I hope to post decks in a few hours. My day has been a bit of a mess.Originally Posted by Nasst
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Okay finally I'm here. Got lost in a MauLer vid on YouTube. Two hours gone. Could be worse.
DECKS FOR ROUND 1 OF SEASON 12: Vintage Creatureless Bannathon
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
The mirror is a tie, since the first one to put a black lotus on the stack loses!
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 6-0
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue 2-2
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will 0-6
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens 6-0
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue 2-2
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials 6-0
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer 0-6
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage 0-6
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation 6-0
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will 0-6
for a total of 28! Should have played FoW. Oh well, Force of Negation is still legal!
I submitted the same deck as Nasst, and agree with the results Nasst posted.
maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
Our hate doesn't do anything, but my extremely slow win condition is slower than yours. 0-6
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
Leyline Chalice is really awkward against Leyline Lotus. No matter who acts first, you can get both your Lotuses on the stack before Chalice resolves. You win faster than me. 0-6
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
See above. 0-6
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will
You're faster than me. 0-6
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens
Finally Chalice wins one. 6-0
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
See above. 0-6
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials
Chalice stops your Lotus and strands Gideon. 3ball doesn't stop me. 6-0
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
You can either cast your Lotus before Chalice resolves, or hold Leyline and FoW Chalice. Mu Yanling's tokens will kill me easily. And here I thought I was playing around FoW. 0-6
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage
FoW Chalice and then the Shrine kills me. 0-6
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
This is me :]
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will
FoW Chalice and then Mu Yanling kills me. 0-6
0+0+0+0+6+0+6+0+0+0 = 12
I forgot that this was coming up until ~3 hours before the deadline. Turns out that Leyline Chalice is only good against Lotus decks that did not also play Leyline, which was 2 decks. I tried to play something that would beat discard, slow Lotus decks, and FoW. Turns out I didn't beat FoW after all, and my wincon was too slow to race anything that I didn't entirely disable. At least I still have a whole season to do better!
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
I can Force of Will your first play, so I always get the Honden before you get Scalding Tongs. However, the life loss from Force of Will means you still win when I'm OTD. This was on my list of decks, but I decided it was too bad vs Force of Will decks. WL
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
Force of Will means you never get to play Statue. WW
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
Force of Will means you never get to play Statue. WW
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will
We both have Force of Will, so we either both get our threats or neither of us does. If we both get our threats, you can make 1/1s on my end step, so I lose. LL
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens
No matter what, you get too many goblins for me to deal with. LL
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
Force of Will means you never get to play Statue. WW
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials
I have to counter Trinisphere, and Gideon shuts down my Honden completely. LL
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
Our Force of Wills cancel, and Mu Yanling beats my Honden. LL
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
I Force your Chalice and Honden is faster than Hammer of Bogardan. WW
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will
Our Force of Wills cancel, and Mu Yanling beats my Honden. LL
9W 0D 11L = 27
I put in Snapback for threats that apparently were all in my head. It would have just been better to play Mindbreak Trap, which I was considering to stop storm. This is better than I expected though, since I forgot that Mu Yanling existed until I saw everyone else's decks, and was convinced that missing such a great threat meant I was doomed.
Last edited by RoosterCocoa; 04-01-2022 at 03:10 PM.
Force costs a life, which matters. With me OTP, I open with Trini. If you don't FoW it, you can't do anything anymore. If you do, you go down a life, which makes Tongs the faster clock even if you're the first to cast Honden.
I went for this deck, because I felt it would do well against most FoW decks, which I expected to dominate, because turn zero decks just fold to it.
Perhaps I should have just joined the FoW parade, instead of being all meta and going for something this underpowered.
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4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will
Boring delver deck, best free interaction + best cheap threat. Sea-gate over other pitch cards to better play around tabernacle + strip mine or Trinisphere
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
I can ignore Trinisphere but then I lose to bridge. LL 0-6
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
FoW. WW 6-0
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
FoW. WW 6-0
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens
I thought I could keep you to 4 goblins but you can always get 8, which I can’t beat. LL 0-6
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
FoW WW 6-0
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials
I can ignore Trinisphere and Gideon is quite bad against 2 threats. WW 6-0
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
I thought tabernacle would be more played which is why I went for the “weaker” threat... WL 3-3? Edit: 0-6 per below
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage
Disagreement, I can always make things on your EOT or in response to removal. WW 6-0
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
I’m too fast. WW 6-0
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will
Same as FTW. Could you confirm 3-3? I didn’t do the detailed math.
Edit :0-6 per below
14 W 6 L for 42/60?
12 W 8 L for 36/60
Last edited by Reeplcheep; 04-04-2022 at 08:25 AM.
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
I can't beat Bridge, but Gideon stops Tongs (I can always pay for my Lotus through 3ball with Worksop). DD
2-2
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
I should have stuck to my first instinct on Leyline of Anticipation and gone with this deck. LL
0-6
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
I should have stuck to my first instinct on Leyline of Anticipation and gone with this deck. LL
0-6
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will
Whether you FoW 3ball or just use Restoration as a 3rd mana to play Foundry, you're able to get it done and generate an endless stream of Servos. Gideon isn't able to beat that. LL
0-6
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens
OTP 3ball wins, OTD 10 goblins win. WL
3-3
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
I should have stuck to my first instinct on Leyline of Anticipation and gone with this deck. LL
0-6
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials
Me
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
Gideon beats Mu Yanling, but if Mu comes first (when you are OTP only, Leyline can't speed up the first loyalty ability) it leaves a 4/4 behind which kills Gideon on the swing back. WL
3-3
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage
OTP, you have to FoW 3ball and then Gideon beats Honden. W
OTD you land Honden first but 3ball makes sure Gideon lands eventually. W
6-0
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
Instant Chalice turns off my Lotus and therefore Gideon. 3ball doesn't help against slow Hammer. LL
0-6
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will
OTP you have to FoW 3ball, and then I can resolve Gideon, which Beats Mu Yanling when it comes first. W
OTD you can Amnesia to force a draw, but can you win? I think you do win if you just jam Mu Yanling, like my match against FTW. L
3-3
Total: 17 points. Ouch.
And a new season begins! much less people on FoW than I thought though :/
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
3-3 trini or bridge make me lose OTD.
3
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
0-6. Ignoring FoW was less costly than I imagined.
3
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
0-6
3
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will
6-0. FoW!
9
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens
me, on storm to beat FoW, which I thought was the card to beat as in a lotus format, it is not really card disadvantage.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue
0-6. No goblins?? Leaving me alone with the buggers, if we had teamed up on the deck, we would have getting it banned ;)
9
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials
3-3 trini
12
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
6-0, FoW!
18
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback, Honden of Infinite Rage
6-0, FoW!
24
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation
0-6, leyline Chalice
24
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will
4-1. OTD you make me forget the gobs.
28
28, so not getting the gobs banned. Much less FoW, and much more spheres than I thought. I thought leyline sphere was not great, drawing the mirror + losing to FoW. They were actually not that bad.
Asthereal's scores for round y u no play fow?
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs <-me
2. Nasst: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue LL
3. Phasmoid: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue LL
4. Reeplcheep: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Sea Gate Restoration, Force of Will WW
5. dte: Black lotus, Black lotus, Regrowth, Empty the warrens WL
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, God-Pharaoh's Statue LL
7. alphastryk: Mishra’s Workshop, Black Lotus, Trinisphere, Gideon of the Trials DD
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer DD
EDIT: You drop Leyline and make Lotus before Trini lands. From there you have 3 mana to pay for Trini and Force my Tongs for two draws.
9. RoosterCocoa: Black Lotus, Force of Will, Snapback,Honden of Infinite Rage WL
FoW costs a life, so OTP I play Trini, you have to Force it and from there Tongs is the faster wincon despite you casting Honden first. OTD you make Honden and race.
10. maxx!: Mercadian Bazaar, Hammer of Bogardan, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of Anticipation WW
11. silkster: Black Lotus, Induced Amnesia, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Force of Will DD
You can't cast both the wincon and the Amnesia. Trini would stop FoW, so you can't prevent me from making Bridge and win, unless you force through Amnesia for the draws.
Total: 22 points
Last edited by Asthereal; 04-01-2022 at 05:50 AM.
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Strip Mine started this season already banned. (See Asthereal's post on the previous page.)
8. FTW: Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
I figured this round would be a Rock-Paper-Scissors between Turn 0 decks, FoW, and anti-FoW. Compared to other FoW decks, I hoped that Mu would race slower wincons and that Leyline would help against anti-FoW tech.
Some disagreements. Leyline doesn't just pitch to FoW. It's also there to play under spheres and dodge discard.
T0 Mu isn't worth it if the other cards beat Mu (Bridge, Gideon), but I can still play T0 Black Lotus under Trinisphere, then have 3 mana for FoW (pitch Mu) on the wincon.
1. Asthereal (TO): Can't beat Bridge, so I reveal Leyline for T0 Lotus. Lotus makes 3 to pay for FoW on Scalding Tongs, so you can't win either. DD 2-2
2. Nasst: FoW Statue. WW 6-0
3. Phasmoid: FoW Statue. WW 6-0
4. Reeplcheep: Forces trade. I can always make at least 2 4/4s before you can kill Mu. That should be enough to race Retrofitter. Math below. WW 6-0
5. dte: OTP I lead with Mu, FoW an Empty copy so you only get 8 goblins, then make a 4/4 before you attack. Still too slow to stabilize. LL 0-6
6. GoblinSmashmaster: FoW Statue. WW 6-0
7. alphastryk: OTP I play Mu. You must play Shop + Trini and pass (otherwise I Force Lotus and win). That buys me a free turn, so I let Trini resolve. I make a 4/4. You can play Lotus for 3 and cast Gideon, using +1 to protect Gideon from the 4/4. +2 Mu (3 counters) and hold. If you attack with Gideon, you can kill Mu, but I kill Gideon on the back swing. If you stall with +1, I make a 2nd 4/4 and race.
OTD I can't win (if I play T0 Mu, you play T1 Gideon and can attack before I get a 4/4). Instead I reveal Leyline and play T0 Lotus. Then I can pay 3 for FoW on Gideon to draw.
WD 4-1
9. RoosterCocoa: Forces trade. Honden can't hit planeswalkers, so my 4/4s race. WW 6-0
10. maxx!: I Force Chalice, then 4/4s race Hammer. WW 6-0
11. silkster: Mirror match! Forces trade. -2/-0 and "loses flying" is very relevant in the mirror. See below. WL 3-3.
FTW vs silkster
T1 Mu +2 (4 counters) / Mu +2 (4 counters)
T2 4/4 (1 counter) / 4/4 (1 counter)
T3 +2 (3 counters). My 4/4 flies over your non-flying 2/4 and kills your Mu / Yours is still 2/4 and can't kill my Mu at 3 counters
T4 +2 (3 counters), keep 4/4 to defend against your 2/4
I defend Mu and make more 4/4s to win
If you instead stall with +2ing
T1 Mu +2 (4 counters) / Mu +2 (4 counters)
T2 4/4 (1 counter) / +2 (6 counters)
T3 +2 (3 counters), attack with 2/4 [4 counters] / +2 (6 counters) (If you make a 4/4 here, I do the same thing as above and kill your Mu)
T4 +2 (5 counters), attack with 2/4 [4 counters] / +2 (6 counters)
T5 Make 2nd 4/4 (2 counters), attack with 2/4 [4 counters]
Now no matter what you do, you can't defend your Mu against 2 4/4s
Whoever goes first wins. Mu beats Mu.
FTW vs Reeplcheep OTD
T1 Retrofitter Foundry / Mu +1 (4 counters)
T2 1 Servo / 4/4 flying (1 counter)
T3 2nd Servo, no profitable attacks / +2 (3 counters), stay back to defend
T4 No profitable attacks (0/1 & 1/1 vs 4/4) / Attack for 4 flying
If you don't block [R=15], I suicide Mu for a 2nd 4/4 flying.
If you make a Thopter to block, you have just 1 Servo left (can't kill Mu), so I +2 Mu to make it 0/1. The next turn, I have a 2nd 4/4 flying.
That should be enough to win.
I don't see a line where Retrofitter can catch up vs 2 4/4 flyers. I have you on a 2 turn clock. It costs you 2 activations just to chump 1 of 2 attackers, and you lose another activation if you try to salvage the blocker into a 4/4.
If you don't go wide with Servos early, I'm not forced to suicide Mu. I can stall longer with -2/-0s and make even more 4/4s.
45 points (14 wins, 3 draw, 3 loss)
Last edited by FTW; 04-01-2022 at 01:29 AM.
In case my long post gets skimmed...
T0 Leyline + Lotus.
Let Trini resolve.
If you play Tongs, I can pay 3 to FoW
My enchantment stares at your artifacts, none able to do anything.
DD 2-2
I can do the same line against alphastryk to draw vs 3sphere when I can't win.
Didn't skim it. I saw the relevant bit. And you're right. I missed the idea of instant speed Lotus to FoW the wincon through Trini. That's a neat line.
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Yeah, I definitely missed the "instant lotus to pay 3ball tax for FoW to force the draw" line. Updating the spreadsheet
Yep, I forgot about the 1 life since it's so often irrelevant.
Yeah, I missed that foundry can do things on my end step.
God-Pharaoh smash!
Total: 28 points
Preliminary standings for round 1:
1. silkster: 49 - 4,9
2. FTW: 45 - 4,5
3. Reeplcheep: 36 - 3,6
4. Nasst: 28 - 2,8
4. Phasmoid: 28 - 2,8
4. dte: 28 - 2,8
4. GoblinSmashmaster: 28 - 2,8
8. RoosterCocoa: 27 - 2,7
9. Asthereal (TO): 22 - 2,2
10. alphastryk: 15 - 1,5
11. maxx!: 12 - 1,2
That's just 3 guys at 3 or more SP, so we get these bannings:
Black Lotus
City of Traitors
Force of Will
Induced Amnesia
Leyline of Anticipation
Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer
Retrofitter Foundry
Sea Gate Restoration
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ROUND 2 OF SEASON 12: VINTAGE CREATURELESS BANNATHON has started.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 2, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 6th of April at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Mountain, Plains, Forest, Shivan Gorge.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S12R02 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deckbuilding!
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