The current state of Magic

[Brainstorm Ape]

That SCG schedule must be a wakeup call for Wizards; the two formats they promote most, Standard and Limited, are sidelined or completely absent. Given that SCG is interested in making money, and thus caters to the demands of the (competitive/Spikey) playerbase, it shows how little the more hardcore segment wants to play the formats WotC is most interested in selling.

[Zombie]

CFB expanded their Pauper events from a single high prizes event on Sunday to have events on both days, too, so safe to assume attendance has been good on that front, too.

[Crimhead]

That SCG schedule must be a wakeup call for Wizards...
...it shows how little the more hardcore segment wants to play the formats WotC is most interested in selling.

Go figure. WotC have promoted a stale environment for years now (fun policing) because they thought casual and new gamers where more important than hardcore players. You reap what you sow.

[CptHaddock]

Go figure. WotC have promoted a stale environment for years now (fun policing) because they thought casual and new gamers where more important than hardcore players. You reap what you sow.

Do you really think the people who actively go to GPs to finish well spend more money on this game than folks that buy up boosters and any other supplemental products?

[Barook]

That SCG schedule must be a wakeup call for Wizards; the two formats they promote most, Standard and Limited, are sidelined or completely absent. Given that SCG is interested in making money, and thus caters to the demands of the (competitive/Spikey) playerbase, it shows how little the more hardcore segment wants to play the formats WotC is most interested in selling.

How popular is Limited anyway? All I know is that whenever Limited is on screen, it nukes the viewerbase on Twitch.

And Standard is only "popular" because it has the most tournament support, not because it's actually the "best" format. A lot of good will is gone now with their low power bullshit, continued bannings and all the other fuck-ups in recent years, all while Modern is in a pretty good place now.

[Crimhead]

Do you really think the people who actively go to GPs to finish well spend more money on this game than folks that buy up boosters and any other supplemental products?

By "hardcore players", I don't mean grinders. I mean engaged, enfranchised players everywhere who are turning to Pauper or Modern instead of Limited or Standard because they actually enjoy good strategy games.

[ironclad8690]

How popular is Limited anyway? All I know is that whenever Limited is on screen, it nukes the viewerbase on Twitch.

And Standard is only "popular" because it has the most tournament support, not because it's actually the "best" format. A lot of good will is gone now with their low power bullshit, continued bannings and all the other fuck-ups in recent years, all while Modern is in a pretty good place now.

For those of us unfamiliar with all of the new cards, you can't tell what the fuck is going on. They don't bring up enough cards. That's why I don't watch limited.

[Lord Seth]

How popular is Limited anyway? All I know is that whenever Limited is on screen, it nukes the viewerbase on Twitch.

I'm pretty sure Limited is fairly popular to play, but it's not popular at all to watch. I used to be really into playing Limited but was never interested in actually watching coverage of it.

[Darkenslight]

Dropped Standard but not enough Legacy and to much Modern. I get that Modern is the most popular for some reason.

Modern makes an asston of money for the secondary market, simply because of the bulk cost. Legacy, Vintage and Commander make chunks of money per card, but you can't beat small profits from a wide range of items for being a decent business strategy.

[Megadeus]

Looks like at least in part chalice is starting to catch up to all the greed. Apparently top 4 of Team Grand Prix (team so it's somewhat skewed) it's two moon stompy, eldrazi, and Greedy 4 Color Pile

[Moosedog]

Modern is not even close to "Standard Plus." In fact, it's really never been that.

Granted, it's not Legacy Light either, but quite frankly it's considerably closer to being Legacy Light than it is to being Standard Plus.

and why is it not legacy light?

[Crimhead]

and why is it not legacy light?

I don't really play Modern, but Legacy is defined by a lot of strong, generic answers that make for very interactive games.
Modern is missing strong, generic answers and relies more on haymaker SB cards to balance the matches. At least that's what I hear.

I think Pauper might end up claiming the title of Legacy Lite...

[Mr. Safety]

I don't really play Modern, but Legacy is defined by a lot of strong, generic answers that make for very interactive games.
Modern is missing strong, generic answers and relies more on haymaker SB cards to balance the matches. At least that's what I hear.

I think Pauper might end up claiming the title of Legacy Lite...

I think you may be right on Pauper. It's getting a lot of attention, and it's becoming incredibly popular.

Your take on Modern is mostly correct. Legacy is by far the more interactive format, even with all the broken combos, but that is largely due to the ability to have a true control deck in the format. Jace is helping on that front in Modern, and I think Search for Azcanta is doing more for that type of strategy than people realize. Yes, matchups are polarized more in Modern, especially in tiers 1-2 of the format. It's diverse, but much more swingy in nature, if that makes sense. Even mid-range slug-fests are becoming more centered around card advantage, mostly due to JTMS/BBE for obvious reasons, that tip the scales quickly once introduced.

The one part that I think is a little off is that Modern does indeed have strong, generic answers. It just doesn't have strong, generic decks that fit the mold to attack with them. Modern's decks attack from unique angles that don't overlap as much as Legacy. In Legacy your storm answer (Ethersworn Canonist) also happens to work against Elves. Your grave hate for Dredge (Leyline of the Void) also happens to hose Br reanimator, and also just happens to do some damage against Storm. In modern, the overlap is much smaller. The lack of overlap actually helps keep diversity alive, but makes Modern more swingy. Legacy, in my opinion, has more overlap so diversity is stifled (just play the best deck in the section of the metagame you want to take advantage) but has more interaction because the number of decks you can account for with main/side is easier to manage. Add to all that a faster format with Legacy and your answer doesn't need to work forever, just long enough to do your own broken thing. That lets your hate cards overlap and still work.

Just my opinion.

[Vissah]

I don't really play Modern, but Legacy is defined by a lot of strong, generic answers that make for very interactive games.
Modern is missing strong, generic answers and relies more on haymaker SB cards to balance the matches. At least that's what I hear.

I think Pauper might end up claiming the title of Legacy Lite...

You`re right there mate. I played Modern for 5 years straight before I started playing Legacy.

In Modern the questions are strong but the answers are not as strong as the questions.
In Legacy the questions are very stroing but the answers are also very strong.
This is why I like Legacy better and I think makes Legacy the more interactive format.

[Crimhead]

The one part that I think is a little off is that Modern does indeed have strong, generic answers. It just doesn't have strong, generic decks that fit the mold to attack with them. Modern's decks attack from unique angles that don't overlap as much as Legacy. In Legacy your storm answer (Ethersworn Canonist) also happens to work against Elves. Your grave hate for Dredge (Leyline of the Void) also happens to hose Br reanimator, and also just happens to do some damage against Storm. In modern, the overlap is much smaller.

I guess by "generic" answers I mean answers that can be used against a multitude of strategies.

In Legacy we have (MD) Wasteland and Counter-spells that are effective against a wide range of decks. I believe (suspect) answers like this are what Modern would need to become "Legacy Lite".

[morgan_coke]

The Closed Beta NDA on Arena drops on the 22nd. I'll throw up a post summary about it then and answer questions for anyone who has any.

[Mr. Safety]

I guess by "generic" answers I mean answers that can be used against a multitude of strategies. In Legacy we have (MD) Wasteland and Counter-spells that are effective against a wide range of decks. I believe (suspect) answers like this are what Modern would need to become "Legacy Lite".

I'll admit the answers are slower, and the real problem with the format is there isn't even a genuine Counterspell, the closest is Deprive, let alone a Force of Will/Daze. The wasteland is Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter, which attacks non-basic lands but doesn't stifle tempo. I think we agree more than we disagree on this.

[easysantiago]

I think Pauper might end up claiming the title of Legacy Lite...

I second this. The comparison is apt.

[Humphrey]

to me it feels the days of competitve magic are numbered. at least in my region the casual edh crowd has taken over all magic places. limited on fnm is more or less the only format firing irregular. legacy is dead for years now, modern and standard is only played by the 2 grinders left.

[easysantiago]

to me it feels the days of competitve magic are numbered. at least in my region the casual edh crowd has taken over all magic places. limited on fnm is more or less the only format firing irregular. legacy is dead for years now, modern and standard is only played by the 2 grinders left.

Perhaps you are right, but the trend you have described is region dependent, and far as I know, there isn’t a larger data set out there to analyze. My experience is different (and probably an exception). EDH is a healthy part of the two regions I play in, but Legacy, Modern, Standard, and even Pauper are also doing well. Drafts fire every second day.