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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #5081

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    14. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune
    That's me playing a better Goblin Lackey
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    Swords to Plowshares handles Licia, and Stromkirk Noble attacks 7 times for 28 damage.
    How is this not 0-6 for you?
    Last edited by Phasmoid; 07-11-2021 at 07:38 AM. Reason: missed extra attacked needed due to lifegain

  2. #5082

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    7. PJim: Tundra, Chancellor of the Tangle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Stormscape Apprentice

    vs

    1. Asthereal (TO): Tropical Island, Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Daze // 3-3
    2. Wrath of Pie: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Myr Superion, Deputy of Detention // 3-3
    3. Phasmoid: Mana Confluence, Shivan Sand-Mage, Durkwood Baloth, Corpulent Corpse // 3-3
    4. RoosterCocoa: Hickory Woodlot, Twilight Mire, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Fulminator Mage // 0-6
    5. dte: Gemstone mine, lightning bolt, serene remembrance, Encroach // 3-3
    6. Reeplcheep: Tundra, Daze, cennís tactician, Dismember // 3-3
    8. alphastryk: Gemstone Mine, Old-Growth Dryads, Encroach, Swords to Plowshares // 3-3
    9. H: Badlands, Inkmoth Nexus, Valentin, Dean of the Vein, Furor of the Bitten // 6-0
    10. silkster: Undiscovered Paradise, Swords to Plowshares, Swarm Shambler, Evil Presence // 6-0
    11. Serguei: Remote Farm, Interplanar beacon, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Kaya, Orzhov Usurper // 0-6, Disagreement I think because Serguei's missed that Grist bypasses Thalia
    12. maxx!: Scrubland, Cennís Tactician, Encroach, Dismember // 3-3
    13. mattamort: Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Tropical Island, Daze // 3-3
    14. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune // 6-0, Disagreement, I can tap down Licia forever OTD.
    15. Tylert: Karakas, Student of warfare, Dismember, Noxious revival // 0-6
    16. FTW: Undiscovered Paradise, Duress, Swords to Plowshares, Stromkirk Noble // 6-0

    48 points

  3. #5083

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    7. PJim: Tundra, Chancellor of the Tangle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Stormscape Apprentice
    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    9. H: Badlands, Inkmoth Nexus, Valentin, Dean of the Vein, Furor of the Bitten // 6-0

    I get that H wins when H is OTP:

    On T1, H casts Dean. ​ H never blocks.
    On T2, H plays Inkmoth, uses both lands to
    cast Furor on Dean, and then 3/3 Dean attacks.
    On each of Hís turns after that, H animates Inkmoth
    before combat and attacks with everything that can.
    Inkmoth will have flying, so you canít block it.
    Dean has Menace, so you canít single-block it.
    If you double-block Dean, then both of your creatures die,
    after which you lose to Inkmoth. ​ Thus, there is no blocking.
    If you donít cast Thalia on T1, then you canít cast her at all.
    In that case you lose because, each of your attacks will be for just 1 and allow Dean to
    counterattack for 3, and if you donít attack then you lose to whichever of ​ Dean , Inkmoth
    eventually gets enough attacks through, since you canít tap both of them in the same turn.
    Thus, you cast T1 Thalia and T2 Stormscape Apprentice.
    Summoning sickness means Stormscape Apprentice canít stop Hís T2 or T3 attacks.
    After that, Stormscape Apprentice attacking just makes things worse for you
    unless itís for lethal, since your attacks are for at most 3, Deanís attack
    would regain that life, and Inkmoth would give you a poison counter.
    Similarly, if Stormscape Apprentice stops Inkmoth from attacking,
    then that turn plus the previous turn just makes things worse for you,
    since Deanís attack regains any life H lost and reduces your life total.
    Thus, after Hís T3 attacks, unless you double-attacking would be for lethal,
    Stormscape Apprentice might-as-well just keep Dean tapped down.
    Those two attacks cause you to get 1 poison and H to gain 6 life,
    and Thaliaís intervening attack causes H to lose 2 life.
    Those result in H having 24 life and you getting only 9 more attacks before you lose to poison.
    Thalia only deals 18 damage with those attacks, and since Stormscape Apprentice
    only attacks if itís for lethal, Stormscape Apprentice does not deal more than 1 damage.
    That is not enough to kill H, so you lose this game.

  4. #5084

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    14. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune
    That's me playing a better Goblin Lackey

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    7. PJim: Tundra, Chancellor of the Tangle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Stormscape Apprentice
    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    14. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune // 6-0, Disagreement, I can tap down Licia forever OTD.


    I get that ​ OTP GoblinSmashmaster vs PJim OTD ​ is a draw.


    GoblinSmashmaster canít win:
    On GSmís T1, GSm can make Licia on GSmís T1 and pump her to 7/7. ​ On T1, PJim casts Stormscape Apprentice.
    On GSMís T2, Sorin and Licia can both pump Licia and Licia can attack for 11.
    After that, Stormscape Apprentice can tap Licia down forever to stop her from attacking.
    Sorin can sacrifice Licia to deal 3 more damage to PJim, but with Licia tapped down forever,
    thereís no way for GSm to cause PJim to lose more life than the 11+3, so GSm canít win.

    PJim can't win:
    GSm makes Licia on GSmís T1 and pump her to 7/7, at the cost of 5 life.
    If PJim does not cast Thalia on T1, then PJim wonít be able to cast her at all, so each of PJimís attacks
    would be for 1 and allow a counterattack for 7, which is not enough to win even with the 5-life head start.
    Thus, PJim casts T1 Thalia. ​ On GSmís T2, Licia pumps herself to 10/10 at the cost of another 5 life, and then attacks.
    If Thalia blocks, then she dies, and attacking for 1 vs counterattacks for 7 is not enough even with a 10-life head start.
    Thus Thalia does not block, so PJim goes to 10 life and lifelink brings GSm back to 20 life.
    Thalia may or may not attack; suppose she doesnít tap but GSm takes 2 damage anyway. ​ That brings GSm to 18 life.
    On GSmís T3, Stormscape Apprentice is summoning-sick, so Licia attacks and PJim must block.
    If Stormscape Apprentice blocks, then PJim can no longer stop Licia from attacking
    and loses to 2 more attacks by her. ​ Thus Thalia blocks, so she dies.
    At this point, PJim has a life disadvantage, so PJimís Stormscape Apprentice canít even beat a 1/1.

  5. #5085
    Tundra Player
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Phasmoid View Post
    As I described earlier, I pasted my conditional formatting into this round's actual results grid.
    There is currently a disagreement between me and alphastryk:

    OTP me: ​ Mana Confluence, Shivan Sand-Mage, Durkwood Baloth, Corpulent Corpse
    OTD alphastryk: ​ Gemstone Mine, Old-Growth Dryads, Encroach, Swords to Plowshares

    alphastryk's comment for this match is
    .

    I suppose alphastryk can still Encroach after I've played my land,
    but I don't see how that helps alphastryk at all. ​ I believe I win this game.
    Yeah I don't know why I thought Encroach mattered OTD - clearly WL

  6. #5086
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Sorry, I've been on holidays and haven't kept up with the other results posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serguei View Post
    I am not so sure grist is a creature in my hand ;) and even if not you will not be able to manage kaya
    I noticed Grist was also a Planeswalker in hand (creature in addition, not instead) and thought Duress would still hit it, but of course it's not a "noncreature" anymore. That affects 2 matches.

    OTP I play T1 Stromkirk, T2 Duress Kaya and grow Stormkirk to 2/2.
    You play T2 Grist and +1 for a token [4 counters].
    Dismember can buy me an attack and stall your removal, but you can eventually +1 every turn to chump and then get high enough to keep an Insect and destroy Stromkirk.
    LL 0-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Phasmoid View Post
    I can alternatively wait till T2 to suspend Sand Mage, so that I get all 3 of my creatures on T6.
    I believe that is enough for DD 2-2 against you.
    Ah yes, I missed that line. I assumed it was optimal to sequence Sand Mage first so it removes counters from something else, but you have a viable line playing Sand Mage 2nd. If you get all 3 creatures on T6 then I can't beat you.

    OTP I'll have a 6/6 Stromkirk with you taking 1+2+3+4+5=15 combat damage + 3 mana confluence damage [P=2 life]. Then you get all 3 creatures. I can Dismember the 5/5 but my 6/6 can't get through the 3/3+3/2.
    OTD it'll be 5/5 vs 3/3+3/2, also a draw.
    DD 2-2


    I was about to submit Aether Vial.dec, but I thought T4 Deputy would be too slow against all the T1-T2 combo and prison decks I saw, so I thought I had to play either Daze or Duress to stop them. Daze turned out to be much better than Duress due to Grist being a creature, and Swarm Shambler was a much better colored Chrono than Stromkirk Noble! The combo decks I feared didn't appear. I also thought more people would use the Spell Lands to cheat colored mana symbols in land slots, and Duress looked good against that since they count as nonlands in hand.

  7. #5087
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    7. PJim: Tundra, Chancellor of the Tangle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Stormscape Apprentice
    14. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune // 6-0, Disagreement, I can tap down Licia forever OTD.
    I agree with Phasmoid. WD 4-1 here.

    OTD you can tap down Licia but how do you actually win the game?

    Licia kills T3.
    T1 7/7 Licia (-5 life)
    T2 11/11 Licia attacks (+1 Sorin, -5 life)
    T3 12/12-15/15 Licia attacks again

    If you cast Thalia, you can only start tapping on your turn 3 (opponent's turn 4). Gobbo probably saw that and thought it was a win.
    If you skip Thalia you can start tapping on your turn 2 (opponent's turn 3), but then have no win condition. Draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post
    7. PJim: Tundra, Chancellor of the Tangle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Stormscape Apprentice
    9. H: Badlands, Inkmoth Nexus, Valentin, Dean of the Vein, Furor of the Bitten // 6-0
    Same thing here. Just having a tapper in the decklist isn't enough to automatically beat a big attacker. You need the tempo to do it and also attack back.

    Inkmoth and Dean are both dangerous clocks (relative to your 2/1 and 1/1). You can tap down Dean but then Inkmoth gets in damage and races. Agree with Phasmoid.

  8. #5088
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Still missing four results, and many of us are slow to respond.
    Do we need a break for the summer holidays?
    We could take a month. See eachother second half of August.
    It was suggested before, but I'm starting to feel we might need it.

    Let me know how you feel about this idea.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  9. #5089

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    H: ​ Badlands, Inkmoth Nexus, Valentin, Dean of the Vein, Furor of the Bitten
    vs
    me: Mana Confluence, Shivan Sand-Mage, Durkwood Baloth, Corpulent Corpse

    I conclude that I win both games in this match.





    My sequence is ​ Sand-Mage , Baloth , Corpse . ​ ​ ​ That costs me 3 life.
    Sand-Mage targets Baloth, so both of those enter on T5.
    Dean gets at most 4 attacks before my T5, so on my T5,
    I will have at least 5 life and you will have at most 32 life.




    if Dean is Furious on my T5:

    You must have tapped Badlands for Furor on one of
    T2,T3,T4,T5 , ​ so Inkmoth missed at least 1 attack.
    As a result, Inkmoth canít kill me before T12.
    I donít attack on T5. ​ Dean must attack, and I double-block.
    That results in Dean trading for Sand-Mage, so you gain 3 life and can create a Pest.
    You go to at most 35 life. ​ Suppose you donít create a Pest.
    If Inkmoth doesnít block, then Baloth + T8 Corpse kill you on T11.
    That is before T12, so Inkmoth would block. ​ That would be a chump block, so I would still win.
    Thus you do create a Pest. ​ Creating the Pest requires paying
    between my T5 and my T6, so Inkmoth canít attack on that turn of yours.
    That is another missed attack by Inkmoth, so it canít kill me before T13.
    On my turns 6 and 7, Baloth attacks. ​ ​ ​ On my turns 8 and 9, Baloth and Corpse attack.
    Those only let the Pest deal 4 damage with counterattacks, so I reach my T10 with at least 1 life.
    If Inkmoth blocked, then it was a chump and your 1/1 loses to my two bigger creatures.
    If Pest did not block, then you took 26 damage, leaving you with at most 9 life.
    If Pest did block, then you take 5 less damage and gained 1 life, leaving you with at most 15 life.
    In the latter case, I attack with everything to win no later than T12.
    Thus, Pest does not block before my T10, so you have at most 9 life.
    On my T10, Baloth attacks while Corpse stays back for defense.
    If Inkmoth blocks, then your 1/1 loses to my two bigger creatures.
    If Pest blocks, then you go to at most 10 life and I attack with everything on T11 and T12,
    forcing Inkmoth to block. ​ That would be a chump block, so I would still win.
    Thus you donít block, so you go to at most 4 life.
    On my T11, again Baloth attacks while Corpse stays back for defense.
    This time you must block. ​ If Inkmoth blocks, then your 1/1 loses to my two bigger creatures.
    Thus Pest blocks, leaving you with at most 5 life and Inkmoth as your only threat.
    Your next turn is at most T12, so 1 attack from it doesnít kill me.
    On the other hand, 1 unblocked attack from Baloth kills you, so I win no later than T13 in this case.



    if Dean is not Furious on my T5:


    Making Inkmoth Furious doesnít help, since you have no other mana to animate
    and attack in the same turn, and the aura would fall off in your end step.
    When Sand-Mage and Baloth enter, I have at least 13 life and you have at most 24 life.
    As long as you have not made Dean Furious, I keep attacking with everything that can.
    If you donít block, then this deals ​ 8+8+8+11 = 35 ​ damage to you on my turns 5,6,7,8
    respectively, whereas non-Furious Dean deals at most 3 damage in the meantime,
    so you must block or make Dean Furious no later than my T8.

    If you block with both without having made Dean Furious, other than both on Sand-Mage,
    then you end up with no creatures while I still have threats, which is a win for me.
    If you double-block Sand-Mage without having made Dean Furious, then that costs you
    Inkmoth and Dean, while killing Sand-Mage and maybe giving you a Pest.
    (If I remember the mana rules correctly, you canít actually
    get the Pest, but Iím not sure so Iíll suppose you can.)
    Once that happens, Baloth stays back if able until Corpse enters, if Corpse hasnít already entered.
    Your Pest deals at most 3 damage to me in the meantime, either by Furiously attacking before
    Baloth untaps, or via up to 3 attacks with all-but-the-first enabled by making Baloth Furious.
    In either case, that leaves me with with at least 7 life and Corpse
    on the battlefield, and two at-least-3-power creatures beat a at-most-3/3,
    even if you can make one of my creatures attack each combat if able.

    If Inkmoth blocks alone without you having made Dean Furious, then that puts a -1/-1 counter on
    one of my creatures but is otherwise a chump block, and means you canít ever pay for a Pest.
    My creatures would still have power at least ​ 2,4,2 , ​ so any double-block by me would kill Dean.
    With Inkmoth gone, I stay on defense if able until Corpse enters, if Corpse hasnít already entered.
    Even with a -1/-1 counter, making one of my creatures Furious would also make that
    creature big-enough to kill Dean, so you canít make me suicide any of my creatures.
    Dean deals at most 3 more damage to me, either by Furiously attacking before my creatures untap,
    or via up to 3 attacks with all-but-the-first enabled by making one of my creatures Furious.
    That leaves me with at least 7 life and all three of my creatures on the battlefield.
    Once I get that, Baloth attacks alone unless one of my creatures
    is Furious, in which case the Furious creature attacks alone.
    Dean attacking results in it dying to a double-block, so Dean canít deal damage to me
    and canít gain you more than 3 life, and Dean blocking results in it dying to my attacker,
    so I win if Inkmoth blocks alone without you having made Dean Furious.
    If non-Furious Dean blocks alone, then that is a chump block and means you canít ever get a Pest.
    After that, my creatures all keep attacking. ​ Dean got at most 3 attacks and 1 block since my T5 started,
    but ​ 35-(24+4) = 7 > max(3,5,3) , ​ so Inkmoth will also need to block to avoid you losing by my T8.
    That leaves you with no creatures while I sill have threats, which is a win for me.

    Thus you must make Dean Furious before you block and no later than my T8.
    Since Furor of the Bitten doesnít have Flash, that means before my T8.
    The turn after you do, if Corpse entered then Baloth attacks alone else I donít attack.
    Either Dean chump-blocks Baloth that turn or on your next turn, Dean attacks,
    I double-block, and Dean trades with one of my 3-power creatures.
    In each case, I resume attacking with everything that can.
    You get 3 attacks between my T5 and my T8, so from the start of my T5
    until Deanís death, he deals at most 8 damage, at most 5 of which is to me.
    That leaves me with at least 8 life and you with life
    at most 32 minus however much damage I dealt to you.
    If Dean chump-blocked Baloth, then that was on T8 (otherwise Baloth wouldíve stayed back)
    and I dealt ​ 8+8+8 = 24 ​ damage to you on my previous 3 turns, leaving you with 8 life.
    You gain at most 1 more life, and canít stop more than 10 of the ​ (3+5+3)+(3+5+3) = 22
    damage that would result from 2 unblocked attacks by each of my 3 creatures, so
    you would lose on T10, whereas the earliest Inkmoth could possibly kill me is T11.
    Thus Dean does not chump Baloth, so it trades for one of my 3-power creatures.
    Since this is still part of the ​ ďDean is not Furious on my T5Ē
    case, you didnít trade that turn, so you took 8 damage that turn.
    The minimal amount of damage you couldíve taken is from making Dean Furious the next turn,
    so that I hold back Baloth rather than another 3-power creature and you donít
    take extra damage from the 3-power creature that Dean is going to trade for.

    If you do that, then in the absence of you blocking,
    you would take 0,5,8 damage in my turns 6,7,8 respectively.
    That would leave you with ​ 32-(8+5+8) = 11 ​ life as my T8 ends.
    In particular, if you didnít and donít block, then you lose to my T10 attacks,
    whereas the earliest Inkmoth could possibly kill me is T11.
    If you didnít make a Pest, then your only block is a chump with Inkmoth, which just slows down your loss.
    Thus you did make a Pest. ​​ That requires tapping
    Inkmoth for mana after my T5, so it misses an attack.
    As a result, Inkmoth canít kill me before T12.
    Since Dean was not Furious on my T5, the earliest I couldíve held back
    was T6, so the earliest you couldíve gotten the Pest was between my T6
    and my T7, and before T12 there are only 5 attacks that you might block.
    As a result, the most damage you can avoid with a single-block is Inkmoth blocking
    Baloth on T7 to also reduce by 1 the amount of damage Baloth deals on turns 8,9,10,11.
    That avoids 9 damage, but otherwise wouldíve had only 11 life as my T8 ends,
    and I would deal 24 damage to you in total during my turns 9,10,11.
    As mentioned, Inkmoth canít kill me before T12. ​ The earliest you can get
    the Pest is T6, so that would take even longer to deal 8 damage to me.
    Thus you block with both of you creatures, but that leaves you
    with no creatures and me with at least a 4/4 Baloth, so I still win.

  10. #5090

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Still missing four results, and many of us are slow to respond.
    Do we need a break for the summer holidays?
    We could take a month. See eachother second half of August.
    It was suggested before, but I'm starting to feel we might need it.

    Let me know how you feel about this idea.
    I prefer to keep going, but without strong opinion.

  11. #5091
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Still missing four results, and many of us are slow to respond.
    Do we need a break for the summer holidays?
    We could take a month. See eachother second half of August.
    It was suggested before, but I'm starting to feel we might need it.

    Let me know how you feel about this idea.
    Sorry, i'm in hollidays with a few times to access internet...
    I'd be okay for a break.

  12. #5092
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    If it makes sense, I'm certainly ok taking a break as long as we set a clear date for when we restart so that I can remember.

  13. #5093
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Yesterday we lost access to the site, so I couldn't start the next round anyway, even if I wanted.
    So for the really short term: I won't start the next round this week.
    I'll wait a bit for people to respond to my question whether they need a summer break, and announce what we'll do in the next couple of days, hopefully.

    So if you haven't yet, please answer the question below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Still missing four results, and many of us are slow to respond.
    Do we need a break for the summer holidays?
    We could take a month. See eachother second half of August.
    It was suggested before, but I'm starting to feel we might need it.

    Let me know how you feel about this idea.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  14. #5094
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I thought it was just me, given the message about IP address being banned, but it sounds like the whole site was down.

  15. #5095

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I thought it was just me, given the message about IP address being banned, but it sounds like the whole site was down.
    Apparently it was maintenance issues. (I actually sent a message through the convenient form which was the only thing that could be accessed.)

  16. #5096

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Yah I am getting married and taking a honeymoon over the next month; I can barely submit decent decks as-is.

    I would appreciate a break.

  17. #5097
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Yah I am getting married and taking a honeymoon over the next month; I can barely submit decent decks as-is.

    I would appreciate a break.
    Congrats! Good reasons to be less focused on our game

  18. #5098

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Still missing four results, and many of us are slow to respond.
    Do we need a break for the summer holidays?
    We could take a month. See eachother second half of August.
    It was suggested before, but I'm starting to feel we might need it.

    Let me know how you feel about this idea.
    I'd be fine to keep going, but it sounds like some of us could use a break, so that's probably for the best.

    Congrats Reep!

    (And glad I'm not actually IP banned)

  19. #5099

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Yah I am getting married and taking a honeymoon over the next month; I can barely submit decent decks as-is.

    I would appreciate a break.
    Big congratulations :)

  20. #5100

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    If it makes sense, I'm certainly ok taking a break as long as we set a clear date for when we restart so that I can remember.
    I think I'm of the same opinion as Alphastryk. Preference is not to break, but I certainly don't mind it. And having a clear restart date would be nice. I thought we were restarting earlier in January and I checked for a few weeks and found nothing and then after all that I missed the start!

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