4 Card Blind

[alphastryk]

I like the point threshold for bans especially as we continue to add more participants and given the amount of different broken things that should exist in any vintage bannathon

[dte]

I really do second the 3.0 threshold as well.
In this season the gobs (both Welder, lackey, and fanatical) did regularly score fine yet are always there, and it is constricting the meta.

Also, if we do not ban enough upfront, it would solve the issue ;)

[Asthereal]

Looks like most here seem interested in a Vintage bannathon, with not too many bans upfront, and a 3.0 season point threshold for bannings.
Anyone strongly opposed to this idea?

Also, deadline has passed, and we're missing entries from FTW and Nasst. I'll give you guys some more time while I do work stuff.

[FTW]

Submitted.

I agree with threshold > 3.0 (keeping 3.0 is fine). Some decks like the Goblin combos have scored 4th-5th multiple times and we keep having to play around them for many rounds. Banning more will help keep the rounds fresh and preserve the spirit of a bannathon.

[PJim]

A 3.0 threshold concerns me with mana sources. If we'd had such a threshold for this tournament, we'd likely be very low on, if not completely without any FE/INV saclands, probably very color limited on storage lands, and otherwise largely stuck with single mana producing lands.

I still think a non-mana banathon might be a good way to go. I don't think having City of Traitors for the whole tournament would've made this less interesting, we'd have seen a lot of 3/4 drops that were very tough to justify as things were, but I think much of the same 1 land stuff would've been viable too. (Arguably even more viable, as it'd have been harder to justify hate against X/1s when playing higher mana cards didn't require so much consolation)

[Asthereal]

A 3.0 threshold concerns me with mana sources. If we'd had such a threshold for this tournament, we'd likely be very low on, if not completely without any FE/INV saclands, probably very color limited on storage lands, and otherwise largely stuck with single mana producing lands.

I still think a non-mana banathon might be a good way to go. I don't think having City of Traitors for the whole tournament would've made this less interesting, we'd have seen a lot of 3/4 drops that were very tough to justify as things were, but I think much of the same 1 land stuff would've been viable too. (Arguably even more viable, as it'd have been harder to justify hate against X/1s when playing higher mana cards didn't require so much consolation)

The basics are exempt from bannings in this season, and we have tons of options from non-basics still. We should be okay.
In fact, for the current season I kind of regret not banning basics as well. I fondly remember getting my fav Thalakos Lowlands banned. Can't do that now...

[dte]

The basics are exempt from bannings in this season, and we have tons of options from non-basics still. We should be okay.
In fact, for the current season I kind of regret not banning basics as well. I fondly remember getting my fav Thalakos Lowlands banned. Can't do that now...

Welder would have been gone for a while too if mountain had been banned.

[Nasst]

Looks like most here seem interested in a Vintage bannathon, with not too many bans upfront, and a 3.0 season point threshold for bannings.
Anyone strongly opposed to this idea?

Also, deadline has passed, and we're missing entries from FTW and Nasst. I'll give you guys some more time while I do work stuff.

So sorry for the delay! Submitted without thinking it through to much. I *really* like the idea of a minimalist banlist with a 3.0 threshold, it seems like the purest form of a bannathon. The only thing I'm slightly worried about is effects for which there are too many redundant cards.

[Asthereal]

And we're complete, so let's go.

DECKS FOR ROUND 13 OF SEASON 11: Legacy Creatures & Lands Bannathon

1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Mountain, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
3. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen borrower, Gilded drake
4. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Thornglint Bridge, Lair of the Hydra
5. PJim: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Steel Hellkite
6. Wrath of Pie: Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, Saltcrusted Steppe, Eldrazi Displacer, Containment Priest
7. alphastryk: Inkmoth Nexus, Dimir Aqueduct, Rishadan Cutpurse, Demon's Disciple
8. silkster: Den of the Bugbear, Molten Slagheap, Fanatical Firebrand, Shriekmaw
9. RoosterCocoa: Fountain of Cho, Saprazzan Cove, Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer, Riders of Gavony
10. maxx!: Scrubland, Mutavault, Giver of Runes, Brain Maggot
11. FTW: Ebon Stronghold, Quicksand, Brain Maggot, Master of the Feast
12. Nasst: Nezumi Shortfang, Mother of Runes, Mutavault, Concealed Courtyard

Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[FTW]

11. FTW: Ebon Stronghold, Quicksand, Brain Maggot, Master of the Feast

I played Master of the Feast over equivalent ground creatures expecting a lot of ground chump blockers (Mother, Firebrand loop, etc).

1. Asthereal (TO): To play around Brain Maggot on Firebrand, you must play T1 Mountain Firebrand (T3 Scavenger). So I just play T2 5/5 flying and race you. WW 6-0
2. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Brain Maggot on Triplicate Titan stops you. OTD your T2 flyer is bigger. WL 3-3
3. dte: Both Petty Theft and Gilded Drake beat my flyer (can't exile both), and Hall means I can't just play chicken with Gilded Drake. LL 0-6
4. Reeplcheep: I almost submitted this too, but it seemed weak to Firebrand. Brain Maggot can always exile Druid or Vizier, then Master is faster. WW 6-0
5. PJim: Brain Maggot takes Hellkite. WW 6-0
6. Wrath of Pie: Brain Maggot takes Displacer then Master races. WW 6-0

7. alphastryk: OTP I play T2 Brain Maggot taking Disciple and T3 Master of the Feast. When you play Cutpurse, I can just sacrifice Quicksand.
OTD I play T2 Brain Maggot taking Cutpurse. If you play T3 Disciple, we both lose Disciple and Maggot and you get back Cutpurse. Then I play Master, you play Cutpurse (I sacrifice Quicksand), and Master wins.
If you don't play T3 Disciple, I still play T3 Master and Disciple/Inkmoth can't stop me. WW 6-0

8. silkster: Brain Maggot takes Shriekmaw, you kill it with Firebrand to get back Shriekmaw, then I play Master. Shriekmaw can't kill black and Quicksand can kill either X/2 so I race. WW 6-0
9. RoosterCocoa: Brain Maggot takes Gwafa, then Master of Feast flies over the 3/3. WW 6-0
10. maxx!: We both noticed Brain Maggot was still legal! OTP I can Maggot your Maggot, or just race with T2 Master. OTD you Brain Maggot my Master, then Giver protects your attacker from Quicksand. WL 3-3

12. Nasst: OTP Brain Maggot takes Nezumi, then Master flies over to win.
OTD you play T2 Nezumi, so I play T2 Master. You activate Nezumi to make me discard Brain Maggot & flip. From then on Stabwhiskers is a big clock, but Mutavault dies to Quicksand. Race is close.
Mother / tapped land
Nezumi / Master
discard / Master attacks [15/17]
Attack for 6, Mutavault dies / Attack for 5 [10/10]
Attack for 4 / Attack for 5 [5/3]
Attack for 4 [5/-1]
WL 3-3

51 points (17 wins, 5 loss)

[Nasst]

My list: Nezumi Shortfang, Mother of Runes, Mutavault, Concealed Courtyard

1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Mountain, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
6-0, mom guarantees that I get to flip shortfang. The clock's too fast.

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
I was hoping for the Noxious Gearhulk vertion, 0-6

3. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen borrower, Gilded drake
OTD you trade drake for mom, then, if you bounce drake on your t3, I get to discard it with shortfant. 6-0

4. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Thornglint Bridge, Lair of the Hydra
Lair of the Hydra doesn't trample, 6-0

5. PJim: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Steel Hellkite
3-3

6. Wrath of Pie: Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, Saltcrusted Steppe, Eldrazi Displacer, Containment Priest
I'm too fast! 6-0

7. alphastryk: Inkmoth Nexus, Dimir Aqueduct, Rishadan Cutpurse, Demon's Disciple
I can sacrifice mom and activate shortfang, 6-0

8. silkster: Den of the Bugbear, Molten Slagheap, Fanatical Firebrand, Shriekmaw
You can't play shriekmaw t2 to kill mom, so you have to firebrand her. Afterwards, shriekmaw can't answer shortfang because it's black. 6-0

9. RoosterCocoa: Fountain of Cho, Saprazzan Cove, Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer, Riders of Gavony
I'm just too fast, 6-0

10. maxx!: Scrubland, Mutavault, Giver of Runes, Brain Maggot
The mirror! OTD I lose because of giver's colorless protection. 3-3

11. FTW: Ebon Stronghold, Quicksand, Brain Maggot, Master of the Feast
3-3


51! While the deck seemed powerful enough, it's clear to me now that maxx!'s version is just superior. I actually considered that exact list, but felt that the dorks might not be powerful enough in certain spots, in hindsight, that's not true. Also worth noting: both our lists draw vs lackey OTD! I

[GoblinSmashmaster]

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Goblin H8ers"

1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Mountain, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
Goblin ping :( 0-6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
That's me on Goblins!

3. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen borrower, Gilded drake
Drake 3-3

4. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Thornglint Bridge, Lair of the Hydra
Goblin smash! 6-0

5. PJim: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Steel Hellkite
Goblin smash! 6-0

6. Wrath of Pie: Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, Saltcrusted Steppe, Eldrazi Displacer, Containment Priest
Goblin smash! 6-0

7. alphastryk: Inkmoth Nexus, Dimir Aqueduct, Rishadan Cutpurse, Demon's Disciple
Goblin smash! 6-0

8. silkster: Den of the Bugbear, Molten Slagheap, Fanatical Firebrand, Shriekmaw
Goblin ping :( 0-6

9. RoosterCocoa: Fountain of Cho, Saprazzan Cove, Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer, Riders of Gavony
Goblin smash! 6-0

10. maxx!: Scrubland, Mutavault, Giver of Runes, Brain Maggot
Maggot 3-3

11. FTW: Ebon Stronghold, Quicksand, Brain Maggot, Master of the Feast
Maggot 3-3

12. Nasst: Nezumi Shortfang, Mother of Runes, Mutavault, Concealed Courtyard
Goblin smash! 6-0

Total: 45 points

[FTW]

My list: Nezumi Shortfang, Mother of Runes, Mutavault, Concealed Courtyard

51! While the deck seemed powerful enough, it's clear to me now that maxx!'s version is just superior. I actually considered that exact list, but felt that the dorks might not be powerful enough in certain spots, in hindsight, that's not true. Also worth noting: both our lists draw vs lackey OTD! I

Nice deck.

Quicksand was my tech to draw Lackey OTD too, but it didn't show up. Giver of Runes doesn't draw Lackey because Giver can't protect itself, so your Mother of Runes was the better choice for that.

I also didn't want to risk submitting a bunch of weenies (I've lost horribly in the past with 1/1 + Maggot + manland), so I shamelessly took your tech from last round with a bigger flyer and removal-land instead.

Total: 45 points

This race for 5th is surprisingly competitive!

[dte]

1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Mountain, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
6-0. Stealers keepers.
6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
6-0. Stealers keepers. Or bouncers, depends of what you do. If you resolve on your turn T2 Titan, I steal it and I do not have a creature in my gy. If you wait for my EoT, I bounce it.
12

3. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen borrower, Gilded drake
Me. I first thought I had a fantastic idea of a deck, but upon submitting it (previsualizing my message to Asthereal), I realised I misstook "any target" and "target player or planeswalker"... :/
So I stole WoP's idea :)

4. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Thornglint Bridge, Lair of the Hydra
6-0. Not doing much with this druid, but well...
18

5. PJim: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Steel Hellkite
6-0. Thanks for the dragon!
24

6. Wrath of Pie: Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, Saltcrusted Steppe, Eldrazi Displacer, Containment Priest
6-0 I guess? That is a bit unfortunate, but the turn you play the displacer, you cannot flicker it, whatever the counters you have (you only get W or G). So I steal it if you ever play it.
30

7. alphastryk: Inkmoth Nexus, Dimir Aqueduct, Rishadan Cutpurse, Demon's Disciple
6-0, You cannot play disciple before cutpurse, cutpurse does not affect me, faerie and nexus can trade before the 11th poison, and I don't care much about disciple.
36

8. silkster: Den of the Bugbear, Molten Slagheap, Fanatical Firebrand, Shriekmaw
6-0. Not much that can do me much here. My manland is bigger, I can steal shriekmaw.
42

9. RoosterCocoa: Fountain of Cho, Saprazzan Cove, Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer, Riders of Gavony
6-0. Gwafa Hazid! I was trying to figure out how to use it, but had timing trouble to make it work, I only thought of bounceland & mothers. If you say drakon, you cannot pass my giant. If you say giant, I take riders, bounce drake and take Gwafa.
48

10. maxx!: Scrubland, Mutavault, Giver of Runes, Brain Maggot
0-6. The series was too good to be true (some of the above is also probably wrong I guess). My answers match yours poorly
48

11. FTW: Ebon Stronghold, Quicksand, Brain Maggot, Master of the Feast
6-0. Both my creatures are good here.
54

12. Nasst: Nezumi Shortfang, Mother of Runes, Mutavault, Concealed Courtyard
0-6. I lose to that.
54

Pretty good run, it especially started good until the last few ones on discard!
But I might have gotten some MUs wrong and be overenthusiastic.

[dte]

Nice deck.

Quicksand was my tech to draw Lackey OTD too, but it didn't show up. Giver of Runes doesn't draw Lackey because Giver can't protect itself, so your Mother of Runes was the better choice for that.

giver also 4-1 lackey, because it is a 1/2 ;)
So your three decks did.

[FTW]

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
6-0. Stealers keepers. Or bouncers, depends of what you do. If you resolve on your turn T2 Titan, I steal it and I do not have a creature in my gy. If you wait for my EoT, I bounce it.
12

3. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen borrower, Gilded drake
Me. I first thought I had a fantastic idea of a deck, but upon submitting it (previsualizing my message to Asthereal), I realised I misstook "any target" and "target player or planeswalker"... :/
So I stole WoP's idea :)

I think GoblinSmashmaster might be right here. He can just attack 20 times with Menace Insolent Neonate, leaving up Welder untapped to respond to tricks. The manland cannot block or race, so you have to act first. Tapping out at sorcery speed leaves you open to "Weld Titan in response, untap with Welder". Your only non-sorcery speed proactive play is to flash in Borrower, but then you lose Petty Theft and are weak to EOT Weld Titan & untap with Welder.

On your play you can T2 Gilded Drake taking Welder before it untaps, T3 bounce Drake. That line should win. On your draw Welder can activate in response.

[FTW]

giver also 4-1 lackey, because it is a 1/2 ;)
So your three decks did.

Giver can't protect itself from Sidisi's Faithful, then there is no white mana to replay it. Mother can protect itself (Lackey still goes unblocked), then holds off both X/1s.
Edit: Mother loses to Sidisi OTD in the Mangara decks with no T2 play.

If that was missed in previous rounds, then Goblinsmashmaster should have more points.

[dte]

I think GoblinSmashmaster might be right here. He can just attack 20 times with Menace Insolent Neonate, leaving up Welder untapped to respond to tricks. The manland cannot block or race, so you have to act first. Tapping out at sorcery speed leaves you open to "Weld Titan in response, untap with Welder". Your only non-sorcery speed proactive play is to flash in Borrower, but then you lose Petty Theft and are weak to EOT Weld Titan & untap with Welder.

On your play you can T2 Gilded Drake taking Welder before it untaps, T3 bounce Drake. That line should win. On your draw Welder can activate in response.

Once I have 3 counters, I can play drake targeting welder, If in response neonate is sacced and a titan appear, I bounce it?
From then a 3/1 flyer or a 7/7 walker should manage to win vs a 1/1 gob.

Giver can't protect itself from Sidisi's Faithful, then there is no white mana to replay it.

Sisdi cannot bounce both settler and giver:
T1 lackey / mut
T2 lackey attack, settler kill mut (otherwise next turn it is maggot takes sidisi) / giver
T3 sidisi can bounce giver, but then a W would be available to replay it.

As long as you have a relevant T2, mother or giver both do 4/1 vs lackey/settler.

[FTW]

Sisdi cannot bounce both settler and giver:
T1 lackey / mut
T2 lackey attack, settler kill mut (otherwise next turn it is maggot takes sidisi) / giver
T3 sidisi can bounce giver, but then a W would be available to replay it.

In that line 1/2 Giver of Runes trades with 2/1 Settler (Giver cannot protect itself) and then Lackey wins. Mother can hold off everything so it draws.

You're right about your matchup v Goblins though. I keep missing the storage land lines where you remove extra counters to represent 2 plays at once.

[dte]

In that line 1/2 Giver of Runes trades with 2/1 Settler (Giver cannot protect itself) and then Lackey wins. Mother can hold off everything so it draws.

You're right about your matchup v Goblins though. I keep missing the storage land lines where you remove extra counters to represent 2 plays at once.

Settler is a 1/1 ;)

So Lackey/ settler would not have performed decently but not too well this round (0-6 vs the fanatic decks and you, 1-4 vs the moms, 3-3 vs welder or me)