[Article] Deathrite Is Next

[Griselpuff]

https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...hrite-is-next/

So hypothetically, if the little green guy hits 50% of the meta, but it's not one deck. How would you guys feel?

I don't think it's inconsistent to leave Brainstorm (70%) and ban Deathrite because Brainstorm enables far more strategic diversity, whereas Deathrite makes games revolve around him, and he's just plainly too undercosted.

[btm10]

I'd like to see how the meta shakes out before I make a decision about this. Your points are totally reasonable, but I can imagine a situation where Lands and Reanimator are only held in check by Deathrite or running Vintage-esque levels of Graveyard hate, and then a ban becomes much less likely unless they're ok with knock-on bans.

[Julian23]

I'm on record saying that I wouldn't mind seeing DRS banned. However I just commissed my new logo and I have plans for it to include DRS

[H]

I mean, that is plausible, but I don't think this is a deterministic outcome of the Top ban.

Deathrite is really good. In fact, he is extremely good. Remember when people realized how good Tarmogoyf was? People were putting it in every deck. I think this is another case of that. People were even discussing banning Tarmogoyf at a point. I think we can look back at that and realize it was a bit silly.

Now, Deathrite is better than 'Goyf, sure, but I think the same principles apply. It's a creature, it doesn't have some crazy protection or anything. I think the format will adjust, more 'yard hate in the form of more Rest In Peace and other effective coutermeasures (Phyrexian Rovoker, etc.) will pick up as well. Things will sort themselves out. Decks that can prey on BUG decks, like Death and Taxes, UR Burn, and so on will pick up and Deathrite (while good in these matchups) won't really save them there. People will realize there are reasons not to run him and we'll find an equilibrium.

It'll take some time, but I am not buying the doom and gloom.

[Dice_Box]

It really wouldn't shock me if DRS took a bullet, but I would hard pressed to call anything right now. The meta is about to shift and shift big. I am not sure this is the moment when such predictions are truly able to be made.

At this point I think it's prudent to let the chips fall, then make calls on what we see.

[Crimhead]

The banned SDT, not Brainstorm.

Seems like - as has always been the case - they react to powerful decks, not powerful but versatile cards. Even with Treasure Cruise the sited reason was Patriot Delver (though more accurately should have been sited as a conglomerate of Patriot plus U/R Delver).

I can't see BUG decks being so abundant (and Jund or Maverick will not even be tier-one). Too many things to eat them.

I suppose it depends on how much of the Top decision was data based vs public outcry based. If they are listening to the angry mob, anything could happen.

[Dice_Box]

I suppose it depends on how much of the Top decision was data based vs public outcry based. If they are listening to the angry mob, anything could happen.

Let's be bluntly honest, Wizards is not listening to anyone but a balding man who use to work for them. Outside of that I don't think they really do. If they listened to us (As a whole) something would have happened long ago and there would be at lest three less cards on the list.

Saying "We hear you" after not doing anything for years is PR spin. The truth is likely closer to "Ok so the data for the last 6 GPs was highly slanted in one direction... And hey, something about online communities complaints, even though we haven't paid attention to that outside of the VSL..." It's fine that that's what got them to act, but they could at lest be honest about it and say: "We know you have all been asking for some changes for years, but Randy doesn't play your format, so shut up and sit in the corner."

[s&s]

DRS is first and foremost a mana dork.

Sure it does other things, but the decks listed in that article could replace them with hierarchs or birds without losing a significant amount of power.

The alternatives for SDT are far worse then the ones for DRS, can't really compare it. Unsure why anyone would say "DRS ties decks together" when it can be replaced by at least 2 cards while keeping the decks in great shape.

Mana dorks will always be popular for obvious reasons, DRS is the best generic manadork, hence its popularity. It isn't always the best dork for a specific deck though (infect), so the balance is probably fine. Its not part of any fancy 2-card combo, it just gets used for what most people like to have, mana.

[Mr Miagi]

DRS before Brainstorm? Article writers with their own agendas or just some generally acceptable Brainstorm bias?

As people have pointed out several times Brainstorm has far better numbers than DRS and for far longer time.

For the record, I'm not saying both are not stupid good and yes to a degree an autoinclude and I wouldn't shed a tier if both of them got the axe, but I'm not amused why people (in general, not only the author of this rather short article) are already calling for DRS ban while allowing all blue decks dominance due to Brainstorm.
I don't want this to derail into yet another Brainstorm thread, but I don't see articles and statements like this ("DRS is next") to be doing any good to Legacy either so.. you know, try to think with your own brains first before buying into sensationalism "DRS is next". I'm expecting next article to be titled "Only 1% of players know this secret".

[Megadeus]

DRS is first and foremost a mana dork.

Sure it does other things, but the decks listed in that article could replace them with hierarchs or birds without losing a significant amount of power.

The alternatives for SDT are far worse then the ones for DRS, can't really compare it. Unsure why anyone would say "DRS ties decks together" when it can be replaced by at least 2 cards while keeping the decks in great shape.

Mana dorks will always be popular for obvious reasons, DRS is the best generic manadork, hence its popularity. It isn't always the best dork for a specific deck though (infect), so the balance is probably fine. Its not part of any fancy 2-card combo, it just gets used for what most people like to have, mana.

I think you vastly underrate the subtle power of Deathrite. Being cast off of an underground sea is just the first way that it is far better because you don't have to run a pile of forests to cast your mana dorks

[Claymore]

I don't see the alarmism about a gattling gun of bannings about to be unleashed on Legacy, like they did with Modern. If you don't count the broken Treasure Cruise and DTT, Top is the first serious ban since what, Survival? And Survival only really came to sudden power with the release of Vengevine if I'm not mistaken, so that was a reactive banning as well within months. I'm not fully informed on that so if I'm mistaken please correct. Past that...?

Top got it's broken counterpart in Terminus and began dominating the format since 2012. Undisputed #1 deck by data for a solid year, maybe 2 years.

A single deck got Top banned because it had a warping stranglehold on the format and influenced Wizards design changes since 2012. I doubt DRS (or anything else except maybe, maybe Show and Tell) will be touched for a long, long time.

It's a 1/2 creature that's dependent on the graveyard. There's thousands of answers for that and several natural predators in the format - many of which just got unshackled because Miracles is gone.

[Julian23]

It's ok if some of you think pure numbers a certain card sees should be the deciding factor for whether something gets banned. But please have the maturity to acknowledge that not everyone shares your sentinment. I for example couldn't care less for numbers of a certain card if the meta itself was super diverse from a strategic point of view.

[Lemnear]

Sultai TNN is the next meta lord

4 DRS
4 Baleful
4 Tarmogoyf
4 TNN
3 Leovold
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Jace
4 FoW
3 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

some little modify and here is one of the next top 8 for the next 6 months

Kick out strix and Goyf to add thoughtseize & snapcaster. Thats my bet

[iatee]

DRS is first and foremost a mana dork.

Sure it does other things, but the decks listed in that article could replace them with hierarchs or birds without losing a significant amount of power.

The alternatives for SDT are far worse then the ones for DRS, can't really compare it. Unsure why anyone would say "DRS ties decks together" when it can be replaced by at least 2 cards while keeping the decks in great shape.

Mana dorks will always be popular for obvious reasons, DRS is the best generic manadork, hence its popularity. It isn't always the best dork for a specific deck though (infect), so the balance is probably fine. Its not part of any fancy 2-card combo, it just gets used for what most people like to have, mana.

DRS is a mana dork that esper and grixis decks get to play, which is nuts. If DRS is banned, Grixis Delver doesn't get to ramp. Delver players do not say 'hmm maybe we should play Birds of Paradise'. There would still be a few decks that ramp but it would slow down the format a lot. Right now decks that *aren't* base-green and aren't even designed to need a t1 ramp play get to have one anyway, because, why not, card is all upside.

[Maximus]

I don't think DRS is going anywhere. It's really strong but so is the rest of the format and it has to compete with the likes of LED or Entomb or Narcomoeba or Show and Tell. If anything it fits right in by promoting more interactive strategies at a similar power level. It's also much, much more negotiable than Top ever was, which has like 4 cards that are okay against it and you never wanted to maindeck any of them. And look how long than ban took. In particular, I'm not even sure DRS is better than Delver or Goyf going forward- killing your opponent quickly seems REALLY underrated by the strongest DRS advocates. Maybe it's from 3 years of PTSD from Terminus.

[Crimhead]

Let's be bluntly honest, Wizards is not listening to anyone but a balding man who use to work for them.

But to whom does he listen?

Was ArFo watching stats, or watching memes?

[Tormod]

Borderline click bait

[rlesko]

I think you vastly underrate the subtle power of Deathrite. Being cast off of an underground sea is just the first way that it is far better because you don't have to run a pile of forests to cast your mana dorks

I've been bitching about DRS for this exact reason.

[tescrin]

We'll see? I could be happy either way. DRS gets the axe someday? Hierarch's value explodes and Goose becomes a thing again.
Doesn't? Well I get to play a mana-dork + maindeck grave-hate in BUx.

[Richard Cheese]

Eh, the format will probably see more creatures overall, meaning more targeted removal. Not that every deck won't still run 4x of the little bastard, but it's also not something you'll necessarily be building your deck just to beat.