfun]

So, been kicking tires with this deck. Meta has been SUUUUPER full of Grixis and Czech Pile. So I've definetly been thinking of running 1-3 Stifle 1-3 Wasteland, just to punish these ridiculous manabases. The Issue I'm having with this is what else to run. The first cuts would be Chain Lightning and Stormchaser Mage, as if I'm running 1-3 wastelands. I Don't think a multicolored creature is going to fit in. Chain lightning because I'm reducing threats, I probably don't want to get my lightnings to be redirected.

Am i wrong for thinking this?

OR should I just net deck the shit out of this?

If you want to play UR delver with stifle and wasteland I recommend starting with this list http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15848&d=297314&f=LE

I have been playing something very close to it and much prefer it to the prowess versions. Is it better? Depends on meta and even then I can't say one is strictly better. Prowess versions are definitely more popular.

I would try out both and see what you like. The Takuma list feels like it has a better combo MU and I play 2x bloodmoon in the sb which has cheesed a bunch of wins for me. It's also more reactive which I like.

[Chatto]

Took UR Delver to my first day 2 at GP Vegas. Had no byes but limped in at 6-3. Will have a writeup on Hipsters of the Coast if people are interested.

Deck was great, I lost some games due to bad sideboarding on my part.

Congrats, looking forward to your write-up!

[t000]

Hey guys, Ill start off by saing amazing work Chatto! This thread is going to be really good! I recently moved from playing Depths for several years, to CounterBurn (UR Delver), and im lovin it. The reason being is that the rise of highspeed-combodecks in my local meta, witch has made Detphts struggling a bit. But with CounterBurn I can smash a Fow in their face saying: don't play such cheezy decks you dic* head! No, but back to being serious. This deck has a stable mana base (only 2 colors and basics), this combined with burn and counter is a huuuge advantage. Good synergy with Delver and Prowess, both needing non-creature spells. Seriously, just lovi'n this deck-concept!


Anyway, here are my recent to cents on this deck:

1. Sulfuric Vortex have been really good to me, triggers Prowess and sets of a clock. A fast clock! Those 2 extra damages each turn is just amazing! Before I started using Vortex, I some times lost with opponents at only 3-4 life left when I died, but now: oh yes baby! So they Abrupt Decay our Vortex? Perfect, they used 2 mana + 1 card and my Delver of Secrets/Monastery Swiftspear will survive another round. I just wish it was a 2cc card, the 3cc mana cost is pain!

2. Played several games against a Chalice of the Void@1 on turn 1-2. I sideboarded in 2x Smash to Smithereens but couldn't find it either of them But then I realized: Prowess triggers anyway! The spells just get countered. This is a very important effect of the Prowess, you pro-UR players probably know this. But I just wanted to enlighten other novice UR-players out there. The same goes if the spell gets countered normally, by FoW or a Daze of course. If I had realized this earlier, I could have won several of the games against chalice@1.


I will be following this thread, looking forward to see it evolve, as we still have 6-8 flex slots MB.

[t000]

Since we are pumping out spells to combo with the Prowess trigger, we should maby be looking for a card that takes that advantage? Treasure Cruise was the perfect answer, but due to combodecks also noticing this card it got banned right away.

'Threshold', 'Delve', 'Deliriu' and 'Spell mastery' are some of the abilites that works with the graveyard. We have some contenders, but i dont think they are up for the challenge:

- Grim Lavamancer, to slow?
- Snapcaster Mage, to mana heavy?
- Bedlam Reveler, almost right, but just a bit to mana heavy.
- Cryptic Serpent, naaa...
- Set Adrift, slow sorcery speed.
- Rite of Undoing, instant ''Boomerang'' for U-cc, but do we need it? Maby SB?

- Deathrite, Nimble, Goyf, Angler all are the wrong color.

So, draw cards and take advantage of a big graveyard might be what we should be on the look out for? Lets start searching....

[TheManWithaPlan]

Since we are pumping out spells to combo with the Prowess trigger, we should maby be looking for a card that takes that advantage? Treasure Cruise was the perfect answer, but due to combodecks also noticing this card it got banned right away.

'Threshold', 'Delve', 'Deliriu' and 'Spell mastery' are some of the abilites that works with the graveyard. We have some contenders, but i dont think they are up for the challenge:

- Grim Lavamancer, to slow?

I think that when you try to put payoffs in this deck, the payoffs just become clunky. The fact is the strategy of playing out your threats and ending the game quickly is already effective enough. You don't need clunky payoff cards. A while back, I went through this same thought process and eventually came to the realization that you probably just want to focus on your primary game plan in playing prowess creatures, Delver and a bunch of spells to close out the game quickly.

To comment on Grim Lavamancer, I have been playing it in this deck forever, and it is insane. Especially right now, when Elves and Grixis Delver are popular, Lavamancer is very good. Yes, Lavamancer takes a turn to get going but if it is left unanswered it just takes over the game.

[t000]

...A while back, I went through this same thought process and eventually came to the realization that you probably just want to focus on your primary game plan in playing prowess creatures, Delver and a bunch of spells to close out the game quickly. To comment on Grim Lavamancer, I have been playing it in this deck forever, and it is insane. Especially right now, when Elves and Grixis Delver are popular, Lavamancer is very good. Yes, Lavamancer takes a turn to get going but if it is left unanswered it just takes over the game.

Hi TMWP.

Thanks for your reply, I will let Mr. Grim a second go. Im a bit afraid that to many 1cc is a bust (Chalice/Prelate..) that we need the 2cc on Stormchaser.

Another though, Grim/Delver/Mage/Swift, they are all Humans.

Cheers.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Prelate says non-creature.

Grim Lavamancer is good in the delver mirror, elves, good against DnT until they Revoker it, but then you just bolt Revoker and things are back on. It's also good to shrink goyfs sometimes.

Anyone like bloodwater Entity that was spoiled yesterday? 3cmc is high, dies to stuff, but may be worth a look.

[tescrin]

I had a couple Cryptics casted against me the other day. They don't seem half bad. It's nice that their mana cost is weird and most spells miss them. They also aren't delve so UAbsent isn't a big deal. Swap them out against decks that want to RiP you maybe. If you run them, I'd also run G-Probe.

I think Vortex is a must, but could be off base. The ability to have an evasive dude with "haste" that almost never gets killed and prevents all HP gain; it's an out BSK/Jitte, DRS, EBridge, etc.

[Warbeast]

Anyone like bloodwater Entity that was spoiled yesterday? 3cmc is high, dies to stuff, but may be worth a look.

So I don't hate him... Flyer that has prowess like storm chaser.. And for 1 mana more is a archaomancer seems really good... Now the negative is that its just a simple 2/2... Now I know what you are thinking "it has prowess so you gust cast a spell and he is fine" that's not necessarily true... I think bolts popularity is going up some so to save this guy you will need 2 spells when you cast him... Next lack of haste... The way the prowess version looks you have 2 really good prowess guys... The common factor is that they both have haste. So pretty much ask yourself would stromchaser and swiftspear be good if they did not have haste? I think no personally but soul scar Madge is starting to get big so Im not entirely sure.

My.opinion on the card is that it is good... But i don't know if its better that the stock list of guys... Might be a Lil better that reveler but I think thats a wrong assessment

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I do happen to agree, I just wanted to hear someone else say it. For that cost, I'm pretty sure I'd rather play some number of Snapcaster Mage before it, if only because I do have stormchaser mage and also bolt snap bolt.

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[Smuggo]

Bloodwater Entity seems worth trying. Even just his etb is quite nice if you just need one more bolt or Pop to finish them off. Might try it as a one of.

[t000]

Hi again.

Just a though: If we run 3x sets of 1cc creatures (4 Delver/4 Grim/4 Swift), what about including a set of Aether Vial main deck?

Pros:
Since we only play 1cc creatures, we only need to ramp up to 1 counter.
We can use our mana on spells instead of creatures.
Works with Prowess.
´Flash´ creatures into play.
Creatures become counter-proof.
Could count as a ´mana-source´, at least a card (land) advantage.
Play creatures through early permission (Chalice etc.).

Cons:
Dont flip Delver.
1 Vial in play and 1 in hand = 1 dead card in hand. But this senario is most likely to mid/late game, and we dont want to be there anyway?
Can not be pithed to FoW

I play against a lot of Maverick/Goblin decks, and they realy endorse and take advantage of Vial. The card advantage and surprice factor is amazing!

[Stuuch]

You need to have at least 20 creatures if you want to play Vial and get value out of it. This deck only plays 13-14 most of the time so it is not a good card here.

[Smuggo]

Vial is just not complimentary to our strategy at all. We never really have mana issue, the whole deck can easily run and win with 2 lands. So what benefit are you getting from vial? If you cast it T1 then you waste a turn doing nothing, then turn 2 maybe you get a delver down with it, but you could have just cast that delver on T1 anyway and it would by now potentially be flipped and swinging for 3. You don't even start to benefit in terms of gaining a mana advantage until T3 and by then you probably won't have creatures left in your hand.

Vial works in stuff like Goblins and D&T because they have a number of crucial 2-drop and 3-drop creatures and Vial helps those decks to keep pace with faster decks like Delver and get around counter magic, but for us it is far too slow and cumbersome, doesn't complement the rest of our strategy and is absolutely terrible in multiples.

[appleseiter15]

Hello, all! So glad this primer has become invigorated lately. I am quite new to the deck, and it has been very helpful to read experiences and tips from more experienced players.

I run a list with 4 delver, 4 swiftspear, and 3 soul-scar mage (as well as two stormchaser and one true name) because I really like the high density of one drop creatures. Often, I will have opening hands that contain more than one, and I struggle to know which one drop threat to lead with. I generally always lead with Delver in the dark. If I have swiftspear and soul-scar but no delver, I almost always lead with soul-scar. I am misplaying here? Under what circumstances might it be better to lead with a specific one drop threat?

Thanks for the advice!