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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #4541

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    If you RC yourself T2, you win T3.
    Their hand needs to be empty for HH to work.

  2. #4542

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhdk View Post
    Their hand needs to be empty for HH to work.
    True, you're right on the D then. Not very clever of me as it is exactly the same situation as with me, possibility to keep cards in hand and respond to crime if needed :/

    But it should be DD then, as being OTP does not really change anything.

  3. #4543

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    True, you're right on the D then. Not very clever of me as it is exactly the same situation as with me, possibility to keep cards in hand and respond to crime if needed :/
    Suppose I RC myself discarding Emry keeping HH in hand.
    I redraw my cards while opponent just passes every turn.
    Will my library always end up being {Emry, RC} after shuffle, no matter how many times I do it, or would I eventually end up with {RC, Emry} shuffle?

    EDIT:
    Answering my own question (Emphasis added):
    - Random effects always have the effect that is most favorable to the opponent.


    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    But it should be DD then, as being OTP does not really change anything.
    Huh!? I would assume removing a Basking Rootwalla would make quite a difference, since Vengevine can never be cast.

  4. #4544

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    My entry :
    12. Serguei: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the moon, Goblin Rabblemaster

    I should have definitively subitted Legion Warboss instead rabblemaster. The ability to block with token may have worked better for the final round. Otherwise Magus has done all the work



    1. Asthereal (TO): Ancient Spring, Desert, Errant Ephemeron, Vindicate
    Magus beats you both OTD and OTP

    WW 6PTs -> 6PTS

    2. jhhdk: Snow-Covered Swamp, Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    Magus beats you both OTD and OTP
    WW 6PTs -> 12PTS


    3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad , Basking rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla , Vengevine
    Magus Locks you OTP
    I loose OTD ( warboss would have probably win here)
    Magus beats you both OTD and OTP
    WL 3PTs -> 15PTS

    4. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Pithing Needle
    Magus beats you both OTD and OTP
    WW 6PTs -> 21PTS

    5. Wrath of Pie: Breeding Pool, Swarm Shambler, Sea's Claim, Pithing Needle
    OTP magus locks you.
    OTP let's play it

    T1
    WoP breeding pool shock you W18. you play Swarm Sambler
    S Ancient tomb S18 RabbleMaster 1token attack you you cannot block W17
    T2
    WoP passes
    S Rabble creates a second token. Attack with all Rable gets +2/+0
    You cannot block rabble otherwise you will die to the 2 remaining tokens, so you block a token and pump swarm Swarm 2/2. you take 5 from a token and rabble W12
    T3
    WoP passes, you cannot attack
    S Rabble creates a second token. Attack with all Rable gets +2/+0
    You cannot block rabble otherwise you will die to the 2 remaining tokens, so you block a token and pump swarm Swarm 3/3. You take 5 from a token and rabble W7

    T4
    WoP passes, you cannot attack
    S Rabble creates a second token. Attack with all Rable gets +2/+0
    You cannot block rabble otherwise you will die to the 2 remaining tokens, so you block a token and pump swarm Swarm 4/4. You take 5 from a token and rabble W2

    T5 you die
    I thought it will be closer

    WW 6PTs -> 27PTS


    6. alphastryk: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
    Same as for Reelcheep
    WL 3PTs -> 30PTS


    7. H: Concealed Courtyard, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Stinkdrinker Bandit
    Magus beats you both OTD and OTP
    WW 6PTs -> 36PTS

    8. GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens
    LL warboss would have probably win here

    36pts

    9. silkster: Caves of Koilos, Detention Vortex, Encroach, Death's Shadow
    Magus locks you OTD
    OTP you take the land and I cannot do anything
    WL 3PTs -> 39PTS

    10. Tylert: Karakas, Lotus petal, Meddling mage, Chronomaton
    LL

    11. dte: Simian Spirit guide, Simian Spirit guide, electrodominance, crashing footfalls
    LL

    13. maxx!: Tendo Ice Bridge, Scythe Tiger, Branchloft Pathway, Raze
    OTP Magus locks you
    OTD you will have to chump rabble and loose to the tokens created

    WW 6pts -> 45

    14. FTW: Force of Negation, Judge's Familiar, Razorverge Thicket, Crashing Footfalls
    OTP Magus locks you
    OTD rabble will race

    WW 6pts -> 51 pts

    Total 51 pts + 3 seasonal points

  5. #4545

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Huh!? I would assume removing a Basking Rootwalla would make quite a difference, since Vengevine can never be cast.
    They would discard vengevigne, keeping bazaar + 2 wallas, and cast everything on their turn.

  6. #4546
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    Hmm, I had this as you winning but I guess you don't have any profitable attacks either because Vengevine eats a goblin every turn. Will update.

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    They would discard vengevigne, keeping bazaar + 2 wallas, and cast everything on their turn.
    Cast on the end step actually to get the extra 2 damage on the first attack. (although it ends up being 4 attacks either way) This matchup is definitely very different than I thought since I somehow missed the looping. I *think* I can win the race if you jhhdk tries to get the loop going so this ends up a draw?

  7. #4547

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    Cast on the end step actually to get the extra 2 damage on the first attack. (although it ends up being 4 attacks either way) This matchup is definitely very different than I thought since I somehow missed the looping. I *think* I can win the race if you jhhdk tries to get the loop going so this ends up a draw?
    I think you are correct. You are saved by all randonmness favors opponent rule. If I could Raven's crime myself and end up with library = {Raven's Crime, Emry} I think I could tilt race in my favor. Will update scores to DD in my scores post.

  8. #4548
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    They would discard vengevigne, keeping bazaar + 2 wallas, and cast everything on their turn.
    I'm pretty sure I wasn't the one making that remark.

    But yes, the first card that they discard is Vengevine. Afterwards they still can still "go off", which jhhdk can't allow.
    If jhhdk would try this, he has to go for the turn 2 Crime yourself from the yard, discarding Hollow line, the deck will be Crime, Hollow, Emry.
    So that needs 4 turns to be able to draw them all and cast Emry, starting from turn 3. This is too slow.
    T2 use Bazaar, get Vine and 2x Walla. That wins in 4 turns, starting from turn 2 (4 haste+6+6+6 dmg), which is faster.

    So Crime on them turn 1 doesn't help. jhhdk needs to go for the original plan: play Swamp and wait. Threaten T2 Crime into Hollow the Emrakul.
    BazaarVine.dec can sit there and stop this by simply playing Bazaar-go and never allowing Hollow to be activated, turning it into a staredown.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  9. #4549
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Scores for the final round

    Rank. Player: score / SP / extra points / total SP for round
    1. dte: 66 / 5,1 / 1 / 6,1
    2. Tylert: 59 / 4,5 / 3 / 7,5
    3. GoblinSmashmaster: 54 / 4,2 / 3 / 7,2
    4. Serguei: 51 / 3,9 / 3 / 6,9
    5. silkster: 47 / 3,6 / 4 / 7,6
    6. FTW: 41 / 3,2 / 3 / 6,2
    7. Reeplcheep: 34 / 2,6 / 0 / 2,6
    7. alphastryk: 34 / 2,6 / 0 / 2,6
    9. maxx!: 31 / 2,4 / 4 / 6,4
    10. Wrath of Pie: 28 / 2,2 / 3 / 5,2
    11. jhhdk: 21 / 1,6 / 4 / 5,6
    11. PJim: 21 / 1,6 / 3 / 4,6
    13. Asthereal (TO): 19 / 1,5 / 4 / 5,5
    14. H: 15 / 1,2 / 4 / 5,2
    (This is in order of match points - extra SP counts for the season.)


    FINAL SCORES FOR SEASON 15

    1. dte: 62,4 - Congrats to dte on winning this one!
    2. FTW: 56,4
    3. Tylert: 56,3
    4. Serguei: 53,5
    5. Wrath of Pie: 51,8
    6. maxx!: 48,9
    7. silkster: 48,2
    8. Asthereal (TO): 42,7
    9. GoblinSmashmaster: 39,8
    10. H: 39,1
    11. Reeplcheep: 39
    12. jhhdk: 30,6
    13. alphastryk: 25,7
    14. PJim: 17,8


    So as expected, fte takes the crown. Second place went to FTW by the smallest of margins, overtaking Tylert by just 0.1 SP.

    I'll be setting up the next season in the next few days. Expect regular updates, as I might be asking you guys some questions or votes. So stay tuned!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  10. #4550

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    So Crime on them turn 1 doesn't help. jhhdk needs to go for the original plan: play Swamp and wait. Threaten T2 Crime into Hollow the Emrakul.
    BazaarVine.dec can sit there and stop this by simply playing Bazaar-go and never allowing Hollow to be activated, turning it into a staredown.
    It's worth mentioning that the "random effects always favors opponent"-rule really hurts me this round.

    If shuffling RC and Emry could eventually lead to a {RC, Emry} permutation I think I could've won.

  11. #4551
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    GG Dte!

    damn, that second place for 0,1 point :)
    @asthereal: did you do the math without taking into account rounding? :)

  12. #4552
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    damn, that second place for 0,1 point :)
    @asthereal: did you do the math without taking into account rounding? :)
    I didn't do the math. Google Spreadsheets did.

    The rules state that season points are rounded to one decimal every round.
    You're welcome to check every round to see if you would beat FTW without this rule, though.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  13. #4553

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I am weirdly very proud of this win, much more than most real paper tournaments wins :)

    It was very fun to explore a full new rule and meta each week. I just looked at the full season, to see if I could state which rounds I liked or disliked more, and realize that I actually enjoyed all of them, there was a lot of variety.

    After having a full season of each mode, I think I like the bannathon principle slightly more, with a clearer vue of the expected metagame, and a perfect handling on the banlist.

    But I am looking very much forward to see what Asthereal is cooking up for the next season!
    And thank you very much for the past ones :)

  14. #4554
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    I am weirdly very proud of this win, much more than most real paper tournaments wins :)

    It was very fun to explore a full new rule and meta each week. I just looked at the full season, to see if I could state which rounds I liked or disliked more, and realize that I actually enjoyed all of them, there was a lot of variety.

    After having a full season of each mode, I think I like the bannathon principle slightly more, with a clearer vue of the expected metagame, and a perfect handling on the banlist.

    But I am looking very much forward to see what Asthereal is cooking up for the next season!
    And thank you very much for the past ones :)
    Enjoy, you deserve it!

    And there's a spoiler about next season way back. I leaked some plans before the start of season 9.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  15. #4555

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'm just happy to escape eighth place.

  16. #4556
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    You're welcome to check every round to see if you would beat FTW without this rule, though.
    That's even worse :)
    GG FTW

  17. #4557
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Fun season for sure! I'm not nearly as clever as some of the folks here but I enjoy the new rules every week to mix it up.

    Looking forward to whatever format is coming next season.

  18. #4558
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    I am weirdly very proud of this win, much more than most real paper tournaments wins :)
    Congrats! It was very well deserved. You came up with consistently strong decks for a wide variety of fun formats, predicting the meta well.

    @Tylert: close race! GG

  19. #4559
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    BIG PLANS FOR SEASON 10

    For our tenth season, I would like to combine two things:
    1- Deviant Legacy, part 3 - 15 rounds of weirdness, just like last season.
    2- Bannathon, starting with the current banned list, and additionally banning the top 5 scoring decks each round (except for basics, which are safe from bannings).
    Now, I know the bannathon thing will turn out weird, because many cards are only relevant in specific Deviant rounds. But it seems fun to me. Yet I am but one voice.

    SO I WANT TO PUT TWO THINGS UP FOR VOTE

    I created a Google Form where you can vote. Link is at the bottom of this post.
    -First: yes or no for the bannathon as described above.
    -Second: Please vote your three least favourite Deviant ideas from below. I will gather the two most voted against, and remove them from the plans for the rounds of the season.


    THE IDEAS FOR DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 3

    A- Fateful Hour: Players start at 5 life. Temporary banning: Chancellor of the Dross
    B- Persistence: All creatures have Persist. Effects that prevent counters being placed on creatures don't cause creatures to fail to return to play when their Persist ability resolves.
    C- Sudden Death: After 10 turns (from both players), the player with the highest life total wins the game.
    D- Magical Metal: When an artifact enters the battlefield, it's controller may add one mana of the color of his or her choice to their mana pool.
    E- The Long Haul: Players start at 100 life. Effects that would make you win the game immediately instead do nothing.
    F- Duplicity: Whenever a nontoken creature enters the battlefield, its controller creates a token thatís a copy of that creature.
    G- Sphere of Resistance: All spells cost one additional generic mana to cast.
    H- Vials Galore: Each player starts the game with an Aether Vial emblem in play that has "During your upkeep, you may put a Vial counter on this emblem." and has "(0): Put a creature from your hand with converted mana cost equal to the number of Vial counters on this emblem onto the battlefield. You can use this ability only once per turn, and then not anymore until your next turn." Temporary banning: Suppression Field
    I- Pillow Fight: Creatures have indestructible and hexproof.
    J- Cornucopia: Non-land cards in each deck must in total contain at least 3 different colored mana symbols. Hybrid mana symbols count for 1.
    K- Go Big Or Go Home: All non-land cards in your deck must have mana value 3 or greater.
    L- Antagonism: At the beginning of each playerís end step, that player loses 2 life unless one of their opponents lost life that turn.
    M- Peacekeeper: Creatures can't attack.
    N- The Wheel: If a card would be put into a player's graveyard from anywhere, instead that card is put on the bottom of that player's library.
    O- Phyrexian mana: All colored mana symbols in costs can also be paid with 2 life.
    P- Mythic Mayhem: All cards in your deck must be Mythic Rare, and have only been printed as Mythic Rare.
    Q- Temporary Solitaire: Each player plays their first five turns in single player mode (with no opponent to interact with or to win the game from). Afterwards both players join the head-to-head game and continue with the then current game state for both players. Note: You can lose the game in single player mode. If you do, you will join the head-to-head having lost the game, so you would immediately lose the head-to-head game before any player would get priority.

    While voting for ideas for the round, please think mostly about whether you feel that would be a fun round to play. We can always slightly reword a round, or ban an oppressive card, if needed. It's about, you know, optimizing fun.

    Please vote here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...vvRcw/viewform


    NOTE: If you are interested in joining 4CB but haven't posted here yet, please reply here before voting. I wil only count votes from regulars and new players who have announced they want to join.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 05-06-2021 at 02:39 AM.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  20. #4560

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    A couple of questions/suggestions before they'd be controversial:

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    B- Persistence: All creatures have persistence. Effects that prevent counters being placed on creatures don't cause creatures to fail to return to play when their persistence ability resolves.
    The ability is just Persist (Kitchen Finks). Is the second half of this not true anyway? Googling suggests it is, but I don't know.

    E- The Long Haul: Players start at 100 life. Effects that would make you win the game immediately instead do nothing.
    Is this intended to stop effects that win the game at the Upkeep? I suspect it is and think it does, but perhaps worth specifying.

    H- Vials Galore: Each player starts the game with an Aether Vial emblem in play that has "During your upkeep, you may put a Vial counter on this emblem." and has "(0): Put a creature from your hand with converted mana cost equal to the number of Vial counters on this emblem onto the battlefield. You can use this ability only once per turn, and then not anymore until your next turn." Temporary banning: Suppression Field
    Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker can shut this down too, so long as it shares a name with a card, so probably should be banned too (or the emblem renamed).

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