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Thread: Grixis Phoenix

  1. #141
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    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by ButterTime View Post
    I saw you got 2nd place in the last legaue, congratulations! How do you like Dark Confidant in the deck? I also have a question about having a turn 1 or turn 2 buried alive. Do you always try to use a discard spell on your opponent first?
    Thanks!

    Dark Confidant was really good on Sunday, but that was my first time trying it so it's still a very small sample size. I'll keep playing him to try it more, Tombstalker is also excellent still though.

    As for going for T1 or T2 combos, it's really, really context dependent. I've been trying to write some sb notes or tips but the reality is I sideboard differently vs different decks all the time, this then extends to general play patterns too. The eventual answer will be 'it depends', but if I have a turn one combo on the play vs unknown opponent I will go for it. If I'm on the draw I can use their first play for information, if it's a blue fetch land I will probably cantrip for discard for example because they're either going to have countermagic or be a combo deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  2. #142

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Sry in advance for bad london.

    I took the deck for a spin at my LGS today finishing 2-2, winning against DnT, Tinfins and loosing to UR Delver and Turbo Depths. I was basically playing the same 75 as TC, with confidants minus one Bolt and plus one UG sea (I think that 15 lands are to low). Here are some thoughts:

    I felt like there should be atleast one more threat, so i will probably play one more Young Pyromancer, this will also make Cabal Therapy better (And this list runs 4 cabal and 3 Thoughseize).

    Dark Confidant was good and i dont think i want to cut them in this stage at least, following up a discard with him is nice.

    Sideboarding was extremly difficult and i almost never knew what i was gonna take out, usually i went for 1 Buried Alive, 1 Phoenix and some numbers of Petals.

    Lightning bolt felt bad, mb this has something to do with me running just 2. I dont know if i will cut them for a less flexible removal or if i will go up in numbers, since i think its important to be able to interact vs opponents creatures.

    Im not sure petal is better then chrome mox in the deck.

    Tombstalker makes us more graveyard dependent, wich i think is bad since leylines and RIP will hurt us more.

    The deck felt "slimmed"(best english word i could find) and it made me feel like there was not a lot of space to mixture and trim.



    Im really looking forward on how this deck develops.

  3. #143

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Thanks!

    Dark Confidant was really good on Sunday, but that was my first time trying it so it's still a very small sample size. I'll keep playing him to try it more, Tombstalker is also excellent still though.

    As for going for T1 or T2 combos, it's really, really context dependent. I've been trying to write some sb notes or tips but the reality is I sideboard differently vs different decks all the time, this then extends to general play patterns too. The eventual answer will be 'it depends', but if I have a turn one combo on the play vs unknown opponent I will go for it. If I'm on the draw I can use their first play for information, if it's a blue fetch land I will probably cantrip for discard for example because they're either going to have countermagic or be a combo deck.
    I think I'll give Dark Confidant a try althought I may play a 4rth Thoughtseize. Your thoughts on only playing 3?

  4. #144
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    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Burk3n View Post
    Sry in advance for bad london.

    I took the deck for a spin at my LGS today finishing 2-2, winning against DnT, Tinfins and loosing to UR Delver and Turbo Depths. I was basically playing the same 75 as TC, with confidants minus one Bolt and plus one UG sea (I think that 15 lands are to low). Here are some thoughts:

    I felt like there should be atleast one more threat, so i will probably play one more Young Pyromancer, this will also make Cabal Therapy better (And this list runs 4 cabal and 3 Thoughseize).

    Dark Confidant was good and i dont think i want to cut them in this stage at least, following up a discard with him is nice.

    Sideboarding was extremly difficult and i almost never knew what i was gonna take out, usually i went for 1 Buried Alive, 1 Phoenix and some numbers of Petals.

    Lightning bolt felt bad, mb this has something to do with me running just 2. I dont know if i will cut them for a less flexible removal or if i will go up in numbers, since i think its important to be able to interact vs opponents creatures.

    Im not sure petal is better then chrome mox in the deck.

    Tombstalker makes us more graveyard dependent, wich i think is bad since leylines and RIP will hurt us more.

    The deck felt "slimmed"(best english word i could find) and it made me feel like there was not a lot of space to mixture and trim.



    Im really looking forward on how this deck develops.
    No problem for the language, I understood everything :)

    Adding another threat is fine, I want a 4th Young Pyromancer in the deck too but have been struggling to find space now.

    Sideboarding is really hard yes, I think this is what people may struggle with most. I sideboard differently vs different opponents playing the same decks, I plan to write up some sb guide very soon though.

    Lightning Bolt has continued to be great for me, I think you not liking them is because of the very small sample size of 4 matches and your matchups.

    I've not tried Chrome Mox but I've learnt that this deck doesn't want to play cards that are card disadvantage if possible, Petals and Dark Rituals are the exception and the reason why for this. You need to balance card advantage and disadvantage proportionately.

    In theory yes Tombstalker is bad vs Leyline and RiP, but those cards aren't played that much in the format, it's just stompy decks playing Leyline (and sometimes they're on Macabre) and DnT playing rip basically from the top tier decks. And if they have them it's not hard to cantrip/brainstorm Tombstalker away.

    I agree that there is still space to work on the deck. The latest lists we've been playing/I've posted are feeling like they're getting better and better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ButterTime View Post
    I think I'll give Dark Confidant a try althought I may play a 4rth Thoughtseize. Your thoughts on only playing 3?
    I'm sure playing just 3 TS was a mistake, honestly I got home just in time to put the deck together quickly and sign up so it was a bit rushed. I'm now not sure what the cut will be to put the 4th back in, probably either a Dark Confidant, Lightning Bolt or Daze.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  5. #145

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    I already want to play a 4rth bolt and a 3rd daze so I don't think that's the slot to cut, but if I had to choose I'd cut a daze. Either a dark confidant or a young pyromancer was my thought. Sometimes I want one over the other so I'd say a daze over a bolt. Daze is really nice when you can actually daze something, but that hasn't happened very often for me.

  6. #146
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    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by ButterTime View Post
    I already want to play a 4rth bolt and a 3rd daze so I don't think that's the slot to cut, but if I had to choose I'd cut a daze. Either a dark confidant or a young pyromancer was my thought. Sometimes I want one over the other so I'd say a daze over a bolt. Daze is really nice when you can actually daze something, but that hasn't happened very often for me.
    Daze is also free or +1 mana to turn on phoenixes (phoenices?) in a pinch from two lands and 2 other non daze spells.

    How often does this deck find itself racing or winning with a turn before death? Thinking about building this but don't own duals, obviously the self damage from bob seems bad/ hard to manage but other than that I'm not sure on the times the deck finds itself racing. It kind of opens up a weird path to play DS in one of the flex slots? Probably not great but somewhere I think bob/ tombstalker is still better there though (Card advantage and flying respectively versus just a big idiot).

  7. #147

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    I just sleeved this deck up and am looking for ways to help this deck evolve. I have seen a couple other interesting lists with different angles on how to play the deck. At this time what would you say are the decks worst matchups? I know a couple people mentioned grixis delver, eldrazi aggro and lands.Dk what we could do to help these matchups as they are on the rise. Also any updates or sideboard guides would be helpful as I can test locally and give feedback on interactions and problems that come up. Was playing grixis omnitell but this deck has my attention at the moment. The power level seems insane!

  8. #148
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    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancor85 View Post
    I just sleeved this deck up and am looking for ways to help this deck evolve. I have seen a couple other interesting lists with different angles on how to play the deck. At this time what would you say are the decks worst matchups? I know a couple people mentioned grixis delver, eldrazi aggro and lands.Dk what we could do to help these matchups as they are on the rise. Also any updates or sideboard guides would be helpful as I can test locally and give feedback on interactions and problems that come up. Was playing grixis omnitell but this deck has my attention at the moment. The power level seems insane!
    The hardest matchups so far for me have been Depths (esp BUG), Lands, Aggro Loam and Eldrazi. The latter two are much easier to beat than Depths and Lands, but still tough. We have little to no way to interact with lands like the Stage Depths Combo and Glacial Chasm is the reason. I've tried Alpine Moon specifically for Depths and it wins games, but it's very narrow. I've also played a little bit with Blood Moon, though the concern was that it was too slow vs Depths to get under both their combo and discard, but that was pre-Lotus Petals, it's probably worth testing again.

    I'm in the process of writing a preliminary 'sb guide', but in my opinion the deck is still being built and the sideboard especially is in flux, so I'd fear writing something like that might stifle people testing different sb configurations. If you have an idea please do test it and report back.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  9. #149

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    The hardest matchups so far for me have been Depths (esp BUG), Lands, Aggro Loam and Eldrazi. The latter two are much easier to beat than Depths and Lands, but still tough. We have little to no way to interact with lands like the Stage Depths Combo and Glacial Chasm is the reason. I've tried Alpine Moon specifically for Depths and it wins games, but it's very narrow. I've also played a little bit with Blood Moon, though the concern was that it was too slow vs Depths to get under both their combo and discard, but that was pre-Lotus Petals, it's probably worth testing again.

    I'm in the process of writing a preliminary 'sb guide', but in my opinion the deck is still being built and the sideboard especially is in flux, so I'd fear writing something like that might stifle people testing different sb configurations. If you have an idea please do test it and report back.
    Yeah outside of blood moon I do how you sure up those matchups. Might be our only option honestly. I did find a list from Japan that I'm going to try at the next fnm. Its definitely interesting...

    Lands(18)

    4《Polluted Delta》

    2《Scalding Tarn》

    3《Bloodstained Mire》

    3《Underground Sea》

    2《Badlands》

    2《Volcanic Island》

    1《Swamp》

    1《Island》

    Creatures(11)

    4《Arclight Phoenix》

    2《Baleful Strix》

    3《Young Pyromancer》

    2《Gurmag Angler》

    Spells(31)

    4《Brainstorm》

    4《Ponder》

    2《Thought Scour》

    3《Thoughtseize》

    4《Cabal Therapy》

    4《Dark Ritual》

    4《Lightning Bolt》

    4《Buried Alive》

    1《Liliana, the Last Hope》

    1《Jace, the Mind Sculptor》

    Sideboard Cards(15)

    2《Abrade》

    1《Pyroblast》

    1《Red Elemental Blast》

    2《Diabolic Edict》

    2《Empty the Warrens》

    2《Surgical Extraction》

    2《Collective Brutality》

    2《Flusterstorm》

    1《Theater of Horrors》

  10. #150

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancor85 View Post
    Yeah outside of blood moon I do how you sure up those matchups. Might be our only option honestly. I did find a list from Japan that I'm going to try at the next fnm. Its definitely interesting...

    Lands(18)

    4《Polluted Delta》

    2《Scalding Tarn》

    3《Bloodstained Mire》

    3《Underground Sea》

    2《Badlands》

    2《Volcanic Island》

    1《Swamp》

    1《Island》

    Creatures(11)

    4《Arclight Phoenix》

    2《Baleful Strix》

    3《Young Pyromancer》

    2《Gurmag Angler》

    Spells(31)

    4《Brainstorm》

    4《Ponder》

    2《Thought Scour》

    3《Thoughtseize》

    4《Cabal Therapy》

    4《Dark Ritual》

    4《Lightning Bolt》

    4《Buried Alive》

    1《Liliana, the Last Hope》

    1《Jace, the Mind Sculptor》

    Sideboard Cards(15)

    2《Abrade》

    1《Pyroblast》

    1《Red Elemental Blast》

    2《Diabolic Edict》

    2《Empty the Warrens》

    2《Surgical Extraction》

    2《Collective Brutality》

    2《Flusterstorm》

    1《Theater of Horrors》

    There are some really strange card choices in this list.

  11. #151

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    3 Dark Confidant
    3 Young Pyromancer
    4 Arclight Phoenix

    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Buried Alive
    2 Daze
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Lightning Bolt

    4 Polluted Dela
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    Sb:
    4 Surgical Extraction
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Thing in the Ice
    2 Ground Seal
    1 Marsh Casualties
    2 Abrade
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Echoing Truth


    Hello everyone! I played a whitefaces list with little modifications this weekend and i went 5-0-1 and the losing in the finals to turbo dephts (he mulliganed to 5 an turn 3 me and g2 i kept a hand with DR Confi turn 1 and ive never drawn the second land in 15 looks). First time playing the deck and i loved it! I played aganist : UW taxes (1-1), SnS(2-0), Storm (2-1), Canadian (2-0), Depths ID(but played 2-1), Burn (2-1), BR reanimator (2-1), T depths (0-2).
    I tried out ground seal but i dont think its needed, ita cute tho. The cards im not sure in the main are actually bobs, dazes and bolts.. overall dazes and bolts the most! i know the points of why you have those cards in your list, but i felt like the deck needs to go super fast against SnS, depths, storm ecc or slow against all the delver strategy, ds, grixis control to find a spot to rit buried alive and grind em out and those cards are meh lot of times! Idk i felt the deck was really powerful but still missing something! But hey, idk how to make it better right now, so just writing down my feelings as first time playin it! TITI was amazing, against creature based, depths, sns, br or as an alternative win con its super hard to kill. I played surgicals over tormods because i couldnt find the crypts, overall i liked them, sometimes you need one more spell.

  12. #152

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
    3 Dark Confidant
    3 Young Pyromancer
    4 Arclight Phoenix

    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Buried Alive
    2 Daze
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Lightning Bolt

    4 Polluted Dela
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    Sb:
    4 Surgical Extraction
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Thing in the Ice
    2 Ground Seal
    1 Marsh Casualties
    2 Abrade
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Echoing Truth


    Hello everyone! I played a whitefaces list with little modifications this weekend and i went 5-0-1 and the losing in the finals to turbo dephts (he mulliganed to 5 an turn 3 me and g2 i kept a hand with DR Confi turn 1 and ive never drawn the second land in 15 looks). First time playing the deck and i loved it! I played aganist : UW taxes (1-1), SnS(2-0), Storm (2-1), Canadian (2-0), Depths ID(but played 2-1), Burn (2-1), BR reanimator (2-1), T depths (0-2).
    I tried out ground seal but i dont think its needed, ita cute tho. The cards im not sure in the main are actually bobs, dazes and bolts.. overall dazes and bolts the most! i know the points of why you have those cards in your list, but i felt like the deck needs to go super fast against SnS, depths, storm ecc or slow against all the delver strategy, ds, grixis control to find a spot to rit buried alive and grind em out and those cards are meh lot of times! Idk i felt the deck was really powerful but still missing something! But hey, idk how to make it better right now, so just writing down my feelings as first time playin it! TITI was amazing, against creature based, depths, sns, br or as an alternative win con its super hard to kill. I played surgicals over tormods because i couldnt find the crypts, overall i liked them, sometimes you need one more spell.
    Since you are playing surgicals this mb dont apply. But isnt Silent Gravestone just better then splashing green for a simular effect? Can also work as a slow crypt against things like manaless dredge.

    I do agree that i dont think its nessecery with that kind of effect though since we got access to a lot of discard.

    I am interesting on how you feel on only 15 lands, obviously you missed lands with confidant once but other then that.. Did you ever reach 4 mana to hardcast Phoenix?

    I will try the deck at my LGS again, and probably many more weeks after, and i cut the dazes this time for a 4th Pyromancer and my 3rd Bolt. Thinking about cutting another land for the 4th Bolt aswell.

  13. #153
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    I've had a decent number of people ask if there's a discord channel for the deck. I was intending to keep info to this thread, at least at the beginning, but there's been enough interest in the deck now that it's probably nice to have somewhere to talk with others in real time too. I'll still post here though.

    Here's the link to join the discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/PM5StrY
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  14. #154

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Hey Guys and Galls,

    I picked up this deck not long ago, but allready really lean towards the Peezy and Bob build. The different angles this deck can position itself in make it hard to sideboard against, i like the combined midrange with a combo strategy a lot. So will be testing the deck some more the coming weeks, in paper and online.

    One idea i have i like to share here is about the Lightning Bolts.

    Why not try Gut Shot in stead of the Bolts?

    The reach of 2 in stead of 3 damage is most of the time enough, 2 x 9 + 2 = 20.

    And the 3/2 of the Phoenix + 2 of the Gutshot is almost always enough to kill the big ones like Endbringer, Gurmag, Pteremander and the likes of them.

    Maybe lifeloss is to much, with Thoughtseize and Bob. I propose therefore a 3/2/3 split of Thought/Bob/Gut Shot for example.

    The ‘free’ spell you have makes Swamp + Dark Rit + Buried also turn one hands. Wich is bonkers, when you don’t have Petal and anothe spell to make that happen.

    I would appreceate your thoughts :-)
    Last edited by sanderanders; 02-14-2019 at 07:16 AM.

  15. #155
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by sanderanders View Post
    Hey Guys and Galls,

    I picked up this deck not long ago, but allready really lean towards the Peezy and Bob build. The different angles this deck can position itself in make it hard to sideboard against, i like the combined midrange with a combo strategy a lot. So will be testing the deck some more the coming weeks, in paper and online.

    One idea i have i like to share here is about the Lightning Bolts.

    Why not try Gut Shot in stead of the Bolts?

    The reach of 2 in stead of 3 damage is most of the time enough, 2 x 9 + 2 = 20.

    And the 3/2 of the Phoenix + 2 of the Gutshot is almost always enough to kill the big ones like Endbringer, Gurmag, Pteremander and the likes of them.

    Maybe lifeloss is to much, with Thoughtseize and Bob. I propose therefore a 3/2/3 split of Thought/Bob/Gut Shot for example.

    The ‘free’ spell you have makes Swamp + Dark Rit + Buried also turn one hands. Wich is bonkers, when you don’t have Petal and anothe spell to make that happen.

    I would appreceate your thoughts :-)
    Hey! I agree, now that I've played vs it too I really struggle to sb vs it from a number of decks, it's certainly one of this decks biggest strengths which is nice. Bob has especially performed.

    Gut Shot deals 1 damage, not 2. So the scenarios you're describing aren't quite accurate. Regardless, it's worth testing, I know some people are already. Some have come back with very negative experiences, some very positive and I've not had the time to try it myself unfortunately. I think the life loss of the Gut Shot isn't going to be too bad, even with 4x TS and Bobs.

    From what I can tell, these are the most obvious pros and cons

    Pros:
    Free spell to combo faster
    Cheaper vs taxing effects, notably Thalia

    Cons:
    Doesn't kill flipped Delver, SfM or Jace among others
    Life loss could be relevant

    Free spell for faster combos I'll a little weary to because for it to be turning on the combo turn one you need to have all of Gut Shot, Dark Ritual and Buried in the opener, which can happen but isn't likely enough to be including cards for it I think.

    Cons of not killing Delver and SfM are pretty bad, Delver is one of the primary reasons to play Bolt imo. But please do let us know how testing with it goes.

    On the topic of bolts, Eric is trying Forked Bolt and has said it's been really strong. He just posted some videos including a deck tech.

    Deck tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJZ5QQ3quY

    Playlist and matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJZ...Sx8LluYZgAu1aV
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  16. #156

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    JUND (?) Phoenix (??)

    Turn 2 Ritual Gamble discard Buried Alive omegalul

    4 Phoenix
    3 Bob
    3 Young Pyro

    4 Buried Alive
    4 Ritual
    4 Gamble

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Thoughtseize

    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Life from the Loam
    1 Raven's Crime / Flame Jab
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    2 Bayou
    2 Badlands
    1 Taiga
    3 Grove
    3 Wasteland
    1 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Bloodstained Mire

    Maybe this improves the Delver mu? PFire/Retrace + Pyro/Phoenix seems funny enough but losing the cantrips probably sucks too much

  17. #157
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Cantrips are really, really damn good. I've seen a lot of people on various platforms cutting them and I don't really understand it.

    I think you'll be at the mercy of topdecks and p fire is all well and good but makes you even more vulnerable to graveyard hate, but give it a spin and see for yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  18. #158
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Hi Guys, need to know what are you thinking about using dominate vs depth decks? Sure, it is 3cc and can be easy discarded, but also can be saved with brainstorm to do some very serious damage when they try to marit lage you. Seems to me that card can be a solution, am i wrong?

  19. #159

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by BeTeP View Post
    Hi Guys, need to know what are you thinking about using dominate vs depth decks? Sure, it is 3cc and can be easy discarded, but also can be saved with brainstorm to do some very serious damage when they try to marit lage you. Seems to me that card can be a solution, am i wrong?

    Isn't Dominate strictly worse than Entrancing Melody?

    EDIT: Dominate is an Instant.

  20. #160
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Yep, instant speed would be the reason to play it.

    But we have our own threats and ways to close out the game already, in my experience so far it's been hard to even get Echoing Truth to land on Marit Lage, it either gets discarded or countered by Crop Rotation for Sejiri Steppe. Not that it doesn't happen, but having a reactive answer for the token isn't always going to be a winning strategy. For something not guaranteed to work, hard to cast and very narrow I don't think it's a great choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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