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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #4801
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Every single deck makes tokens, that's the round rule.
    Yup just realized this. That's how much of a genius I am.

    EDIT: So yeah, I now have 1 whole point.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  2. #4802

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Thanks guys. When in doubt, I play t1 sphere of Resistance like always.

    1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
    3 2/2s lose to 2/2, 3/3, 5/3, and 6/4 even with a 6 damage headstart. WW 6-0

    2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
    You canít cast liege. WW 6-0

    3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
    No 4 drops allowed.. WW 6-0
    4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
    artifacts.... LL 0-6

    5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
    I explained why I went to double a tangle to beat double burglar rat WW 6-0

    6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
    Me

    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
    PseudoMirror WL 3-3

    8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
    Artifacts LL 0-6

    9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    Artifacts LL 0-6

    10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
    Pseudo mirror WL 3-3

    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    Built to beat FOD, but not dreadnought :( LL 0-6

    12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
    Unmask my shamans is good, but FoD my shaman doesnít do much. WL 3-3

    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
    More dreadnoughts LL 0-6

    14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
    Unmask beats me. You can FOD 2 shamans and clumping with a dryad lets you win the race LL 0-6

    15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
    WL 3-3

    16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
    Targeted discard instead of untargeted. WL 3-3

    Expected people to play FOD or burglar rat instead of dreadnought, not both :(. Unfortunately couldnít find a rg sphere creature.

    13W 0D 17L for 39/90

  3. #4803

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold

    1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek WW - A meek token effort, but you are still the best TO.
    2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus WL - I should get there on the play before you can overwhelm me with your token army.
    4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile WW
    5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage LL
    6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle , Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem LL - Let me guess, you sent the reply to yourself.
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan LL
    8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought LL
    9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought WL - Hero goes wide quite fast and outraces Dreadnought on the play unless you use Force of Despair/Unmask, which lets me safely cast Muse.
    10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance LL
    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought WL
    12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair WW
    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker WL
    14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask DL
    15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven LL
    16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze LL

    10w1d = 31 points

    Dreadnought was obvious, but it turns out the best way to beat Dreadnought was not Windborn Muse.

  4. #4804

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Phasmoid View Post

    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan WL 3-3
    when I am OTD:
    You go off on your T1, and attack me for 12 with two Doomskar Titans. To avoid losing on your T2, I have to cast a creature on my T1 and block at least one of the Titans. Such 1 or 2 blocks can't kill either Titan, so me blocking with both of my creatures would just result in me having given up one of my creature cards for nothing. Thus, I block with exactly one creature, going to 4 life. I can't kill either Titan before your T3 combat damage, so I have to cast another creature to block both of your Titans. That taps my land, and I can attack for 1 if I want to. Even without me attacking, I can't kill either Titan on your T3, so I go to at most one creature vs your two Titans. On my turn T3, I can't make another creature or kill you or one of your creatures, so I lose on your T4..
    The priests donít die, you get one shot.

  5. #4805

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    That's not true, it'd be much better if it did. Permanents only exist on the battlefield, cards in any other zone are not permanents, they're permanent cards.

    110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield. A permanent remains on the battlefield indefinitely. A card or token becomes a permanent as it enters the battlefield and it stops being a permanent as itís moved to another zone by an effect or rule.

    https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Permanent
    I stand corrected, my bad. Strange wording though. Why use own instead of control then?
    It was meant as anti discard/exile tech.

  6. #4806
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought

    I saw too many possible T1 decks so played Force.

    For the land I was choosing between Dryad Arbor, Crystal Vein (beat Sphere) and Karakas (minor value vs Legendaries). My first choice was Dryad Arbor. Then for some reason I thought Arbor would die to Force anyway, so I dismissed it. I missed Tylert's line of just Unmasking the Force first... I also thought T2 Dreadnought would be too slow against some decks. Sphere + 2 Dreadnoughts seemed like a thing, so I went for Crystal Vein instead. Arbor would have been much better!


    1. Asthereal (TO): Ouch, sorry your own round rules bit you here. 3x Memnite would have been better than Chancellor... WW 6-0

    2. jhhdk: OTP Unmask on Stylus wins. OTD you play Tower + Stylus, I play Dreadnought, and if you play Arbor I Force them to slow you down. WW 6-0

    3. Wrath of Pie: OTP I play T1 Dreadnought, you play tapped land, I attack for 12, I Force your play and attack for 12 again. OTD you play tapped land, I play Dreadnought, you go to 18 playing double Hero. (Edit: Apparenty 1 Hero attack represents 20 damage so I have to Force this). I Force and attack you to 6. You go to 4 casting Muse. I can pay 1 tax but not both, and they fly over me. WL 3-3

    4. alphastryk: Nice tech vs Dreadnoughts. If I Unmask Path, 2 Dreadnoughts beat 1. If I Unmask/Force a Dreadnought, you Path mine and the other wins. LL 0-6

    5. Phasmoid: OTP I play T1 Dreadnought and Unmask your Expert. OTD you can play Expert first, but with party size 1 I can just discard Force & Unmask then play Dreadnought. WW 6-0

    6. Reeplcheep: 12/12s are big. WW 6-0

    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Force of Despair stops your turn 1 kill. I thought you would be smashing with Chancellor of the Forge goblins, but that's only 16 damage and this is better! WW 6-0

    8. dte: Came prepared for this. If you play Dreadnought first I can Force for free and then play Dreadnought. If you play Sphere first, I have a land to pay the Tax to Force/Unmask 1 and then sacrifice Crystal to play mine. Our remaining Dreadnoughts stare. DD 2-2

    9. PJim: Mirror. OTP I Unmask your Force and play Dreadnought, which stares at yours (or I could Unmask your Dreadnought and lose mine to Force). OTD you do the same. DD 2-2

    10. RoosterCocoa: OTP I Unmask Tinder Wall and make Dreadnought, racing Elf. OTD Defiance takes out my hand. WL 3-3

    12. maxx!: OTP I Unmask your Force and play Dreadnought. OTD you Unmask my Dreadnought and Force can't stop Nether Spirit. WL 3-3

    13. Serguei: OTP I play Dreadnought. You go to 18 and play 1 Dreadnought (to not lose to Force), and I Force it. Dreadnought attacks you to 6. You play 2nd Dreadnought going to 4. I pass. If you attack, I take the damage and attack back to kill you (tramples through Revoker). You can play Revoker but you cannot ever attack with anything so we draw.
    OTD you play Dreadnought, I Force and play Dreadnought, you play 2nd Dreadnought (16 life). I pass. You play Revoker (14). Now you have tempo on me and can just barely survive a Dreadnought attack by 2 life, so if you attack I have to trade and then lose to Revoker. DL 1-4

    14. Tylert: OTP I Unmask Force and play Dreadnought. You play Arbor (summoning sick). I attack for 12. You play Dreadnought. I pass. If you attack with Dreadnought I take it and swing back to kill you. So we stare.
    OTD you Unmask my Force and play Arbor. I play Dreadnought. You play Dreadnought. This time I'm forced to trade if you attack, then Arbors win. DL 1-4

    15. mattamort: OTP I Unmask Force and play Dreadnought to win. OTD you can play T1 Tidehollow. 2 ETB triggers (token & exile card). If you create the token first, I can Force to kill both and draw, so you stack the exile on top. If I Force now, 1 dies but the 2nd lives and takes Dreadnought from my hand. If I let the ability resolve, you take Force, then Tidehollow #2 takes Dreadnought. WL 3-3

    16. silkster: OTP I Unmask Fiend and make Dreadnought. OTD you play T1 Fiend. Same problem as mattamort. You can stack the triggers so even if I Force somewhere I can only kill 1, then you exile Dreadnought and kill me with the other. WL 3-3

    51 points (15 wins, 6 draws)

    Not playing Dryad Arbor cost me a lot more points than the 1 draw I got from Crystal Vein!

    The other decks I had were:
    Total discard: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Priest of Gix, Sadistic Hypnotist/other discard creature
    Goblin smash: Pendelhaven, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Chancellor of the Forge (16 haste tokens but not a T1 kill like Doomskar Titan!)
    Sphere: dte's deck
    Discard: Crystal Vein, Chancellor of the Tangle, Elvish Spirit Guide, Thought-Knot Seer

    I thought with all the broken possible things to do on T1, I needed to play Paper (Force of Despair) but the meta played Scissors instead (2x Dreadnought).

  7. #4807
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Serguei View Post
    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker

    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    Both OTD and OTP we will trade our DN and you will handle my Other PDN with either unmask or Force. Revoker will kill you at the end. I have just not to play both Dn in one turn
    WW 6 pts -> 49 pts
    This is WD for you.

    When I go first, you can't force me to trade.
    F: Dreadnought
    S: 1 Dreadnought only. I Force it [S=18]

    F: Attack for 12 [S=6]
    S: 2nd Dreadnought. [S=4]

    Now I can't attack. But you can't attack either. If your Dreadnought attacks, I take 12 and kill you. So you must keep it on defense to draw.

  8. #4808

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhdk View Post
    I stand corrected, my bad. Strange wording though. Why use own instead of control then?
    It was meant as anti discard/exile tech.
    Owners and controllers are by default the same, but the controller can change while the owner cannot.

    (More specifically, putting a permanent owned by an opponent into your library is not good game design, so that's the real reason.)

  9. #4809

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhdk View Post
    I stand corrected, my bad. Strange wording though. Why use own instead of control then?
    It was meant as anti discard/exile tech.
    Opponent has a Tabernacle of The Pendrell vale double sleeved.

    You are playing an unsleeved monoU Reality Acid stompy deck with tel-Jilad stylus in play. You just were eating a bag of Doritos and coke. You cast Annex Targeting the tabernacle, and then put the tabby on the bottom of your library with stylus. You must unsleeve the tabby to not have marked cards, and then you crack a Prismatic Vista. You then riffle shuffle your deck at least 7 times and ask your opponent to cut the deck. She justifiably storms out to key your car.

  10. #4810

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Opponent has a Tabernacle of The Pendrell vale double sleeved.

    You are playing an unsleeved monoU Reality Acid stompy deck with tel-Jihad stylus in play. You just were eating a bag of Doritos and coke. You cast Annex Targeting the tabernacle, and then put the tabby on the bottom of your library with stylus. You must unsleeve the tabby to not have marked cards, and then you crack a Prismatic Vista. You then riffle shuffle your deck at least 7 times and ask your opponent to cut the deck. She justifiably storms out to key your car.
    I can't decide what is the best part of this.

  11. #4811

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance

    1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek You can't kill me fast enough and can't kill both of my elves. WW
    2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus OTP I make you discard your hand, OTD you can either play Stylus or Arbor on T1 before I discard your hand, either way you cannot stop my elves. WW
    3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold I discard your hand before you can play a creature. WW
    4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat Dreadnought. WL
    5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage OTP I discard your hand, OTD You make me discard Tinder Wall and Collective Defiance and Glistener Elf can't beat Shadow Guildmage. WL
    6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle , Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't play anything. WL
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan OTP I discard your hand, OTD I die turn 1. WL
    8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
    9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
    12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair OTP I lose if I discard your hand, so I play Glistener Elf. You have to Force of Despair it because otherwise I will kill you too fast for you to play Nether Spirit. However, I then play Tinder Wall next turn and can block your Nether Spirits forever, so we draw. OTD if you Unmask my Tinder Wall, I get you to 9 poison counters before you can play Nether Spirit, and then neither of us can attack. If you Unmask my Glistener Elf, I play Tinder Wall and block your Nether Spirits forever, so we draw again. DD
    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
    14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask OTP I discard your hand, OTD you Unmask my Tinder Wall and then I can't beat dreadnought. WL
    15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven OTP I discard your hand, OTD you Sculler my Glistener Elf and my Tinder Wall. WL
    16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze OTP I discard your hand, OTD you take my Glistener Elf and my Tinder Wall with Mesmeric Fiend. WL

    17W 2D 11L = 53
    lol I completely missed Phyrexian Dreadnought. I was aiming for a multiple discard deck that dodged Force of Despair, which worked as intended. However, I would have just done better by playing Dreadnought instead of Glistener Elf. I would have gotten WD against alphastryk, WW against Phasmoid, WD against maxx!, and the same against everyone else for 6 more points.

  12. #4812
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa View Post
    lol I completely missed Phyrexian Dreadnought. I was aiming for a multiple discard deck that dodged Force of Despair, which worked as intended. However, I would have just done better by playing Dreadnought instead of Glistener Elf. I would have gotten WD against alphastryk, WW against Phasmoid, WD against maxx!, and the same against everyone else for 6 more points.
    I was hoping someone would play Torpor Orb to hose the round rule. Hilariously it enables Dreadnought either way.

  13. #4813
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhdk View Post
    Why use own instead of control then?
    It removes permanents that your opponent stole from you with Control Magic and effects like that.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  14. #4814

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair

    1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
    OTD Force is live and kills your team. OTP I Unmask my own Nether Spirit, get hit for 6, then I get a 2/2 and a 3/3. I can hold back my Nether token to block and attack with my real copy as many times as it takes to win. 6-0

    2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
    I don't think I can win this one. OTP I can Unmask Stylus, but I can't beat Liege. If I Unmask Liege (or kill it with Force whenever it drops), then I lose to infinite Dryad Arbors. If I try to Force your Arbors when you first play them, you respond with Stylus. Maybe I'm missing a line but this looks like 0-6

    3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
    I can Unmask and/or Force one of your guys but not both. Windborn Muse races me in the air, and Hero kills me even faster. 0-6

    4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
    Path to Exile! 2 Dreadnoughts! 0-6

    5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
    Welcome! I think OTP I can Unmask Shadow Guildmage and play my land. You either make me discard Nether Spirit or I play it the slow way, and my 2/2s beat your 1/2s. OTD if you play Shadow Guildmage then I can FoD and end up the same as OTP. If you lead with Acquisitions Expert instead, then I just discard Nether Spirit and my land to the two triggers, and Unmask your Guildmage on my turn. 6-0

    6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
    OTP I Unmask BTE and you can't do anything. OTD I can Force your BTEs, but not your Golems, and the Golems kill me before I can make enough mana to cast Nether. 3-3

    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
    OTP I Unmask Tinder Wall. OTD if you make the whole team then I force, and if you take a slower line like Tinder Wall, pass, then I just force EOT. 6-0

    8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
    I can't beat 2 Dreadnoughts even without the Sphere. 0-6

    9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    OTP I Unmask Dreadnought. OTD you Unmask my Force and then stick Dreadnought. 3-3

    10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
    This is tricky. I actually can't attack through 2 Tinder Walls. OTD you can Collective Defiance me, but I'm not sure you want to. I'd get my Spirits before you get your Elves. If you just play Tinder Wall, pass, then to avoid a draw I would have to FoD. That lets you play your Elves, and then I have to play Nether the slow way. OTD I'm barely fast enough to have blockers in time (9 poison counters), but I can never attack. OTP I can take the same line and get my Nether Spirits into play at 6 poison counters, but I don't think that helps. If I attack with both, I lose the race. If I attack with just the token, a 2/3 Elf eats it for free and I'm just in a worse spot for no reason. If I attack with the real Spirit, you can just take it and start attacking back (pump whichever Elf my token blocks). So I have to stay back. There are a few other lines (like OTP I can Unmask Elf), but I think they all lead to draws. 2-2

    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    OTP Unmask gets Dreadnought. OTD you can Unmask my FoD and then stick a 12/12. 3-3

    12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
    This is me :]

    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
    I can't beat 2 Dreadnoughts. 0-6

    14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
    OTP I can Unmask Dreadnought and still have enough time to slow play Nether Spirit. OTD I lose. 3-3

    15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
    OTP I can Unmask your Cantor, and FoD doesn't stop my Nether Spirits. OTD you can stack the Sculler triggers so that you only have 1 in play when the first trigger resolves, and then you either take Force, or I respond to the trigger with Force and you take Nether, then the second Sculler takes Nether. 3-3

    16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
    OTP I Unmask ESG and then you just have two 1/1s and lose to slow Nether beats. OTD your 2 Fiends can always get my Nether Spirit no matter how I sequence. 3-3

    6+0+0+0+6+3+6+0+3+2+3+0+3+3+3 = 38

    I massively misread this meta. Only 1 T1-discard-your-hand deck, no Vengevine, lots of grindy slow decks, no Dark Rituals, and a bunch of Dreadnoughts. My deck looks bad and silly. I wish I had played any of the other decks I had in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I thought with all the broken possible things to do on T1, I needed to play Paper (Force of Despair) but the meta played Scissors instead (2x Dreadnought).
    Yep. I didn't even consider Dreadnought because it seemed too weak. It doesn't kill you on turn 1, it doesn't discard your hand on turn 1, it doesn't make infinite tokens on turn 1, and it's weak to the decks that do. Oh well! Bad read for me

  15. #4815

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    TitanSmashmaster Results for Round "Double Trouble"

    1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
    Titan smash! 6-0

    2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
    Titan smash! 6-0

    3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
    Titan smash! 6-0

    4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
    Titan smash, then Dread 3-3

    5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
    Titan smash, then discard 3-3

    6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
    Titan smash, then golem 3-3

    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
    That's me with nongoblins!

    8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
    Resistance is futile 3-3

    9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    You use the force :( 0-6

    10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
    Titan smash, then you defy 3-3

    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    You use the force :( 0-6

    12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
    You use the force :( 0-6

    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
    Titan smash, then dread 3-3

    14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
    You use the force :( 0-6

    15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
    You use the force :( 0-6

    16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
    Titan smash, then discard 3-3

    Total: 39 points

  16. #4816
    Member

    Join Date

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    3,154

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @PJim: Although we submitted almost identical decks and ended up with about the same total, we disagree on a lot of results.


    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought // 3-3, Crystal Vein might win you something more vs dte, otherwise we must be identical.
    How do we WL here?
    Whoever goes first Unmasks the Force and plays Dreadnought, then Dreadnoughts trade.
    Or we could Unmask each others' Dreadnoughts.

    Looks like DD 2-2


    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold // 6-0, FoD the Muse and race the Hero.
    Hero of Bladehold attacks for 20 (4 1/1 tokens + 2x battle cry: 4/4 + 4/4 + 3/1 + 3/1 + 3/1 + 3/1 = 20).

    OTD if Wrath plays T2 Hero, we have to Force or it races Dreadnought. Then Muse stops attacks and flies over to win.
    WL 3-3


    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker // 0-6, Dreadnoughts + FoD trade, Revoker remains.
    OTP we can avoid the trade to draw.
    T1 Dreadnought / 1 Dreadnought. Dies to Force of Despair [S=18]
    T2 Attack to 6 life / 2nd Dreadnought [S=4]
    T3 Pass / Revoker [S=2]

    If S attacks with Revokers, Dreadnought eats them.
    If S attacks with Dreadnought, take 12 and kill with Dreadnought.
    S can't do anything, so we stare and draw.

    OTD we miss the attack and cannot avoid the trade.
    DL 1-4


    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask // 0-6, Any line resolves with Arbors winning.
    OTP we can force a draw here too.
    T1 Unmask the Force. Dreadnought / Dryad Arbor x 2 (summoning sick)
    T2 Attack for 12 / Dreadnought [T=8]
    T3 Pass

    If T attacks with Dryads, Dreadnought eats them.
    If T attacks with Dreadnought, take 12 and swing back for lethal.
    T has no winning line so cannot take any action here, and we can stare for the draw.

    OTD we miss the attack and cannot avoid the trade.
    DL 1-4

  17. #4817
    Member

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    On an unrelated note, I made a minor change in the google sheet lookup formula so that if the lookup fails it defaults to a score of 0 for that round, which means we don't have to manually put 0s into the Table anymore when someone doesn't participate in a given round. (There's a pretty cool function called IFERROR that lets you choose a default value)
    Thanks for adding that! It makes the copy+paste that much easier when players miss rounds.

  18. #4818

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa View Post
    2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus OTP I make you discard your hand, OTD you can either play Stylus or Arbor on T1 before I discard your hand, either way you cannot stop my elves. WW
    Yeah learning, that Stylus is not really discard protection has been a bitter pill to swallow.
    Amazing that I had not picked up on that in previous seasons where the card has seen play.
    It never occurred to me that wording was to ensure opponents cards didn't end up in my library.
    Now I need to find another way to add resilience for next season too. Bummer.

  19. #4819

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhdk View Post
    Yeah learning, that Stylus is not really discard protection has been a bitter pill to swallow.
    Amazing that I had not picked up on that in previous seasons where the card has seen play.
    It never occurred to me that wording was to ensure opponents cards didn't end up in my library.
    Now I need to find another way to add resilience for next season too. Bummer.
    Otherwise Stylus would be crazy powerful in 4CB.
    In legacy, I played it before SDT was banned in an artificer's intuition deck as a one-of with avarice totem, it was not crazy but fun.

    Conjurer's bauble might be what you're looking for. Single use, but protect a bit vs discard/counters/LD. I've used it, it works vs combo.

  20. #4820

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I fixed some issues with the "if I still have 20 life:" section.






    OTP jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
    vs
    OTD me: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage





    You have to start with a land, since otherwise I win in the same way as when I'm OTP. I play T1 Acquisitions Expert. You can't play Liege or both lands on T1, so you will have 2 cards to discard. If you discard Dryad Arbor, then you can't play a threat or interaction, in which case my 1/2s win. That means you canít keep both Liege and Tower, so you wonít be able to play Liege, so Liege might as well be 1 of your 2 discards. If Stylus is your other, then your 1/1s lose to my 1/2s, so instead Tower must be your other. In particular, you must have played Dryad Arbor on T1.


    If you do nothing, then I

    play Shadow Guildmage and let it stop being summoning-sick and keep my land and 1 Shadow Guildmage open to ping in response to you using Stylus

    .


    That could deal 1 damage to me, but shuts down Stylus, and then my 3 other creatures beat your 2 creatures without me taking any other damage. You attacking T2 just gives up 1 or 2 creatures for nothing, so you play Stylus T2. On my T2, I play Shadow Guildmage and attack with both of my 1/2s. Since one of your creatures was tapped to cast Stylus, you canít kill either of mine and take at least 1 damage. You presumably block with your creature card and use Stylus before combat damage, but I also handle the cases in which you donít. On your T3, I single-block if you attack, and you presumably use Stylus, but I also handle the cases in which you donít uses Stylus. Starting on my T3, as long as the one Shadow Guildmage is not my only available blocker, I keep my land and one Shadow Guildmage open to ping in response to you using Stylus on your creature _card_. Stylus on itself or a token doesnít help you, so during that time, the most Stylus can do is make me take 1 damage to kill 1 of your creatures.




    If you used Stylus at most once before my T3, then:

    You have at most 3 creatures. If you have 3, then 2 were summoning-sick on T3. In particular, I took at most 2 damage from your attacks. I start attacking with one Shadow Guildmage while my 1/2s stay on defense. Each counterattack costs you 2 creatures, so you canít do more than 1 damage to me with counterattacks until one of my 1/2s attacks. Thus, you must block, which is a trade. Starting my next turn after that, one of my 1/2s attacks while the other stays on defense. Each counterattack costs you 1 creature, so you canít do more than 1 damage to me with counterattacks until my last 1/2 attacks. Thus, you must block, which is no worse for me than a trade. Starting my next turn after that, my last 1/2 attacks while my Shadow Guildmage would block if you attack. Shadow Guildmage otherwise stays open as it did while I had other available blockers, so you still donít have a window for Stylus to do more than making me take 1 damage to kill 1 of your creatures. That means I take no more than 2+1+1+1 = 5 damage, so my last 1/2 wins.



    If you used Stylus both opportunities before my T3, then:


    2 of your 3 T3 creatures were summoning-sick, so you attacked with at most one. If you attacked then I blocked. In particular, I took no damage, so I am 1 life ahead. If you attacked and I blocked, then that was a trade of 1 Shadow Guildmage for 1 of your creatures, creating the same situation as if that Shadow Guildmage attacked and you blocked and then did nothing on your next turn. Thus, I suppose you didnít attack. I start attacking on T3 with one Shadow Guildmage, while my 1/2s stay on defense. Each counterattack costs you 2 creatures, so you canít do more than 2 damage to me with counterattacks until one of my 1/2s attacks, and doing any damage to me before then costs you more than 1 creature. Thus, you must block, which is a trade. Starting my next turn after that, one of my 1/2s attacks while the other stays on defense. Each counterattack costs you 1 creature, so you canít do more than 3 damage to me with counterattacks until my other 1/2 attacks, and doing any damage to me before then costs you at least 1 creature. Thus, you must block, so we trade again. Starting my next turn after that, my last 1/2 attacks, at which point things depend on my life total / your remaining creatures . I canít have taken more than 1+2+3 = 6 damage, and if I have taken any damage, then you have at most 1 creature left. Thus, I still have 20 life or you have at most 1 creature left.

    if you have at most 1 creature left:
    If you attack, then Shadow Guildmage blocks, but otherwise Shadow Guildmage stays open like while I had not yet attacked with my last 1/2. Shadow Guildmage blocking does not give you a window for Stylus, so the most you can do on offense is make me take 1 damage. Thus, my 1/2 wins with me having at least 13 life left.

    if I still have 20 life:
    If my 1/2 reduces you to 1 life while I still have more than 1 life, then Shadow Guildmage pings you, winning for me. If you double-attack or attack when you have only 1 creature, then Shadow Guildmage blocks, blocking a _card_ if possible, and pings whichever attacker it didnít block if youíre double-attacking. Other than those two sentences, as long as your Dryad Arbor _card_ is on the battlefield, Shadow Guildmage stays open like while it wasnít my only available blocker. You double-attacking is the only way Stylus might do more than make me tap Shadow Guildmage and take 1 damage to kill 1 of your creatures. However, using Stylus then must be _before_ combat damage. In that case, Shadow Guildmage survives, the unblocked attacker dies, I only take 1 damage, and my land and Shadow Guildmage untap before you can re-play your creature. I wouldíve taken 1 damage anyway from a single-attack, so using Stylus that way doesnít help you. If you double-attack and donít use Stylus, then Shadow Guildmage kills both of your creatures with me still only taking the 1 damage I wouldíve from a single-attack, after which my 1/2 wins. I start at 20 life, you start at at most 19 life (due to my T2 attack), and I attack before you, so in a single-attack race, I am always ahead in life. If my 1/2 reduces you to 1 life, then Shadow Guildmage pings you for a win. Thus, you must use Stylus or block while you are at at-least 2 life and I am at at-least 3 life. If you single-block or use Stylus before you block, then I kill 1 of your creatures without losing either of mine. In such cases, I can take 1 damage from Shadow Guildmage and 1 damage from an attack due to Shadow Guildmage being tapped, but those donít kill me, so Shadow Guildmage holds you off while my 1/2 wins. Thus, your only remaining chance is double-blocking without first using Stylus. At that point, if your Dryad Arbor _card_ is still on the battlefield, then I choose the damage assignment order so that the card is ahead of the token. If you use Stylus, then both of your creatures die while both of mine live, which is a win for me. If you donít, then my 1/2 trades with your Dryad Arbor _card_, after which Shadow Guildmage pings your token. That is also a win for me.

    (My edit only changed this postís first sentence and the ďif I still have 20 life:Ē section.)
    Last edited by Phasmoid; 06-11-2021 at 11:18 PM. Reason: fixed minor errors in proof

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  1. alphastryk