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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #4501

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I usually do this... send something and send another deck a few minutes later because I thought it was a good idea to think about the round more deeply :)
    As long as decks haven't been posted...
    I think I've done this twice and lost tons of points both times. There was one week where I submitted on the first day, and I had probably the best possible deck (45/48 only going WL to a Duress), but then I started seeing what decks beat mine, and I made a last minute change to something very mediocre.

  2. #4502
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    While we have a moment: are we going to take a week off, or jump right into the next deviant season? (Or interject some kind of bannathon? I vote creatures+lands for every card's legality to be super obvious.) I'm good for any of those.
    I will take a week to set things up.
    I have a plan for next season already, which I posted before starting this one, but I'm thinking of changing a few things.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  3. #4503
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    The deadline has passed, and I'm missing entries from FTW, maxx! and Serguei.
    I'll give you guys a few more hours while I do work stuff.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  4. #4504

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    The deadline has passed, and I'm missing entries from FTW, maxx! and Serguei.
    I'll give you guys a few more hours while I do work stuff.
    Sorry, been super busy IRL and haven't had time to keep up (and forgot). Sent something simple. I'll try to calculate my results for last round soon too.

  5. #4505
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by maxx! View Post
    Sorry, been super busy IRL and haven't had time to keep up (and forgot). Sent something simple. I'll try to calculate my results for last round soon too.
    I think more have this issue.
    Just FTW to go now...
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  6. #4506

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Any news ?

  7. #4507
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Serguei View Post
    Any news ?
    Nope. I'm PMing him. I don't want the season to end without an entry by the number two in the table.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  8. #4508
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    And we're complete, so let's go!


    DECKS FOR THE FINAL ROUND OF SEASON 9: Deviant Legacy - Part 2
    This round we play Unique: Each player gets 1 additional season point in this round for each card in their deck that no other player submitted this round.

    The entries:
    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate
    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine
    4. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Pithing Needle
    5. Wrath of Pie: Breeding Pool, Swarm Shambler, Sea's Claim, Pithing Needle
    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens
    9. silkster: Caves of Koilos, Detention Vortex, Encroach, Death's Shadow
    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton
    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls
    12. Serguei: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the moon, Goblin Rabblemaster
    13. maxx!: Tendo Ice Bridge, Scythe Tiger, Branchloft Pathway, Raze
    14. FTW: Force of Negation, Judge's Familiar, Razorverge Thicket, Crashing Footfalls

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    You can also enter your scores in the Google Spreadsheet for the season which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  9. #4509

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls

    My call was that Encroach and Magus were DtB and that basics were bad, so I played nolands.deck.


    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate
    6-0. I'm faster.
    6

    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2-2. Very nice deck! well designed. If you target me with raven's crime, I play footfalls in response and win because the shuffle is bad for you and I am fast. So at best you draw, as if you target yourself and play your hideout, I just keep my hand full. Can I win? OTP and OTD are the same with my deck. OTD: T1 swamp, 2 rhinos. attack for 8. T2, crime yourself, shuffle, hide Emrakul. attack for 8 (j4), play Emrakul and win. So we stare.
    8

    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine
    6-0. I go bigger.
    14

    4. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Pithing Needle
    6-0, I am faster.
    20

    5. Wrath of Pie: Breeding Pool, Swarm Shambler, Sea's Claim, Pithing Needle
    6-0, bigger/faster.
    26

    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
    6-0, see R. You're both not very lucky that someone played the exact same 4.
    32

    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit
    6-0, I am faster.
    38

    8. GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens
    2-2. Epic or not, we draw, crashing rhinos into gobs.
    40

    9. silkster: Caves of Koilos, Detention Vortex, Encroach, Death's Shadow
    2-2. You cannot grow shadow over 8/8, or I EoT play rhinos and win. So we stare. Something quite similar was one of my first decks, but got annoyed of the WL principle against non-basics haters.
    42

    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton
    6-0, I am faster.
    48

    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls
    me, playing epic.

    12. Serguei: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the moon, Goblin Rabblemaster
    6-0, what I planned for. And here goes the SSG.
    54

    13. maxx!: Tendo Ice Bridge, Scythe Tiger, Branchloft Pathway, Raze
    6-0, mana denial does not affect me.
    60.

    14. FTW: Force of Negation, Judge's Familiar, Razorverge Thicket, Crashing Footfalls
    6-0, I am way faster. But here goes the footfalls.
    66

    20W 6D 0L, 66. And as only card not played by others, electrodominace for +1. I was good with the whole deck until the late ones submitted :)

  10. #4510
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal's scores for round weirdness:

    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate
    That's me, hoping a near-pauper deck would be unique enough. It was, though I don't think it'll do all that well in the regular scoring.
    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    EDIT: Crime can be retraced from the yard, discarding Hollow, targeting yourself. If you do, you get to shuffle back all three cards and still can win. SO you essentially get one free Crime to cast if necessary. I missed that.
    So I have to discard Ephem and take the draw by Vindicating Hollow when it's in play, tapped. You're right, this is 2-2.
    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine
    OTD you make the guys, attack for 4 (16) / I play Spring. /Attack for 6 (10) / I play Desert, sus Ephem / Attack for 6 (4) / E3, Vindicate Vine / Attack for 2 (2) / E2, pass with Desert up / Attack, I kill one Walla with Desert, but that happens right after I die... So OTD you win, OTP I'm fast enough as you get one less swing in with Vine.
    EDIT: OTD I don't suspend the Ephem, but instead just Vindicate the Vine immeditately. This saves me 4 damage, and now Desert is fast enought to kill both Wallas before I die. I then can't win, because I can't get Ephem in play anymore, but at least I can draw that way. 4-1
    4. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Pithing Needle
    I can Vindicate the Basilica before you get to use Necro. Ephem wins from there. 6-0
    5. Wrath of Pie: Breeding Pool, Swarm Shambler, Sea's Claim, Pithing Needle
    You can Claim my land, but I can still sus Ephem. Math needed to figure out whether Ephem or Shambler is faster. See below. We both win one. 3-3
    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
    Same as Reep. 4-1
    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit
    Assuming this beats me. Don't feel like doing math, but Vindicate is slow and so is Ephem. This is a nice deck, by the way! 0-6
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens
    This races me easily. 0-6
    9. silkster: Caves of Koilos, Detention Vortex, Encroach, Death's Shadow
    Encroach beats my deck single-handedly. Your wincon would perhaps have liked a more painful land though. For instance the one that loses you 3 life and makes mana of any color? 0-6
    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton
    You play Mage on Vindicate, which allows you to race me, even OTD. 0-6
    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls
    So I can Vindicate one of the 4/4s, but my dude is a tad slow to block and trade with the other. 0-6
    12. Serguei: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the moon, Goblin Rabblemaster
    Magus of the Moon beats my deck. 0-6
    13. maxx!: Tendo Ice Bridge, Scythe Tiger, Branchloft Pathway, Raze
    Raze on Spring beats my deck. Wow my deck is really vulnerable. 0-6
    14. FTW: Force of Negation, Judge's Familiar, Razorverge Thicket, Crashing Footfalls
    You can play Judge's Familiar and ping for a few and then sac it to counter Vindicate. Two 4/4s beat one. 0-6

    Total: just 19 points, but I did managedto get the full 4 extra season points, at least.


    Against Wrath, OTD:
    W: Untapped land, W=18, Shambler
    A: Spring
    W: Claim Spring, attack for 1, A=19
    A: Desert, sus Ephem, E=4
    W: Shambler 2/2
    A: E=3
    W: Shamb 3/3
    A: E=2
    W: Shamb 4/4
    A: E=1
    W: Shamb 5/5
    A: Ephem resolves with haste, attack for 4, W=14
    W: Attack for 5, A=14
    You win this race.

    OTP
    A: Spring
    W: Untapped land, W=18, Claim Spring
    A: Desert, sus Ephem, E=4
    W: Cast Shambler
    A: E=3
    W: Shambler 2/2
    A: E=2
    W: Shambler 3/3
    A: E=1
    W: Shambler 4/4
    A: Ephem resolves with haste, attack for 4, W=14
    From here I win the race. So that's 3-3.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 05-03-2021 at 03:52 AM.
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  11. #4511
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate
    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine
    4. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Pithing Needle
    5. Wrath of Pie: Breeding Pool, Swarm Shambler, Sea's Claim, Pithing Needle
    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens
    9. silkster: Caves of Koilos, Detention Vortex, Encroach, Death's Shadow
    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton
    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls
    12. Serguei: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the moon, Goblin Rabblemaster
    13. maxx!: Tendo Ice Bridge, Scythe Tiger, Branchloft Pathway, Raze
    14. FTW: Force of Negation, Judge's Familiar, Razorverge Thicket, Crashing Footfalls

    1. Asthereal: 6-0 --> 6
    OTP T1 = Karakas, lotus petal, meddling mage naming vindicate. Ancient spring.
    T2 = Chronomaton, att (20-18). Desert, suspend ephemeron (4).
    T3 = C1, att (20-16). (3).
    T4 = C2, att (20-14). (2).
    T5 = C3, att (20-12). (1).
    T6 = C4, att (20-10). unsuspend ephemeron.
    You can't block my 5/5 chronomaton.
    OTD T1 = Ancient spring. meddling mage vindicate.
    T2 = (4). chronomaton (18-20).
    T3 = (3). C1 (16-20).
    T4 = (2). C2 (14-20).
    T5 = (1). C3 (12-20).
    T6 = At this point if you attack you do 4, if I attack, I do 6 so I win. If you try to stay in defense, I go up to 5/5 with chronomaton FTW.
    2. jhhdk: Meddling mage can allways name Emrakul and I have chronomaton to discard OTD. 6-0 --> 12
    3. Reeplcheep: 4-1 --> 16
    OTP: T1 = Meddling mage naming basking rootwalla.
    OTD: T1 = rootwalla x2, vengevine (20-16).
    T2 = meddling mage. (20-12).
    T3 = Chronomaton. (20-8).
    T4 = . (20-4) C1.
    T5 = . I double block you kill chronomaton and we draw.
    4. PJim: Meddling mage names necrotic sliver FTW OTP and OTD. 6-0 --> 22
    5. Wrath of Pie: OTP Meddling mage names swarm shambler. OTD, pithing needle takes care of chronomaton and you can grow swarm shambler FTW. 3-3 --> 25
    6. Alphastryk: Poor 0 bonus point deck thanks to Reeplcheep :( See reeplcheep analysis. 4-1 --> 29.
    7. H: I allways open by playing meddling mage on bitterblossom. you'll never have the mana to prowl bandit and chronomaton wins this. 6-0 --> 35
    8. Goblinsmashmaster: 6-0 --> 41
    OTP: Meddling mage naming rite of flame.
    OTD: T1 = 8 goblins (8G). Meddling mage.
    T2 = (20-13) (7G). Chronomaton.
    T3 = (20-7) (6G)..
    T4 = block C1 (20-3) (4G)
    T5 = (20-1) (2G).
    T6 = At this point, you can't attack so I can grow chronomaton to a 20/20 attack and win.
    If you stop attacking before, it will be the same result as chronomaton will have to be blocked.
    9. H: OTP I can name deathshadow and win. OTD you take karakas and win :) 3-3 --> 44
    10. Me, riding what I thought was a good deck that would not be played by others :)
    11. dte: You can allways cast crashing footfalls on my upkeep. Then you race me. 0-6 --> 44
    12. Serguei: OTP, I can name rabblemaster and win. OTD magus of the moon looses to chronomaton and meddling mage stops rabblemaster so that chronomaton can win. 6-0 --> 50
    13. maxx!: OTP, I can name scythe tiger FTW. OTP, i can play meddling mage naming Raze and chronomaton will win. 6-0 --> 56.
    14. FTW: Meddling mage names crashing footfalls and chronomaton + mage wins the race. 6-0 --> 62

    Total = 62 +3 bonus points.

    Please check my analysis as chronomaton allways induces hard combat math and I could have missed something.
    I thought that everyone would try to get 4 bonus points and would avoid top decks using city of traitors for example. So I listed all top decks from the rounds that were close to vanilla legacy 4CB and choose the one that seemed like good against everything but not overpowered and was using pieces that were not widely used... Unfortunately, there was a lotus petal in the deck of goblinsmashmaster :(

  12. #4512
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls

    20W 6D 0L, 66. And as only card not played by others, electrodominace for +1. I was good with the whole deck until the late ones submitted :)
    That should do it. Congrats on winning the season!

    I have to say I'm really glad you didn't just submit Aliban's Tower, Anaba Ancestor, Eron the Relentless, Ebony Rhino in order to pick up the 4 season points you needed.
    You gave the others a chance by playing actual magic, and still won convincingly.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  13. #4513
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton
    6-0, I am faster.
    48
    Doesn't meddling mage just name crashing footfalls FTW?
    If the card can't be played, it can't be cast either... or am i missing something?

  14. #4514
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Doesn't meddling mage just name crashing footfalls FTW?
    He can make them on your upkeep, so nope.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  15. #4515
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    He can make them on your upkeep, so nope.
    ah yes forgot about the instant speed :)

  16. #4516
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    That should do it. Congrats on winning the season!

    I have to say I'm really glad you didn't just submit Aliban's Tower, Anaba Ancestor, Eron the Relentless, Ebony Rhino in order to pick up the 4 season points you needed.
    You gave the others a chance by playing actual magic, and still won convincingly.
    I think this electrodominance deck is too good anyway. Even if he scored 0 bonus points because somebody would be playing the exact same deck, it would still be very good. Just looses to force of negation.
    congrats on the season win!

  17. #4517

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate
    That's me, hoping a near-pauper deck would be unique enough. It was, though I don't think it'll do all that well in the regular scoring.
    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    You have to Crime on turn two, and then play the land, which means I have to Vindicate your land right after. OTP I get to do this after I suspend my wincon, OTD I don't. But OTD I can keep my Vindicate in hand, stopping you from activating the land. This means if you go for your deck's idea, I win. So you don't. When you're OTP you can Raven's Crime me twice (second time using the discard a land option, dumping Hollow) before I can suspend Ephemeron, in order for me to be forced to discard either my wincon itself, or the mana to cast it. So with me OTP I win regardless of what path you choose, but OTD you Crime twice for the draw. 4-1
    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine
    OTD you make the guys, attack for 4 (16) / I play Spring. /Attack for 6 (10) / I play Desert, sus Ephem / Attack for 6 (4) / E3, Vindicate Vine / Attack for 2 (2) / E2, pass with Desert up / Attack, I kill one Walla with Desert, but that happens right after I die... So OTD you win, OTP I'm fast enough as you get one less swing in with Vine. 3-3
    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
    Same as Reep. 3-3
    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit
    Assuming this beats me. Don't feel like doing math, but Vindicate is slow and so is Ephem. This is a nice deck, by the way! 0-6
    Your pauper deck does better than this :)

    Vs Reep/alpha, you can draw on the draw if you do not suspend ephemeron: 16, spring, 10, desert, vindicate kill vine, desert will take care of the wallas.

    Vs H, you win OTP as bitterblossom is also slow: spring, land, desert suspend, bitter, bitter or mutavault is met by vindicate.
    OTD, land, spring, land bitterblossom, desert suspend ephemeron, token + attack with muta, vindicate muta and probably win as desert negates a bit bitterblossom, stinkdrinker cannot be cast, and ephemeron is bigger, but math would be needed.

    But vs jhhdk, it should be DD. Jhhdk can always keep everything in hand, and if you suspend ephemeron he makes you discard vindicate and win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    That should do it. Congrats on winning the season!

    I have to say I'm really glad you didn't just submit Aliban's Tower, Anaba Ancestor, Eron the Relentless, Ebony Rhino in order to pick up the 4 season points you needed.
    You gave the others a chance by playing actual magic, and still won convincingly.
    Thanks! It crossed my mind, but I didn't avoid it to give a chance to others, I just didn't want not to play :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I think this electrodominance deck is too good anyway. Even if he scored 0 bonus points because somebody would be playing the exact same deck, it would still be very good. Just looses to force of negation.
    congrats on the season win!
    That was my analysis, but it does not lose to force of negation, as I can play during my opponent's upkeep ;) (see vs FTW)

  18. #4518
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    That was my analysis, but it does not lose to force of negation, as I can play during my opponent's upkeep ;)
    ok, it's simply too good :)

  19. #4519

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    5. Wrath of Pie: Breeding Pool, Swarm Shambler, Sea's Claim, Pithing Needle

    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate WL
    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn WW
    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine WL
    4. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Pithing Needle WW
    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine WL
    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit LL
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens LL - In the end, you smashed with Goblins.
    9. silkster: Caves of Koilos, Detention Vortex, Encroach, Death's Shadow DL - Can't hate a land if you don't play it.
    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton WL
    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls LL - The better way to hate lands: don't play any!
    12. Serguei: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the moon, Goblin Rabblemaster LL
    13. maxx!: Tendo Ice Bridge, Scythe Tiger, Branchloft Pathway, Raze LL
    14. FTW: Force of Negation, Judge's Familiar, Razorverge Thicket, Crashing Footfalls LL

    8w1d = 25 points and 3 season points

    Ignoring the dumb kingmaking implications (see also why Monopoly is an awful boardgame), I just went with hating lands. I think the best part is that no one played City of Traitors, which probably means that I should have played it instead of off-brand Chronomaton.
    Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 05-03-2021 at 09:40 AM.

  20. #4520
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Your pauper deck does better than this :)

    Vs Reep/alpha, you can draw on the draw if you do not suspend ephemeron: 16, spring, 10, desert, vindicate kill vine, desert will take care of the wallas.

    Vs H, you win OTP as bitterblossom is also slow: spring, land, desert suspend, bitter, bitter or mutavault is met by vindicate.
    OTD, land, spring, land bitterblossom, desert suspend ephemeron, token + attack with muta, vindicate muta and probably win as desert negates a bit bitterblossom, stinkdrinker cannot be cast, and ephemeron is bigger, but math would be needed.

    But vs jhhdk, it should be DD. Jhhdk can always keep everything in hand, and if you suspend ephemeron he makes you discard vindicate and win.
    Ah, you're right of course. Changing my scores.

    Not sure about the jhhdk match though. He can't both Crime my Vindicate AND make the Emrakul. He needs Crime plus play both lands for the Emrakul to be able to land.
    So I think I should be able to sus Ephemeron OTP. OTD he can, as noted, double-Crime and I won't be able to sus the Ephem at all. So I think 4-1 is correct there.
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  1. PJim