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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #5761
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Shamelessly steal FTW's deck from last round - lets see how that works out

    1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
    Fury takes care of one of your 1/1s while Fiend takes care of the other. WW

    6-0

    2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
    me

    3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights
    Your long game beats me. LL

    0-6

    4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite
    Fiend takes Grist, Fury kills Hex Parasite but then it keeps coming back to force the draw. DD

    2-2

    5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
    Too many threats - I can Fury on Dryads and Fiend another, but I can't beat the 1/2 you have left with my 1/1 - you can always attack first and win the race because if I ever block I lose. LL

    0-6

    6. dte: Sheltered valley, Phantasmal image, True-name nemesis, Saprazzan skerry
    Fiend takes your TNN, Fury kills your Image(Fiend) but I can't race Sheltered Valley. DD

    2-2

    7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
    Turn 2 LD is blank. Fiend takes Reaver and Fury kills Plotter. WW

    6-0

    8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
    The mirror! No way for either of us to make progress. DD

    2-2

    9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
    OTP I can take Gargadon with Fiend but I can't effectively interact with Blizzard-Herder without giving you a 2/2 that I can't beat. This is a really nice deck design. LL

    0-6

    10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
    Fury takes care of one of your 1/1s while Fiend takes care of the other. WW

    6-0

    11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
    The last person I expected to beat to be honest, but turn 2 LD is blank. Fiend takes Reaver and Fury kills Plotter. WW

    6-0

    Total: 30 points by my math

  2. #5762

  3. #5763

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver

    1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
    OTP I swap our lands but can't play Plague Reaver, so we draw. OTD you get your combo. DL

    2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
    You take Plague Reaver with the Fiend and Fury my Plotter. LL

    3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights
    I take your land and win with Plague Reaver, which is too big to be killed with Fury. WW

    4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite
    You get Hex Parasite, but I can always play Plotter before you remove both counters from Skerry so we draw. DD

    5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
    OTP I get Plague Reaver, but can't attack since you can trade your Dryads for it. You can't attack since Plague Reaver can eat your creatures. OTD you play Dockhand and tap one of my lands forever. DD

    6. dte: Sheltered valley, Phantasmal image, True-name nemesis, Saprazzan skerry
    OTP I take your Skerry and give you Tendo Ice Bridge after I use the counter, so you can't play anything and we draw since you gain life from Sheltered Valley. OTD you get True-name which is too much for me. DL

    8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
    You take Plague Reaver with the Fiend and Fury my Plotter. LL

    9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
    OTP I play Plague Reaver and win before Gargadon comes into play. OTD you destroy one of my lands and I can't play anything. WL

    10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
    OTP I swap our lands but can't play Plague Reaver, so we draw. OTD you get your combo. DL

    11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
    Whoever gets Plotter first wins. WL

    4W 7D 9L = 19

    I remembered this at the last minute so I copied a deck and hoped for the best. Turns out Tendo Ice Bridge is a lot worse than Undiscovered Paradise.

  4. #5764
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa View Post
    7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver

    1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
    OTP I swap our lands but can't play Plague Reaver, so we draw. OTD you get your combo. DL

    I remembered this at the last minute so I copied a deck and hoped for the best. Turns out Tendo Ice Bridge is a lot worse than Undiscovered Paradise.
    It is indeed. I forgot that both you and FTW can't cast Reaver after swapping lands. TNN instead of Reaver would have gotten you both a ton more points as well, I reckon.
    Edited my results.


    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Happy new year!
    And I'll start 2022 by disagreeing with both previous posters about our MUs:

    Unfortunately for me, you could weld titan at the end of my turn, attack me with it, and hold welder to exchange back titan if I cast image. So it would be 6-0 for you instead. Image does what you think, but welder is better than :)

    1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
    0-6 as per above, even if I hope Asthereal is right and I am wrong.
    You're right of course. Using Welder EOT is very techy, and indeed allows me to respond to Image by Weldering again, making a land and a row of 3/3s, after which I can yet again Welder to make the 9/9 again.
    My deck is much better than I thought it was.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  5. #5765

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    Shamelessly steal FTW's deck from last round - lets see how that works out
    Same.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
    OTP I can take Gargadon with Fiend but I can't effectively interact with Blizzard-Herder without giving you a 2/2 that I can't beat. This is a really nice deck design. LL

    0-6
    I think you (I)((we)) can force a draw here OTP. T1 evoke Fury, target itself with all the damage, then sac Fury to Tower with the trigger on the stack. Then you can Fiend Gargadon and have two 1/1s against the Akki. You can’t attack into it, but now silk can’t race. DL?

    On second thought you can just attack with the Goblin token before saccing it, getting you a point ahead in the race. That should also force a draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
    Too many threats - I can Fury on Dryads and Fiend another, but I can't beat the 1/2 you have left with my 1/1 - you can always attack first and win the race because if I ever block I lose. LL

    0-6
    Same here. OTP you can attack with the Goblin token before you sac, so the 1/2 has to stay back forever. DL

    Agree with the rest of your results. 32 for both of us?

  6. #5766
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by maxx! View Post
    I think you (I)((we)) can force a draw here OTP. T1 evoke Fury, target itself with all the damage, then sac Fury to Tower with the trigger on the stack. Then you can Fiend Gargadon and have two 1/1s against the Akki. You can’t attack into it, but now silk can’t race. DL?

    On second thought you can just attack with the Goblin token before saccing it, getting you a point ahead in the race. That should also force a draw.

    Same here. OTP you can attack with the Goblin token before you sac, so the 1/2 has to stay back forever. DL

    Agree with the rest of your results. 32 for both of us?
    Agree. In scenarios like this you should be able to force draws and avoid losses, since you have turn 1 haste damage from the 1/1 token.

    You have 2 options for turn 1 sacrifice fodder:
    1) 1/1 token after it attacks
    2) evoke Fury pre-combat (at opponent's turn 1 play or at itself), then attack with 1/1 token

    The first line leaves Fury in hand to remove an opponent's threat. The second line leaves you two 1/1s. Both lines let the token deal damage on turn 1, so opponent should never be able to race with a non-haste 1/x (Fury can kill their turn 1 play).

  7. #5767
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite me

    11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
    Disagreement, you can’t play your second 3 drop with only 1 depletion counter, which I can force without having to play out my rot farm. DD 2-2
    I missed the line where you don't play your land.

    F vs R OTD
    T1 Hex Parasite / tapped Skerry
    T2 don't play Rot-Farm to protect it / Plotter trades Rainbow Vale for Stronghold (in response, you tap Stronghold to remove 1 depletion counter)
    Now you can still never cast Grist (Rot Farm returns Rainbow Vale to my hand) but I can't cast Plague Reaver.

    DD agreed

  8. #5768
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Both maxx! and FTW are better at playing my deck than I am, will update the spreadsheet.

  9. #5769

  10. #5770

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Two disagreements.

    Pretty sure I'm right vs FTW. Plague Reaver can't win until turn 6, and Heavyweights can land on turn 5 with Rainbow Vale. If Plotter is played it eats Fury and Reaver never lands. 2-2

    Asthereal vs GSM is an obvious win for GSM OTP, as Reaver can kill Welder. So Asthereal OTP:

    Furnace, Welder | Furnace, Welder
    Discard, Recur Titan | Discard, Recur Gearhulk (Welder) 20-21
    20-12 | Pass
    20-3, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Titan) 20-12
    20-9 | Pass
    20-6, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Flyer) 20-9

    Now Asthereal can't attack and Gearhulk can eventually recur twice more to kill the remaining tokens and win. 6-0 GSM. In retrospect there's a better line turning a token into a Great Furnace with Welder.

  11. #5771
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    Pretty sure I'm right vs FTW. Plague Reaver can't win until turn 6, and Heavyweights can land on turn 5 with Rainbow Vale. If Plotter is played it eats Fury and Reaver never lands. 2-2
    Oh, right. I miscounted and thought T2 Reaver killed on T5. It needs 4 attacks.
    So then I can't race you and am forced to play for the draw by stealing your land. DD 2-2

  12. #5772

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    Two disagreements.

    ...

    Asthereal vs GSM is an obvious win for GSM OTP, as Reaver can kill Welder. So Asthereal OTP:

    Furnace, Welder | Furnace, Welder
    Discard, Recur Titan | Discard, Recur Gearhulk (Welder) 20-21
    20-12 | Pass
    20-3, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Titan) 20-12
    20-9 | Pass
    20-6, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Flyer) 20-9

    Now Asthereal can't attack and Gearhulk can eventually recur twice more to kill the remaining tokens and win. 6-0 GSM. In retrospect there's a better line turning a token into a Great Furnace with Welder.
    Damn, that would mean that welder is not banned?

  13. #5773
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    Two disagreements.

    Pretty sure I'm right vs FTW. Plague Reaver can't win until turn 6, and Heavyweights can land on turn 5 with Rainbow Vale. If Plotter is played it eats Fury and Reaver never lands. 2-2

    Asthereal vs GSM is an obvious win for GSM OTP, as Reaver can kill Welder. So Asthereal OTP:

    Furnace, Welder | Furnace, Welder
    Discard, Recur Titan | Discard, Recur Gearhulk (Welder) 20-21
    20-12 | Pass
    20-3, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Titan) 20-12
    20-9 | Pass
    20-6, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Flyer) 20-9

    Now Asthereal can't attack and Gearhulk can eventually recur twice more to kill the remaining tokens and win. 6-0 GSM. In retrospect there's a better line turning a token into a Great Furnace with Welder.
    Yup, I missed the life gain. I had calculated the 3/3 flyer would win it there, but it's too slow against 12 life.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  14. #5774
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Assuming scores are all correct now, these are the standings for round 8:
    1. silkster: 41 - 4,1
    2. dte: 36 - 3,6
    3. alphastryk: 32 - 3,2
    3. maxx!: 32 - 3,2
    5. Asthereal (TO): 29 - 2,9
    5. GoblinSmashmaster: 29 - 2,9
    7. PJim: 26 - 2,6
    8. Wrath of Pie: 22 - 2,2
    9. Reeplcheep: 20 - 2
    10. RoosterCocoa: 19 - 1,9
    11. FTW: 14 - 1,4

    Which leads to these bannings:
    Akki Blizzard-Herder
    Chancellor of the Forge
    Dunes of the Dead
    Fury
    Greater Gargadon
    Mesmeric Fiend
    Phantasmal image
    Phyrexian Tower
    Saprazzan skerry
    Sheltered valley
    True-name nemesis
    (I'm locking these in now, as I am about to open the next round. Any changes in scores after now won't affect these bannings anymore.)

    And the season now looks as follows:
    1. PJim: 31,5
    2. dte: 30,3
    3. silkster: 28,8
    4. Asthereal (TO): 23
    5. RoosterCocoa: 21,7
    6. Wrath of Pie: 20,1
    7. Reeplcheep: 20
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: 19,7
    9. FTW: 19
    10. maxx!: 18,5
    11. alphastryk: 18,2
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  15. #5775
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    ROUND 9 OF SEASON 11: LEGACY CREATURES & LANDS BANNATHON has started.

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 9, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 12th of January at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Quicksand, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
    So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S11R098 in the topic.
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Happy deckbuilding!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  16. #5776

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I think silkster's results are correct, except vs WoP:

    WoP OTP:
    Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
    20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Garg7
    Dockhand, trade Dryad for both dudes, 20-14 | Garg6
    WoP races with 4 damage per turn.

    Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
    20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6
    Chump with 2/2 and sac, Garg5, 20-14 | Garg4
    WoP races with 6 damage per turn.

    silk OTP:
    Mountain, Garg10 | Land, Dryads
    Garg9 Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6 | 17-20
    Garg5, 17-18 | 14-18
    Garg4 | 2/2 chumps then sacs, Garg3
    Gargadon will land with enough life left to attack safely.

    So I make it 3-3. Doesn't change bannings at all.

  17. #5777
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    I think silkster's results are correct, except vs WoP:

    WoP OTP:
    Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
    20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Garg7
    Dockhand, trade Dryad for both dudes, 20-14 | Garg6
    WoP races with 4 damage per turn.

    Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
    20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6
    Chump with 2/2 and sac, Garg5, 20-14 | Garg4
    WoP races with 6 damage per turn.

    silk OTP:
    Mountain, Garg10 | Land, Dryads
    Garg9 Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6 | 17-20
    Garg5, 17-18 | 14-18
    Garg4 | 2/2 chumps then sacs, Garg3
    Gargadon will land with enough life left to attack safely.

    So I make it 3-3. Doesn't change bannings at all.
    Looks like a solid analysis. I've changed these scores in the doc, but will leave them marked in case someone finds another line and wants to change them.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  18. #5778

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Hello again. Busy week with school starting up. I didn't have that much faith in my deck because it lost to basically everything in my gauntlet, but also everything else in my gauntlet lost to Fury. Adding in the face that Fury likely still has room for innovation, I figured there would be lots of it. Let's have a look now. Disagreements against both Plotter decks.

    Me: silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon

    1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan WL
    2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
    3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights WW
    4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite WW
    Oh, Hex Parasite! I almost played that this round!
    I didn't realize that you could recur Grist until I started skimming everyone else's posts. Very cool!

    5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads WL
    6. dte: Sheltered Valley, Phantasmal image, True-Name Nemesis, Saprazzan Skerry WL
    I thought this was WD, but I see now why my True-Name Nemesis decks looked so weak: no Sheltered Valley to let me store up life and get back on the offensive.

    7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver WD
    Same math as against FTW, except that you don't give me a land to sacrifice, so you get 1 more hit in, but I hold the fort at 2 life.

    This was on my shortlist too. I'm glad to have been an inspiration and happy to have you confirm that I wasn't missing something that was obviously more powerful than Plague Reaver. I didn't like that this version couldn't trade away the Tendo before playing the Reaver unless you can trade for a black source, which seemed very unlikely.

    8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
    10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WL

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
    9. silkster: OTP I play T2 Plague Reaver, which kills before Gargadon comes down. OTD you play T2 Akki and blow up my land. WL 3-3
    I think this is WD. On the draw:
    Skerry; Mountain, Suspend-10.
    Reaver, passing the Vale; S-9, Dunes, Herder.
    Reaver attacks into Herder, and I sacrifice Mountain, Dunes, Vale, and Herder (S-5, make a 2/2); S-4.
    Reaver attacks into 2/2 (sacrificed, S-3); S-2.
    Hit for 6; S-1.
    Hit for 6; Gargadon. But it takes 3 hits to win and I die in 2, so we stare.
    PS: Deck got stolen and made top 3. FeelBadMan

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon / 0-6, Great find on Blizzard Herder.
    Thanks! I've been trying to make Blizzard-Herder work since the Peasant Banathon.

  19. #5779
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    Hello again. Busy week with school starting up. I didn't have that much faith in my deck because it lost to basically everything in my gauntlet, but also everything else in my gauntlet lost to Fury. Adding in the face that Fury likely still has room for innovation, I figured there would be lots of it. Let's have a look now. Disagreements against both Plotter decks.

    Me: silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon

    1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan WL
    2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
    3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights WW
    4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite WW
    Oh, Hex Parasite! I almost played that this round!
    I didn't realize that you could recur Grist until I started skimming everyone else's posts. Very cool!

    5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads WL
    6. dte: Sheltered Valley, Phantasmal image, True-Name Nemesis, Saprazzan Skerry WL
    I thought this was WD, but I see now why my True-Name Nemesis decks looked so weak: no Sheltered Valley to let me store up life and get back on the offensive.

    7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver WD
    Same math as against FTW, except that you don't give me a land to sacrifice, so you get 1 more hit in, but I hold the fort at 2 life.

    This was on my shortlist too. I'm glad to have been an inspiration and happy to have you confirm that I wasn't missing something that was obviously more powerful than Plague Reaver. I didn't like that this version couldn't trade away the Tendo before playing the Reaver unless you can trade for a black source, which seemed very unlikely.

    8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
    10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WL


    I think this is WD. On the draw:
    Skerry; Mountain, Suspend-10.
    Reaver, passing the Vale; S-9, Dunes, Herder.
    Reaver attacks into Herder, and I sacrifice Mountain, Dunes, Vale, and Herder (S-5, make a 2/2); S-4.
    Reaver attacks into 2/2 (sacrificed, S-3); S-2.
    Hit for 6; S-1.
    Hit for 6; Gargadon. But it takes 3 hits to win and I die in 2, so we stare.
    PS: Deck got stolen and made top 3. FeelBadMan


    Thanks! I've been trying to make Blizzard-Herder work since the Peasant Banathon.
    Don't forget to send a deck for next round.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  20. #5780

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Don't forget to send a deck for next round.
    Thanks. I'm running a little late. I just have a zoom meeting and then I plan to cobble something together over lunch.

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