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Thread: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

  1. #781

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I'm like... WOW!
    Truely a unique and individual masterpiece this is. The way he interweaved the labes, coatls, okos and veils is simply mindblowing. And he even ran snow-covered lands to complement these cards further. Back then me and my boyz were joking about everything snow-covered, but this man single handedly prove us all wrong.
    It's true, at first glance these cards look like total underdogs, but if you look closely, you can see the magic this man made happen.
    I'm actually convinced, that we might see this well thought out combination of cards pop up in a lot of lists in the future. Hell, I can even imagine people giving them a shot in lists other than miracles.

  2. #782

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    - Choosing to even play terminus in your UGX deck (and succeeding with it) is already somewhat notable in itself in the current environment
    - Pure Bant instead of red splash for blasts (slightly better mana and space for 2nd mystic sanctuary), no veils main
    - 2 Veto maindeck and only 3 Plow showing respect for noncreatures, 4 Coatl / 3 Plow and 2 Veto / 0 CS splits are instructive
    - 3 Oko is stock at this point but choice of 1-1-1-1 Uro/Narset/JTMS/Teferi is somewhat preferential
    - SB Relic, 0 RIP/Surgical
    - Peacekeeper SB
    - 1 CJ SB instead of Return to Natures or Disenchant etc
    - 0 Mentor
    - Canonist SB seems to be a revival of some maybe slightly-forgotten technology

    The negativity is so fucking stupid
    - If there was some totally new deck winning then you would complain about the format changing too fast, and maybe that's what you are complaining about now? (hurr durr 2019 magic am i right guys?!?!?!?! no counterbalance??? no predict???? babyrage) But somehow you are also complaining that the 2019 deck is already stock/boring?
    - If the same RUG delver from 6+ years ago was still winning (4x Mongoose etc) then you would still be complaining about the format being stagnant/old/boring

  3. #783

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The negativity is so fucking stupid
    - If there was some totally new deck winning then you would complain about the format changing too fast, and maybe that's what you are complaining about now? (hurr durr 2019 magic am i right guys?!?!?!?! no counterbalance??? no predict???? babyrage) But somehow you are also complaining that the 2019 deck is already stock/boring?
    - If the same RUG delver from 6+ years ago was still winning (4x Mongoose etc) then you would still be complaining about the format being stagnant/old/boring
    I wasn't negative or complaining by any means. I just made a little fun of acting like someone cracked the secret code, when he actually used, what you called yourself the stock list +- a few meta choices.
    But you decided to somehow feel offended and that's ok.
    Where I play I could not withstand with only 3 STP and 2 Vetos. I was even forced to buff my Terminus count up to 4 and Vetos are not a consideration worth at all.

    Twndomn could've just written something along the lines of:"Hey, this is what miracles seems to be headed right now. This one guy did really well at a legacy challenge and the deck seems to be rock solid." Noone had batted an eye. But he decided to call him our Lord and Saviour for using the exact same cards basically everyone uses in every ever so slightly viable deck for the past year and that is what I made fun of.

  4. #784
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Anyone here looking at RipHelm?

    I think it looks promising in this meta for a number of reasons:
    -Maindeck RiP is good vs metagame of many graveyard decks (Hogaak, Oops, Reanimator, Lands) and GY value engines (Uro, Arcanist)

    -Enchantments can't be Elked. Snoko is much better at fighting creatures, artifacts and planeswalkers and weaker to Enchantments.

    -Combo is immune to red blasts

    -Faster games than Sharknado

    -Blank their creature removal in game 1

    -ETutor package lets you run some singleton "I win" cards like Blood Moon, Suppression Field and Porphyry Nodes without having to run multiple copies of the highly conditional card

    -Energy Field+RiP lock means opponent can create infinite Rogue Elephants with a 20-loyalty planeswalker and you don't really care

    -Energy Field is a low cmc solution to fast aggro, an alternative to Terminus (more awkward since Top's banning, needs Portent) and Verdict (high CMC is bad vs mana denial aggro). Even on its own it can buy tempo against fast aggro starts and 20/20s.

    -Fast combo finish means it's less imperative to be able to support Counterbalance lock long-term (which has been harder without Top). Any cards it blocks is value, and it draws out the same removal that would stop the RiP combo.


    Current List


    //Spells: 25
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Predict
    1 Unexpectedly Absent
    2 Force of Negation
    1 Terminus

    //Enchantments: 12
    1 Porphyry Nodes
    4 Rest in Peace
    3 Counterbalance
    2 Energy Field
    1 Detention Sphere
    1 Shark Typhoon

    //Planeswalkers: 1
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Artifacts: 2
    1 Arcum's Astrolabe
    1 Helm of Obedience

    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    4 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Karakas

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Web of Inertia
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Suppression Field
    1 Deafening Silence
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Wear // Tear


    Curve:
    1 - 17
    2 - 12
    3 - 4
    4 - 1
    5 - 4
    6 - 2


    Web of Inertia also forms an anti-creature lock with RiP. It prevents attacks, which also stops triggers from creatures like Uro and Emrakul.

    OTP T1 EOT ETutor into T2 Suppression Field is a free win against many decks, and at least buys a lot of tempo against many others. Otherwise the card is too symmetrical and too weak lategame, so that's why there's only the 1-of and in the SB. It only comes in OTP and for certain matchups.
    Last edited by FTW; 10-20-2020 at 04:42 PM.

  5. #785
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Anyone here looking at RipHelm?
    I've been toying with RipHelm with the current meta in mind as well, more in a Land Tax deck that runs City of Traitors and Mox Diamonds to support Karn strategies as well.
    Abrupt Decay continues to be a problem, to the point of valuing Misdirection over Force of Negation.
    Have yet to see real tests against decks bring in Force of Vigor against us, could be a really problem to see our lock disassembled so simply.
    Your card quantities seem odd but I'd be interested in hearing feedback after testing.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #786
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    I've been toying with RipHelm with the current meta in mind as well, more in a Land Tax deck that runs City of Traitors and Mox Diamonds to support Karn strategies as well.
    Abrupt Decay continues to be a problem, to the point of valuing Misdirection over Force of Negation.
    Have yet to see real tests against decks bring in Force of Vigor against us, could be a really problem to see our lock disassembled so simply.
    Your card quantities seem odd but I'd be interested in hearing feedback after testing.
    How does the Land Tax deck do?

    Yeah, Force of Vigor and Decay are both big risks. My testing so far has been against RUG Delver, Snowko, UR Delver, Burn, Vial aggro (D&T and Goblins), and some combo, so I've faced a lack of Decay and FoV. I might need to tweak slots to handle that.

    Seeing less BG (and therefore less Decay) in the top decks was another one of the factors that pushed me towards RipHelm and Counterbalance.

    Because it's a UWr control shell, some of my strategy is just to establish a lock piece or overwhelm their disruption before even attempting to deploy Helm, then go off once the game is under control. Against aggro I usually deploy RiPField first and then sculpt my protection and combo behind a wall. Against disruptive decks I try to establish Counterbalance first and let them drain resources fighting that. Those lines tend to draw out disenchant effects first before the combo is exposed. Postboard I bring in the 2nd Helm and can also toy with their manabase via Blood Moon and Suppression Field, which will force out answers before the combo is exposed. Most decks are not equipped to play against 12+ enchantments. In testing the opponent is usually out of gas by the time I deploy Helm. I'll need to test more against Vigor and Decay decks though to see if this works.

    The deck is very good at punking Oko & Uro value. Oko turns into a bad Garruk that only makes 3/3s every other turn and has no other abilities. Uro is virtually impossible to fuel even after they remove RiP and dies to Swords/Karakas anyway.

    Some of the random 1-ofs are to have ETutor options all across the curve so ETutor can turn on Counterbalance with a spell on the stack. Porphyry and Astrolabe at 1 cmc, many enchantments at 2 cmc, Detention Sphere at 3 cmc, Helm at 4 cmc. SB EE for 0 cmc, along with additional 3s and 1s which help if some of the maindeck ones get boarded out. Blue count for Forces is also relevant. The card choices are influenced by curve and color as well as need for role players.

    Predict is there both for its interactions with Counterbalance and as a way to actually draw cards.

    Unexpectedly Absent is there over Council's Judgment/etc as a multi-modal card: it can remove a problem, it can save a combo piece form disenchants, or it can even tuck a permanent to turn on Counterbalance.

    Teferi also protects me from surprise disenchants on RiP ruining your day. I originally had more copies of Teferi and a Jace but I found them awkward to protect, so I cut down to just the 1 Teferi. It can be very good sometimes at protecting combo pieces and enabling instant Ponder with CB, but otherwise planeswalkers are a liability and too easy for the opponent to kill in an Oko format. I kept wanting to cut planeswalkers for more enchantments.

    I tested a 1-of Mystic Sanctuary for the counterbalance tricks, but the tapped land was just too slow vs the minor benefit it offered, and by the time I hit 3 Islands I would have usually resolved at least 1 RiP anyway.

    Sharknado is there as a backup in case I think I can't win with Helm.

    Any suggestions for card inclusions or cards you think shouldn't be there? What's been good for you in the Land Tax version? Do you play Defense Grid or any enchantment/artifact protection effects?

  7. #787
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I mean, when it works, it's great. Doesn't work often enough against enough opponents to really make it past tier 2, so you gotta love the engine more than you love winning :|

    I just wish Energy Field also protected your planeswalkers, since slow control would really benefit from the typical Jace and Narset inclusions.
    This discussion might be the provocation to sleeve up something and try it out, I'll let you know what I find out.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  8. #788
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Good point. Even if it works, other versions of UWx control are already tier 1 so it would take substantial results to justify the combo. I'll keep the discussion to the N&D section then.

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Good point. Even if it works, other versions of UWx control are already tier 1 so it would take substantial results to justify the combo. I'll keep the discussion to the N&D section then.
    Right I'm not trying to pivot the discussion, Miracles is probably the superior shell. My comment was more affirmation that the meta is probably ripe for maindeck graveyard hate, and if it wins you the game along the way, then it's a serious contender. I'll toy around with your list and let you know how it performs.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  10. #790
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Any interest in Triumph of Saint Katherine?

    Seems very strong on rate vs non stp decks, helps shut the door nicely on delver, and is a great clock vs combo as a sort of goyf with flash and lifelink.

    I'll be trying four copies at my local tonight in a Mentor heavy shell.

  11. #791
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I think it has potential at 2-3 copies. 4 seems like overkill, since it requires some setup and then has built-in inevitability (goes back to library if not exiled). You don't want to get stuck with too many expensive non-blue Miracle cards in hand or be too aggressive in this reactive deck. But some copies look good.

    Like you said, it's a decent clock that dodges much removal (Bolt, REB, Push, Decay, Ending, Karakas, Stomp, Punishing Fire). It also gives UWr much-needed lifegain, stabilizing the late game.

    I posted this in another thread.

    UWr Miracles of Saint Katherine
    //Spells: 26
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Portent
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Prismatic Ending
    3 Predict
    1 Dovin's Veto
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Terminus

    //Creatures: 6
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Triumph of Saint Katherine

    //Planeswalkers: 4
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    //Enchantments: 4
    3 Counterbalance
    1 Dress Down

    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    3 Island
    2 Plains
    1 Mountain
    1 Mystic Sanctuary

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Hydroblast
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Ruination
    1 Meltdown
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Surgical Extraction

    Once you play all the Miracle enablers to support Saint Katherine (Brainstorm, Portent, Predict, Jace), then Counterbalance is a natural fit. I basically subbed in Triumph of Saint Katherine over 1 Entreat (miracle wincon) and 1 Terminus (you can fight small creatures with 5/5 lifelink). Predict fits here even better than EI.

    CB curve
    0 - 20
    1 - 16
    2 - 11
    3 - 3
    4 - 2
    5 - 7
    6 - 1

    How did it work with both Triumph and Mentor? Did you find there were too many creatures and not enough room for control?

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  13. #793
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Kept some bad hands, but thatís on me. I do wish I found my grafdiggers cage so I could have split the crypts. Iím not sure if narset was good enough as I didnít see it in any games. I enjoyed the list though. It felt strong.
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  14. #794
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Did you come against any Ring/Beanstalk lists?

    My recent matches have been a contest between whoever is getting massive card advantage versus the decks applying the punish in either Narset or Bowmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I did not. Lot of permanents and me having the wrong removal for them.
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  16. #796

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control


  17. #797
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Iíd say thatís a beanstalk deck more then anything, especially with yorion.
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Hi everyone! Is there a primer on 4C yorion beanstalk decks? Appreciate the leads! Thanks!

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duck!! View Post
    Hi everyone! Is there a primer on 4C yorion beanstalk decks? Appreciate the leads! Thanks!
    No primer here for 4c/5c Yorion. Feel free to make one!

    It's grown distinct enough from the older UWx control that it deserves a separate thread, especially the Beanstalk builds.

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