14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
I didn't want to lose to Bombardment, and I didn't want to lose to Leyline, which left my options feeling pretty limited.
Against all the Bombardment decks I need to restart the game twice, having stolen Bombardment first time so you can't hide your creatures from Karn. Fortunately that doesn't appear to be more complicated in any matches I see.
vs
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares // 6-0, Plenty of time to resolve Karn
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment // 6-0, Plenty of time to resolve Karn
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void // 6-0, Maze handles Ravager
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw // 2-2, Unmask takes Karn, Maze handles Shriekmaw.
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem // 6-0, Fortunately you need Wall twice for Golem, so Maze handles Shadow.
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer // 6-0, Maze handles it.
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment // 6-0, Leyline, Maze.
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton // 2-2, Port locks Karn out, Maze handles Chrono.
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim // 6-0, I might lose Leyline, but Maze doesn't care.
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider // 2-2, Edit: Forgot Rider can kill Planeswalkers. Agree on your drawing logic.
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance // 2-2, I'll get Maze but I'll lose Karn.
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom // 0-6, I can play Karn, but he can't do anything useful against a pile of Faeries.
13. Serguei: Peat Bog, BitterBlossom, Unmask, Surgical extraction // 0-6, Now I can't even play Karn.
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity // 6-0, Leyline, Maze.
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls // 0-6, Two creatures and no Karn.
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress // 2-2, Maze but no Karn.
58 points.
vsOriginally Posted by PJim
How will you get Maze when you are OTD?
maxx!'s T1 :
Forest
Tinder Wall
sacrifice Tinder Wall to add
Persist returns Tinder Wall
sacrifice Tinder Wall to add another
cast Collective Defiance
Leyline of the Void prevents Tinder Wall from coming back with persist, so the earliest I can cast Collective Defiance is my second turn, after untapping my Forest.vs
How will you get Maze when you are OTD?
maxx!'s T1 :
Forest
Tinder Wall
sacrifice Tinder Wall to add
Persist returns Tinder Wall
sacrifice Tinder Wall to add another
cast Collective Defiance
Oh, yes.
With my track record on these, I'm probably wrong about the following too ^_^ ,
but at least I don't see anyone having pointed out an error in what I was thinking for
OTP jhhdk vs Reeplcheep OTD
(on the previous page).
I believe I made a conditional formatting formula to automatically
red-highlight inconsistent match-entries in the spreadsheet.
Since there might be an error, I did not apply it to our actual results grid.
Instead, I set up the 4x4 area from W21 to Z25 inclusive
as a testing area for the conditional formatting formula.
Please try out values in that 3x3 "results grid" to see if you encounter any issues.
Reeplcheep doesn't need Ravager to win as long as Tinder Wall is gone. If jhhdk plays Bombardment and shoots Ravager, then Beetle can keep recurring and attacking as a 1/1. If jhhdk doesn't, he can't stop Ravager from growing.
After finding so much t1 kill with protection from STP. We had to find a solution the opponent goes off.
First LL comes to mind and after with the versatility of sugical+ unmask I came to
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
Because I did not want to have a lonely threat vulnerable to removals
But it was years I did not see a faerie macabre ( legacy tournaments were a long long long time ago now) but it would have been the perfect choice here instead
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
Bitterblossom is unbeatable for you.
WW 6pts -> 6pts
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
OTP Unmask young wolf and BB beats easily mishras factory
OTD it is more complex
T1 wolf
T1 Peat bog
T2 mishra attack with wolf S19
T2 Bitterblossom
T3 Attack with wolf and mishra S16
T3 1 token S15
T4 attack with both block wolf surgical it by paying B (peatbog untap) S13
T4 1 token s12
T5 attack mishra s10
T6 2 token s9
T7 attack mishra trade
T7 1 token s8
T8 attack trade
T8 1 token s7
T9 nothing
t9 1 token attacks 1 just created S6-Wrath of Pie19
T10 nothing
t10 2 tokens attack 1 just created S5-Wrath of Pie17
T11 nothing
t11 3 tokens attack 1 just created S4-Wrath of Pie14
T12 nothing
t12 4 tokens attack 1 just created S3-Wrath of Pie10
T13 nothing
t13 5 tokens attack 1 just created S2-Wrath of Pie05
T14 nothing
t14 6 tokens attack 1 just created S1-Wrath of Pie-1
Just in time but it should be enough
Are we aligned ?
I think it is WW for me
6pts -> 12pts
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
OTP I unmask ravager and that's it :0
OTD T1 you have the choice to either play ravager or clockwork.
If you play Ravagger I will have surgical to manage the loop and avoid the draw
If you play clockwork I unmask ravager
So WW 6 pts -> 18 pts
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
OTP I unmask your unmask and wins withBB
OTD you unmask BB and I unmask shriekmaw for a draw
WD 4 pts -> 22pts
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
OTP I unmask tinder wall and races you with BB pretty easily
OTD
T1 17 you play wall and try to go of for lodstone and I surgical - S18
T1 Peat Bog
T2 14-18
T2 BitterBlossom
T3 11-18 Shadow 2/2
T3 11-17 1 Token
T4 Attack deal 2 or 5 -> 8-12 or 11-15
T4 I create a new token which will be blocking DS and loose a point of life each turn, and I will be able to win the race with attacking tokens
WW 6 pts -> 28 pts
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
OTP unmask your threat and wins
OTD I will not be able to play anything
WL 3 pts -> 31 pts
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
you cannot play both WOlf and bombardement in same turn so i un mask the other and wins the race with BB
WW 6 pts -> 37 pts
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
WL 3 pts -> 40 pts
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
I am so sad to disagree but you are wrong XD
I cannot do anything agains your deck same for mattamamort.
OTP we can only unmask your threat to draw. and you have all the answer to win vs BB. It looks like you designed your deck to beat mine XD
DL 1 pt -> 41 pts
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
After making all the cases It appears that taking Obliterator is mandatory with unmask to win.
Let s count when I am OTD
T1 Subterranean Hangar
T1 unmask obliterator , peat bog
T2 1 counter
T2 BB
T3 2 counters
T3 1 token S19-R20
T4 3 counters
T4 1 token attack with 1 S18-R19
If you play Fae
T5 faerie
T5 3 tokens S17-R19
T6 1 counter
T6 4 tokens s16-R19
T7 2 counters
T7 5 tokens S15-R19
T8 3 counters
T8 6 tokens S14-R19
T9 rider
T9 7 tokens S13-R19
T10 attack with rider and bloc 5 tokens. 1 Counter S13-R21
T10 6 tokens S12-R21
T11 2 counters
T11 7 tokens S11-R21
T12 3 counters
T12 8 tokens S10-R21
T13 Rider
T13 9 tokens S9-R21
T14 1 counter. attack with rider. 7 tokens S9-R23
T14 1 new token + 1 token in defense attack with 6 tokens 1 blocked and killed S8 -R18
T15 2 counters
T15 1 new token + 1 token in defense attack with 6 tokens 1 blocked and killed S7 -R13
T16 3 counters
T16 1 new token + 1 token in defense attack with 6 tokens 1 blocked and killed S6 -R8
T17 rider
T17 8 tokens S5 -R8
T18 attack with rider 1counter 6 tokens S5-R10
T18 1 new token attacck with 6 tokens S04-R5
T19 attack with rider 1 counter 6 tokens S5-R10
T189 1 new token attack with 6 tokens S03-R0
it is a WW for me
WW 6 pts -> 47pts
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
OTP unmask tinder wall then BB races easily
OTD you cannot go collective and BB races easiliy once again
WW 6 pts -> 53pts
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
Nice find
DD 2pts -> 55 pts
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
Unmask Karn then win both OTP and OTD
WW 6 pts -> 61 pts
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
Surgical will manage the persit triggers and BB will win
WW 6 pts -> 67 pts
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
I can only unmask crashing OTP to draw
LD 1 pts -> 68 pts
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
DL 1 pts -> 69 pts
Instead, can't you Daze the Walker, forcing Phasmoid to tap the land, and then Claim Walker on your turn? When you're OTP you should win this.
Asthereal's results for round 5:
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares <-me, going waaaay offbeat
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment LL 0-6
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw WW 6-0
(You Unmask Plow. I play lands and attack with Factory until you drop Maw for no value (either as 2/1 or even more slowly as 3/2). If you attack, I can attack back and win the race. So you keep Maw back. I attack, you block and we both persist. You into a 2/1, me into a 1/1 land. Then I cast Killer, allowing me to win the race.)
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem DD 2-2
(I can Plow Golem, and eternally tap Shadow with Killer. I don't see a better line.)
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer WW 6-0
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment LL 0-6
(I don't see how I can time Plow, making you sac the Wolf without being able to keep the combo going. Might be wrong, but I think Plow isn't good enough here.)
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton WD 4-1
(I cast Killer as soon as I can. Only then do I Plow Chrono. Now if you Port my Factory, I can attack with Killer and nibble on your life total. If you don't, I can attack with Factory, which trade with Muta. Muta comes back as 1/1. From here I can attack with the 1/2 Killer. OTP this is fast enough for the win, OTD I have to take the draw.)
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim WW 6-0
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider LL 0-6 (did not plan for this..)
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance LL 0-6 (good deck!)
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom LL 0-6
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction LL 0-6 (didn't expect Blossom at all...)
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated LL 0-6 (can't stop Walkers)
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity WW 6-0 Overlooked the fact that you can't play your cards in a favorable order.
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls LL 0-6
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress DD 2-2
Total: 38 points, disagreements settled
Last edited by Asthereal; 06-22-2021 at 07:15 PM.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
Your results make sense, will update the spreadsheet.
You're quite right, thanks for pointing it out! Somehow missed that I could deny your win condition too OTD. I've updated my results post and the spreadsheet accordingly.
This makes more sense to me than Tylert's analysis.
He has Factory as a 2/1, which may be the error. 2/2 Factory forces trade with 2/2 Mutavault, both persist and trade again, and then 1/2 Giant Killer eventually breaks the stalemate. (Porting Factory loses to Giant Killer beatdown)
The lifegain from StP does not matter enough to force a draw, because Asthereal can attack back with +1 power (3 or 2) if Mutavault attacks. That extra attack power is more than the StP life.
I have leyline of the void guys.... Factory doesn't come back.
Right, Leyline. All my other oponents pitch that one to Unmask so I kinda forgot about it.
So OTP I go:
A: Plains, Killer
T: Muta, Chrono
A: Factory, attack for 1, T=19, Plow Chrono, T=20
T: Port (now if you attack for 2, I attack back for 3 and win, if you Port, I attack for 1 and also win, so you wait)
A: Attack with Factory, you block and trade, Muta comes back as 1/1
T: Can't attack yet, as Killer is 1/2 and your guy is 1/1, so you wait
A: Attack with 1/2, you go to 19 first
T: Attack back, now I go to 19
And I win this race.
OTD you're a turn faster, so I can't win the race and have to go for the draw.
4-1?
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
Ok.
I stack the triggers to let Rider persist on turns 10 and 14 instead of putting it back in my library, which I think would do enough chip damage or kill enough of your tokens that I might win?
I don't see how that would help shiftyhomunculus against me at all.
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
Homunculus OTP
H: Wolf
P: Walker. Any attempt at Culling or Mana Skimmer loses to Daze.
H: Claim the Walker. -1/2
P: Pass. Any attempt at Culling or Mana Skimmer loses to Daze.
H: Cannot attack 1/1 into -1/2.
Draw
Dazing the Walker doesn't stop that line. The issue is that Walker > deck.
Phasmoid OTP
P: Walker. Culling. Mana Skimmer
H: Wolf
P: Skimmer taps land forever and races Wolf
DL 1-4 for Shifty
(WD 4-1 for Phasmoid)
I dont think this line works as well if we decide to attack earlier and let rider as 1/2 forever.
T10 attack with rider and bloc 5 tokens. Rider persists as 1/2. 1 Counter S13-R21
T10 6 tokens S12-R21
T11 attack 1/2 S11-R22
T11 1 New token, Attack with 6 Tokens, 1 is blocked S10-R17
T12 attack 1/2 S9-R18
T12 1 New token, Attack with 6 Tokens, 1 is blocked S8-R13
T13 attack 1/2 S7-R14
T13 1 New token, Attack with 6 Tokens, 1 is blocked S6-R9
T14 attack 1/2 S5-R10
T14 1 New token, Attack with 6 Tokens, 1 is blocked S4-R5
T15 attack 1/2 S3-R6
T15 Attack with 5 Tokens, 2 are kept for block on turn16, S2-R2
T16 attack 1/2, block with token S2-R3
T16 Upkpeep go to S1-R3, attack with all token S1-R-2 Serguei wins
Attacking or not attacking with Faerie is identical as we always blocks with the summoning sick token, and you kill one token per turn either by blocking / attacking. The only turn it changes is the last one since we have to block both creatures, otherwise we would die to BB.
Example without Faerie attack
T11 attack 1/2 6 tokens S11-R22
T11 1 New token, Attack with 6 Tokens, 1 is blocked, 6 Token left S10-R17
Example with Faerie attack
T11 attack 1/2 + Faerie, Faerie is blocked 5 tokens left S11-R22
T11 1 New token, Attack with 5 Tokens, None is blocked, 6 Token left S10-R17
As usual, we first find turn 1 decks, all of them died to GY Hard, so GY Hate would be very popular.
From there, I had two options : The best GY deck or The best anti gy deck. I loved Chancellor G, Tinder Wall, Force of vigor and Golem but it had two issues, losing to some combo on turn 1 (but decent vs bombardment)+ losing to people that would play other hate than leyline. So lets join the LL side.
Many options available from very aggro (with DS mostly) to very control, we ended up in the middle.
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
Bitterblossom is unbeatable for you.
WW 6pts -> 6pts
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
OTP Unmask young wolf and BB beats easily mishras factory
OTD Leyline in Play
T1 Wolf M20-W20
T2 Peat Bog M20-W20
T3 Mishra M19-W20
T4 BB M19-W20
T5 Attack wolf + Mishra M16-W20
T6 BB creates Token M15-W20
T7 Attack wolf + Mishra, Wolf is blocked and is exiled M13-W20
T8 BB creates Token M12-W20
T9 Attack Mishra M10-W20
T10 BB creates Token (2 Tokens) M9-W20
T11 Attack trade M9-W20
T12 BB creates Token (1 Token) M8-W20
T13 Nothing
T14 BB creates Token (1+1 Token) M7-W19
T15 Nothing
T16 BB creates Token (2+1 Token) M6-W17
T13 Nothing
T14 BB creates Token (3+1 Token) M5-W14
T16 BB creates Token (4+1 Token) M4-W10
T18 BB creates Token (5+1 Token) M3-W5
T20 BB creates Token (6+1 Token) M3-W-1
I think it is WW for me
6pts -> 12pts
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
OTP I unmask ravager and that's it :0
OTD, Leyline is played
T1, Vein, sac for ravager is not an option since BB easily beats a 1/1, so Beetle it is
T2, Peat Bog
T3, Ravager, attack with beetle M19-R20
T4, BitterBlossom
T5, Ravager Sac Bettle, attack for 2, M17-R20
T6, BB create token (1 Token) M16-W20
T7, attack for 2, M14-R20
T8, BB create token (2 Token) M13-W20
T9, attack for 2, blocked M13-R20
Since I start with higher life total than vs Wrath, I win here as well
WW
6pts -> 18pts
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
OTP I unmask your unmask and wins withBB
OTD you unmask BB and I unmask shriekmaw for a draw
WD 4 pts -> 22pts
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
I play Leyline
OTD
T0 Leyline, you can not play golem
T1 Citadel M20-D17
T2 Peat Bog
T3 Citadel M20-D14
T4 BitterBlossom
T5 11-20 Shadow 2/2 M20-D11
T6 BB creates Token (1 Token) M19-D11
T7 Attack with DS deal 2 or 5 leading to -> M14-D8 or M17-D11
T8 BB creates Token (1+1 Token) M18-D10 or M13-D7
From there I blocked, with the untapped token and we lose 1 life each turn
WW -> 28Pts
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
OTP : Unmask on Skimmer
OTD : I cant answer Skimmer
WL -> 31Pts
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Leyline is played
OTD
T0 Leyline
T1 Wolf
T2 Peat Bog
T3 Wall + Attack M19-J20
T4 BitterBlossom
T5 Bombardment + Attack M18-J20
T6, BB create token (1 Token) M17-W20
T7 Attack, Trade and BB wins from here
WW -> 37Pts
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
OTD : I can never cast BB
OTP : BB beats chrono + Vault
WL -> 40 Pts
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
The deck designed to beat mine :D
OTP : I can unmask wolf leading to draw
OTD : Daze and Claim are answer to BB, cant do much
DL -> 41 Pts
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
See Serguei Analysis
WW -> 47Pts
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
OTP unmask tinder wall then BB races easily Narnam
OTD two options
T0 Leyline
T1 Forest Wall -> To threaten collective Defiance next turn
T2 Unmask Renagade -> This is a draw
ou
T0 Leyline
T1 Forest Renagate
T2 Peat Bog
T3 Wall
T4 Blossom -> This is a win for me
I guess you take the draw
WD -> 51Pts
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
DD -> 53 Pts
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
Karn is unmasked, BB wins
WW -> 59Pts
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
Leyline in play
BB beats a 1/2
WW -> 65Pts
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
I can only unmask crashing OTP to draw
LD 1 pts -> 66 pts
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
DL 1 pts -> 67 pts
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