GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "T2 combo"
1. Asthereal (TO): Azorius Chancery, Faerie Conclave, Energy Field, Detention Sphere
Curses foiled again! 0-6
2. dte: Irrigation ditch, Sandwurm convergence, Show and tell, Sheltered valley
Cruel stare 2-2
3. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Darkslick Shores, Lingering Souls, Windfall
Discard 3-3
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Sandstone Needle, Island, Show and Tell, Cruel Reality
That's me, almost smashing with Dragons but Cruel instead
5. RoosterCocoa: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Remote Farm, Show and Tell, Form of the Dragon
Cursed 6-0
6. jfb1337: Forbidding Watchtower, The Wandering Emperor, Prismatic Ending, Saltcrusted Steppe
Cursed 6-0
7. silkster: Ebon Stronghold, Vault of the Archangel, Agonizing Remorse, Black Market Connections
Discard 3-3
8. Phasmoid: Mercadian Bazaar, Mercadian Bazaar, Red Sun's Zenith, Crackle with Power
Cursed 6-0
9. FTW: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Darksteel Citadel, Convincing Mirage, The Blackstaff of Waterdeep
LD 3-3
10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal
Discard 3-3
11. Reeplcheep: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge
Cursed 6-0
Total: 38 points
This matchup is complicated. I wrote code for it, and my code reports that what you're trying doesn't win for you,
since I wait at least 1 more turn before I cast RSZ. I've so far barely looked into its output, but I imagine the idea is that I
only tap 1 land each time I cast RSZ, so the other still gets a storage counter. This would let me cast 2 times each 4 turns.
My code is not yet accounting for your ability to get Lifelink, but even so, if you win both
then either there's a bug in my code or the win is harder than the line you gave.
Asthereal's scores for round how did I forget about Show and Tell and still manage to play incredible hate for it?!
1. Asthereal (TO): Azorius Chancery, Faerie Conclave, Energy Field, Detention Sphere <-me
2. dte: Irrigation ditch, Sandwurm convergence, Show and tell, Sheltered valley WW
3. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Darkslick Shores, Lingering Souls, Windfall LL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Sandstone Needle, Island, Show and Tell, Cruel Reality WW
5. RoosterCocoa: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Remote Farm, Show and Tell, Form of the Dragon WW
6. jfb1337: Forbidding Watchtower, The Wandering Emperor, Prismatic Ending, Saltcrusted Steppe LL
Ending takes out Energy Field, Sphere takes out the walker but it still nets you a 2/2, which I can then trade for Conclave, but then I die to the Watchtower.
7. silkster: Ebon Stronghold, Vault of the Archangel, Agonizing Remorse, Black Market Connections WW
Remorse takes Energy Field. EDIT: I missed the idea of racing BMC as it costs life. If I allow you to make two 3/2 guys and then Sphere both of them, I am able to race. Math below.
8. Phasmoid: Mercadian Bazaar, Mercadian Bazaar, Red Sun's Zenith, Crackle with Power WW
Energy Field stops your deck and the sorcery speed of your spells means Conclave is safe and gets the win.
9. FTW: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Darksteel Citadel, Convincing Mirage, The Blackstaff of Waterdeep DD
Your land hate goes on the Chancery, stopping Sphere and Conclave. Energy Field stops your threat and we draw.
10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal LL
11. Reeplcheep: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge WW
Total: 38 points
Against silk:
s: Strongold
A: Conclave
s: Vault, Remorse the Energy Field
A: Chancery, bounce Conclave
s: BMC, precombat make 3/2, s=17
A: Conclave
s: Make 3/2, s=14, attack, A=17
A: Sphere, exile both guys
s: Make 3/2, s=11
A: Attack, s=9
s: Make 3/2, s=8, attack, A=14
A: Attack, s=6
s: a>Make 3/2, s=3, attack, A=8 / A attacks, s=1 and then you die to BMC
b> Make treasure, s=5, attack, A=8 / A attacks, s=3 / Make treasure, s=2, attack, A=2 / A attacks, s dies.
PS. There is a thing: Gatherer tells us BMC is not playable in any format, which could be extended to our little competition of chaos, as all cards are banned that "were never printed as playables in competitive Magic".
But that's a bit vague, and I feel like we could make an exception and allow this card anyway. Anyone opposed to this?
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I think it could be allowed for this time only (it is very shitty for Silk otherwise), but kept as banned for the future?
I thought that it was a good threat that I had missed, but I only looked for cards legal in vintage.
So, it would make:
Bazaar tapped; Stronghold.
B1, BT; Vault, BMC.
B2, B1; 3/2, treasure, Remorse on Crackle (20-15).
B3, B2; 2 mercenaries, 1 attacks (17-12).
B0, B3, kill a mercenary; 2 mercenaries, 1 attacks (14-9).
B1, B0, kill a mercenary; 2 mercenaries, 1 attacks (11-6).
B2, B1, 3 mercenaries, 2 attack (5-3)
==> Silk wins on 1 life?
That seems like a mistake in gatherer. The set CLB ought to be legal in commander/legacy/vintage; as it's been released for a while now. Indeed cards from the set are playable on mtgo.
I don't know what normally determines set legality, so I can't comment on the "should" part, but Scryfall
lists Black Market Connections as legal in those 3 formats
and
is what I use (rather than gatherer) to make my decks
, so I am in favor of allowing BMC this time even if this is not actually a mistake in gatherer.
My code is reporting that I should prioritize storing mana, to threaten a large RSZ to the face.
However, I now suspect that I will lose to Vault + the Treasures giving lifelink.
B3, B2; 2 mercenaries, 1 attacks (17-12).
B4, B3
If silkster creates another Mercenary, then I build yet again, to B5,B4 . In that case, silkster deals only (2+3)*3 = 15
damage before losing to 3 from creating that Mercenary + 1 from creating a Treasure + 8 from RSZ to the face .
Thus silkster doesn't, so
; 1 treasure, 2 attack (11-11).
B(5,0 or 1,4), kill a Mercenary
Two attacks would still not be for lethal, so if silkster creates a Mercenary now, then I build to cast RSZ to the face with X=6.
That plus 3 from creating the Mercenary + 2 from the 2 Treasures, since BMC happens _before_ combat
would be just barely enough for me Thus silkster doesn't, so
; 2 treasures, Mercenary attacks (8-10).
B(6,1 or 2,5)
If silkster creates a Mercenary, then silkster loses to
3 from creating that Mercenary + 6 from RSZ to the face + 1 from a Treasure
with me taking at most 3 damage, so instead
; 3 treasures, Mercenary attacks (5-9).
Tomorrow I will update my code to account for the Treasures and potential lifelink.
Weird. I saw the discussion and I'm glad no one is calling for the illegality of a card that Scryfall says is legacy/vintage/commander playable. When I saw BMC a few weeks ago, I actually wondered whether it was legal and filed it away as maybe being useful in a few rounds. I actually thought about asking whether the new set was allowed, but then Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes got played from the same set and no one batted an eye, so I figured the whole set (minus creatures) was in.
Oh yeah, I missed that line. Not sure then.
5. RoosterCocoa: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Remote Farm, Show and Tell, Form of the Dragon
1. Asthereal (TO): Azorius Chancery, Faerie Conclave, Energy Field, Detention Sphere
Detention Sphere takes Form of the Dragon. LL
2. dte: Irrigation ditch, Sandwurm convergence, Show and tell, Sheltered valley
The sandwurms can't attack me. WW
3. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Darkslick Shores, Lingering Souls, Windfall
You can't beat Form of the Dragon, but I can't do anything about discard. WL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Sandstone Needle, Island, Show and Tell, Cruel Reality
My hard counter. LL
6. jfb1337: Forbidding Watchtower, The Wandering Emperor, Prismatic Ending, Saltcrusted Steppe
You can't attack me or deal with my enchantment. WW
7. silkster: Ebon Stronghold, Vault of the Archangel, Agonizing Remorse, Black Market Connections
You can't beat Form of the Dragon, but I can't do anything about discard. WL
8. Phasmoid: Mercadian Bazaar, Mercadian Bazaar, Red Sun's Zenith, Crackle with Power
Having only 5 life comes with downsides. LL
9. FTW: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Darksteel Citadel, Convincing Mirage, The Blackstaff of Waterdeep
You can't beat Form of the Dragon, but I need my lands. WL
10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal
You can't beat Form of the Dragon, but I can't do anything about discard. WL
11. Reeplcheep: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge
The giants can't attack through Form of the Dragon. WW
10W 0D 10L = 30
It seems I chose the worst payoff for Show and Tell.
8. me: Mercadian Bazaar , Mercadian Bazaar , Red Sun's Zenith , Crackle with Power
1. Asthereal (TO): Azorius Chancery, Faerie Conclave, Energy Field, Detention Sphere LL 0-6
neither of my spells are instants
2. dte: Irrigation ditch, Sandwurm convergence, Show and tell, Sheltered valley LL 0-6
too many Wurms for me
3. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Darkslick Shores, Lingering Souls, Windfall LL 0-6
Even if you gave me time to start casting RSZ with X=0, that wouldn't
help me, since you could just cast Lingering Souls from your hand.
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Sandstone Needle, Island, Show and Tell, Cruel Reality LL 0-6
The Cruel Reality is that I lose this.
5. RoosterCocoa: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Remote Farm, Show and Tell, Form of the Dragon WW 6-0
I you take the Form of a Dragon, then I Crackle with X=1 on T5,
which is just fast-enough. Otherwise, I wait and then Crackle with X=4.
6. jfb1337: Forbidding Watchtower, The Wandering Emperor, Prismatic Ending, Saltcrusted Steppe WW 6-0
Prismatic Ending is dead against me, and you can't cast Emperor before T6, so you can't use her more
than twice before I can target her on my T7. That turn, I Crackle with X=2, leaving you with just 1 or 2
lands and 10 or 12 life, and me with 1 still stored. Since any tokens you made had vigilance, the only way
you can have more than 10 life is by exiling Watchtower. That would leave you locked out, letting me take
however long I need to cast RSZ for lethal. Thus, assume you are at 10 life. Since I still have 1 stored,
I would cast RSZ for lethal on T13. You get at most 1 Samurai attack, so the best Emperor's loyalty
abilities can achiever for you is putting two +1/+1 counters on Watchtower. However, Watchtower
can't attack faster than doing so on turns 4,7,10,13 , so I do survive to cast RSZ for the win.
7. silkster: Ebon Stronghold, Vault of the Archangel, Agonizing Remorse, Black Market Connections ?L ?-?
When I am OTD, I lose to T2 BMC ,
T3 Mercenary + Treasure + Agonizing Remorse exiling Crackle
, as verified by the Python 3 code at https://paste.ee/p/goLE0 ,
which uses approximately 1 GB of memory.
When I am OTP, I beat T2 BMC + T3 exile Crackle ,
although silkster might have something better than that.
8. Phasmoid: Mercadian Bazaar, Mercadian Bazaar, Red Sun's Zenith, Crackle with Power
This is me.
9. FTW: Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Darksteel Citadel, Convincing Mirage, The Blackstaff of Waterdeep LL 0-6
The Walking Statue is Indestructible and faster than me, so I lose even without being Convinced by a Mirage.
10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal LL 0-6
Zombie smash
11. Reeplcheep: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge LL 0-6
I can't deal more than 3 damage before T5, which is too late for me.
7 LL + 1 ?L + 2 WW = at least 12 points , at most 15 points
I am still working on OTP me vs silkster OTD .
Note that, if nothing else changes in silkster's results, then OTP me vs silkster OTD _will_ affect the bannings.
With that in mind, we should decide how we will, going forward, handle inconsistency from WotC on card legality.
(https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...tes-2020-11-06
vs the gatherer entry , which could happen again even if BMC gets banned this round)
My preference is that we go with Scryfall, subject to this being changed if,
far-enough ahead of a round-start, someone shows that WotC resolved its inconsistency.
I don't see a way out of the following line:
P: Bazaar1
s: Stronghold
P: Bazaar2, B1=1
s: Vault, Remorse the Zenith, s=19
P: B1=2, B2=1
s: Connections, make 3/2, s=16
P: B1=3, B2=2
s: Make 3/2, s=13, attack, P=17
P: B1=4, B2=3
s: Make treasure, s=12, attack, P=11
P: B1=5, B2=4
s: Make treasure, s=11, attack, P=5
P: Untap, Cackle with 3 targets, killing both tokens, s=6
s: Make 3/2, s=3
P: (nothing)
s: Make treasure, s=2, attack, P=2
P: (nothing)
s: Make treasure, s=1, attack, P dies.
As close as they come, but I fear silk takes this one.
If only silk had thought to use Sheltered Valley instead of that Vault, so we would know he could never die to his own wincon.
Also, Gatherer should be the main source as it is the official communication channel for Wizards, but if it's wrong, that doesn't help us very much.
So I'm okay with using Scryfall for certain situations where Gatherer is clearly wrong, but in general, we should use Gatherer for rulings and erratas.
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On the bolded part: With 8 manas, Crackle does 10 damages, effectively killing Silk?
I do not know who wins, but the above line does not work for Silk.
Edit: not using discard, and saving treasures for lifelink might be the way?
P: Bazaar1
s: Stronghold
P: Bazaar2, B1=1
s: Connections, make 3/2 + treasure, s=16 t1
P: B1=2, B2=1
s: 3/2+treasure, attack (s12/p17/t2)
P: B1=3, B2=2
s: treasure, attack (s11/p11/t3)
Silk wins if P does nothing:
s: Make treasure, s=10 t=4, attack, use lifelink --> s16 P5, Silk wins?
with 5 manas available, not many options: lose 3 manas to zenith a token (and lose the race later), or 5 to deal 5 to the face with crackle (which then ends up with zenith being exiled next turn).
I would chalk Silk WW?
Right, using the treasures for the Vault lifelink. Very techy.
If Phasmoid uses Zenith to kill a 3/2, he slows himself way down. This should work.
BTW, no results yet from alpha and Reep, but I assume that's 3-3 just like maxx! vs. Reep.
So we should have our results and bannings. I'll start updating things.
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Scores for round 13:
1. alphastryk: 39 - 3,9
1. maxx!: 39 - 3,9
3. Asthereal (TO): 38 - 3,8
6... dte: 32 - 3,2
5. FTW: 35 - 3,5
3... GoblinSmashmaster: 38 - 3,8
7. RoosterCocoa: 30 - 3
7. silkster: 30 - 3
9. Reeplcheep: 22 - 2,2
10. Phasmoid: 12 - 1,2
11. jfb1337: 8 - 0,8
Leading to this massive list of bannings:
Agonizing Remorse
Azorius Chancery
Black Market Connections
Convincing Mirage
Cruel Reality
Dark Deal
Darkmoss Bridge
Darkslick Shores
Darksteel Citadel
Detention Sphere
Dunes of the Dead
Ebon Stronghold
Energy Field
Faerie Conclave
Form of the Dragon
Irrigation ditch
Lingering Souls
Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Rain of Filth
Remote Farm
Sandstone Needle
Sandwurm convergence
Sheltered valley
Show and tell
The Blackstaff of Waterdeep
Vault of the Archangel
Windfall
Nothing much changes in season standings though.
Stand by for the start of round 14, while I update the things and try to come up with a cool deck (and fail).
Last edited by Asthereal; 07-04-2022 at 09:33 AM.
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