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Thread: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

  1. #21

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Winter Orb is definitely a card that should be considered in the SB; its effect is very powerful against control. Unfortunately, it is really only useful against control, and often is sometimes not quite strong enough when opponents may have removal for it. Still, it is one of the cards we can play that is most likely to simply win the game. While I like the idea of Tsabo's Web, it's extremely niche and doesn't beat anything Winter Orb doesn't, so I'd recommend sticking with Winter Orb.

    The problem with Mind Bomb and Tyrant's Choice is you never get the mode you most want. Contagion isn't terrible, but I think we can do better (I'd rather play Darkblast, personally). Skeletal Scrying has been addressed.



    Today, Noah Walker was spotted running Echoing Truth. I think this card should be considered, especially in relation to Ratchet Bomb and Diabolic Edict.

    Ratchet Bomb: Answers all Chalices, Moxen, and tokens at once, can scale up, not color-limited.
    Echoing Truth: Instant speed, can pitch to Force, clears multiple Chalices, Moxen, or tokens at once, great versus Reanimator and Marit Lage, can momentarily answer Crusader.
    Diabolic Edict: Instant speed, great versus Reanimator and Marit Lage, can theoretically remove a TNN or Crusader.

    Anyone who is playing multiple Bombs and Edicts should strongly consider whether replacing 1-2 copies with Echoing Truth might improve their SB's flexibility.

  2. #22

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Has anyone tested Divert?

    Good against removal (stp, bolt, fata), discards (seize, hymn) and even against counters., Etc.

  3. #23

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    I've played Divert in place of a Spell Pierce in lists that play multiple Pierce. It's fine, I just know it sucks when they drop Jace and you are staring at a hand that could have had an answer if you weren't trying to be so cute.

    It's fine if you like it, but I don't think it's the best decision you can make, and I certainly don't think it's better than any other card already in the 60.

  4. #24

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    What do you guys think is the right Splash color right now and would be getting etablished in the future? Right now I am on the G-Splash with 1 Berserk and 1 Library main. Berserk is great, but Library didn`t impressed me so far. Often times it does just nothing. Further I haven`t seen really much Goyfs so far but a lot of Strixes, which Bolt is the better answer against. Further I think it could make the deck even more aggressive, which is always a main goal of Shadows. Abrade in the Side for all the D&T arround and Blasts for Jaces and other U-stuff. When I started with Shadow`s I was 100 % convinced about the green Splash, but now I am not sure, if it is and will be the right splashing color. I would appreciate it, if you will share your experiences and opinions with me, about the splashing colors.

    Greetz

  5. #25

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Until you are able to adequately test Assassin's Trophy, I don't think you will be able to make a rational, lasting decision. I don't think gauging it's parameters according to how A. Decay plays is going to do it justice.

    Abrade against DnT will cost 3 often. If I have to pay 3, I prefer it be a card that handles (almost) any (permanent) in (almost) any matchup or is uncounterable.

    I love Library. I'm unsure why you feel that way.

    Edit: clarity.
    Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 09-27-2018 at 12:12 AM.

  6. #26

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    I have done a lot of testings tonight and I am nearly to be ashmed that I haven`t gotten Library more value before . The card is a beast! It won me several games, by recovering, where I was far behind one the board. In one match I got double Swords on Shadow 6/6 and Delver, topdecked Library and won with the fast live loss and massive card drawing. I wish I could make room for a second copy of it. Really I have thoughted of cutting one Wraith for it. Wraith always feels like a bad cantrip without Reanimate, but he`s high synergie in the deck not sure. I think I stick to Bug, because of Library and Berserk annother power card in the deck and like mentioned the new (maybe) premium removal Throphy. I think we are the only Tempo deck that could afford it, because we alreaddy doesn`t rely that much on Wasteland and/ or Stifle. Maybe than the deck will change to something more midrangy, because the tempo plan isn`t so valuable anymore, if your opponent gots free ramp.

  7. #27

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    What do you guys think about a BR death's shadow build? viable? with bolts, faithless lootings, night's whisper, maybe dark rituals.... just throwing out ideas

  8. #28

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by johncarvalho View Post
    What do you guys think about a BR death's shadow build? viable? with bolts, faithless lootings, night's whisper, maybe dark rituals.... just throwing out ideas
    u will have to explain your idea a little more.
    Do u want to build a tempo deck? Kind midrange.
    Anyway, i dont think it is viable any kind. Delver and daze are essencial to tempo out opponents. Dark ritual and night whispers are slow. Faithless looting is card disantvage and the only merit is acellerate gurmag. They are just not good cards in this deck IMO. Only thoughtseize is not enought ahainst combo.
    I can be wrong. Maybe u can test a burn br deck with flame rift, shadow, eidolon, and guide or monastery and other burn spell.

  9. #29

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by johncarvalho View Post
    What do you guys think about a BR death's shadow build? viable?
    No.

  10. #30

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Thordog View Post
    u will have to explain your idea a little more.
    Do u want to build a tempo deck? Kind midrange.
    Anyway, i dont think it is viable any kind. Delver and daze are essencial to tempo out opponents. Dark ritual and night whispers are slow. Faithless looting is card disantvage and the only merit is acellerate gurmag. They are just not good cards in this deck IMO. Only thoughtseize is not enought ahainst combo.
    I can be wrong. Maybe u can test a burn br deck with flame rift, shadow, eidolon, and guide or monastery and other burn spell.
    Lol no this is not what he means...

    What do you guys think about a BR death's shadow build? viable? with bolts, faithless lootings, night's whisper, maybe dark rituals.... just throwing out ideas
    Try something like this:

    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Young Pyromancer
    3 Gurmag Angler
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Night's Whisper
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Dismember
    2 Snuff Out
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Reanimate
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Blood Crypt
    1 Badlands
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain
    4 Wasteland

    -> The first idea is to have Death's Shadow which is supported by Night's Whisper, Shocklands, Reanimate, Street Wraith, Snuff Out and Dismember. The second idea to keep the engine running is through Faithless Looting which is harmonizing very well with Reanimate. An other target to discard for Looting and making it more powerful is Cabal Therapy which leads to playing Young Pyromancer as your second Tempo card which replaces Delver of Secrets of Ub Shadow. Gurmag Angler is just an other "free" creature which is extremely hard to remove so you put it in. Dont play Bedlam Reveler, this is way to optimistic in Legacy imho. And wooolllaaaahh, this could be a BR Shadow list, it obviously needs to be tuned a lot, this is just an idea.

    2 things before even testing it: The deck is definitely worse than BR Reanimator! Second fact is against combo decks Thoughtseize and Therapy are worse than counterspells + eventually discard spells from the board, so it is also less powerful to everything which comes in U (not playing against U, just against the field compared to U). Also protecting your threats against removal spells seems somehow impossible unless you pack in even more discard! But that does not mean its a "BAD" build in general. Play around with it and test it yourself, maybe Cabal Therapy is to optimistic and 4 Hymn to Tourach could do a much better job. Also Kolaghan's Command could be sweet. Im afraid that Faithless Looting as good as the card is would loose a lot of value and then the deck is much more terrible than it should be. So somehow you need to make it worth that discard is strong enough to beat unfair decks and Faithless Looting remains powerful. Maybe more creatures and 4 Reanimate? Test it and let us know :) But dont get your hopes up, Tempo in U is just soooo much better than BR.

  11. #31

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    @IamHandsome Yeah, I was talking about something like that =) It's very similar to what I had in mind, I will test some stuff and report back when I can!

  12. #32

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    RB is different fundamentally. IF you manage to find a way to make a legacy deck without blue with Death's Shadow, I would encourage you to make a thread about it. Discussion of a deck with only one or two overlapping card choices and a different overall strategy (mid-range vs. tempo) seems like it warrants it's own branch-off instead of cluttering up this one.

  13. #33

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Played UB Shadow for the first time today and 3-0 (6-0'd) a local tournament. I must say the deck feels really strong, even after I thought it was going to lose steam once the hype around CFB's performance would end.

    When browsing lists I stumbled upon a list that made a 1st and 2nd place finish in the most recent SCG Legacy classic, which completely cut Reanimate and any counters beyond the obvious 8 (Daze, FoW) in favor of maindeck Hymn to Tourach, the 9th cantrip and the 5th creature removal spell, which does seem like a minor but noticeable change when compared to the stock original CFB list most people just adopted in the last few weeks. Has anyone tested those alterations and knows more abut the reasonings behind them?

    Not knowing what exact list to bring to my first attempt at the deck I played a list with all singletons in those last few flex slots in the main to find out what I liked best, but 3 rounds weren't quite enough to get representative results. Needless to say the deck still worked very well regardless.

  14. #34

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    Played UB Shadow for the first time today and 3-0 (6-0'd) a local tournament. I must say the deck feels really strong, even after I thought it was going to lose steam once the hype around CFB's performance would end.

    When browsing lists I stumbled upon a list that made a 1st and 2nd place finish in the most recent SCG Legacy classic, which completely cut Reanimate and any counters beyond the obvious 8 (Daze, FoW) in favor of maindeck Hymn to Tourach, the 9th cantrip and the 5th creature removal spell, which does seem like a minor but noticeable change when compared to the stock original CFB list most people just adopted in the last few weeks. Has anyone tested those alterations and knows more abut the reasonings behind them?

    Not knowing what exact list to bring to my first attempt at the deck I played a list with all singletons in those last few flex slots in the main to find out what I liked best, but 3 rounds weren't quite enough to get representative results. Needless to say the deck still worked very well regardless.
    I remember LSV saying that Reanimate is actually a very important card for the deck which took it to a much higher level because Street Wraith became all of the sudden a virtual flipped Delver. I think in general you can build Ubx Shadow in many different ways imho but the fact is that with Miracles and Grixis Control belonging to the best decks its insanely easy to remove a Shadow. Just think about Swords to Plowshares, Fatal Push and Diabolic Edicts. So I think Stubborn Denial is a very important card for that deck. Playing 5 removal spells instead of 4 is probably better in creature heavier metas, so you could cut maybe 1 Thoughtseize or 1 Reanimate for it. Hymn to Tourach main feels a little clunky next to Thoughtseize, but its excellent in the sideboard especially against combo.

  15. #35

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    While a lot of the deck's power (and let's be honest, fun too) comes from Reanimate, I think it is acceptable to consider reducing the quantity in a metagame is filled with white removal, where your cycled Street Wraiths are your only targets. I also think increasing the quantity of disruption and matching it to needs is important, and Stubborn Denial has done a lot to reduce the impact of random Swords to Plowshares and Terminus to our boards.

    That said, we may be a victim of our own success. While we're undoubtedly the most powerful non-combo deck in the format, DSD was designed to smash an environment where a large portion of people were convinced that casting Show and Tell was the best thing you could be doing, and that combo otherwise was great. Unfortunately, we did so well, there is pretty much no combo around anymore (or it's of the select sort that we don't have great weapons against), and this has allowed heavy-control decks to start dominating things.

    I suspect we will probably see a decline in DSD play over the next few months (a few points, not anything near total abandonment), which will open the door to combo to winnow the Miracles and Grixis Control players, and then things will reach a sort of cyclic equilibrium. Which is pretty much always how it goes.

  16. #36

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Reanimate is what makes the deck for me...
    Besides its pure synergy with Wraith and Shadow, its awesome grabbing the oppnts Griselbrands, True-Names, Emrakul (non-shuffle one) etc..
    Also, reanimating a Snapcaster Mage, then targeting Reanimate to get another creature from the yard is priceless.

  17. #37

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    what is the impact of Assassin's Trophy on metagame and about Shadow for you?

  18. #38

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by silinhateamtop View Post
    what is the impact of Assassin's Trophy on metagame and about Shadow for you?
    I'm playing a 1/1 Decay/Trophy split main and side to test. so far it makes me want to play Surgical main, but I still think that's the danger of cool things in me talking.

  19. #39

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Hymn + Trophy will just take back Spell Snare

    Field of Ruins also is making UWcontrol always better

  20. #40

    Re: [DTB] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Hymn + Trophy will just take back Spell Snare

    Field of Ruins also is making UWcontrol always better
    Sure. I play Daze, FoW, wasteland. I'll take my chances.

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