For some reason, for me it works with 1/4 of the cards, but unfortunately only the ones I know best :/Originally Posted by Asthereal
Poor timing, as we're now constantly playing cards I need to look up.
And of course it is a round where a lot of maths & tricks are involved...
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton, Forge Devil, Karplusan Wolverine
Kill all my stuff. 0-6
2. dte: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathspore Thallid, mesmeric fiend
I don't think you can beat chronomaton, but I haven't done the math. 6-0?
3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton, Mistblade Shinobi, Wingcrafter
me, trying something spicy.
4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
You have no answer to chronomaton. 6-0
5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker
OTP I set up my bounce engine too fast. OTD You can at least trade fireslinger for the wingcrafter, and then trade cratermaker for the chronomaton. 4-1.
6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike
OTP t1 chronomaton wins. OTD You can't answer wingcrafter or race without tapping out at least once on my turn, giving me a slot to resolve chronomaton. 6-0
7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
LD 0-6. Thought about this deck but losing to eldrazi OTD & vial seemed bad.
8. silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares
I can't connect 0-6.
9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
0-6
10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah
I setup my bounce engine too fast. 6-0
8W 1D for 28/54.
This may not be detailed enough, but initial analysis looks like I lose every match.
Astherea:l Chrona and Karplusan wolverine can team up and trade against Tormented Pariah. Forge devil kills Ironfang and eventually wins. 0-6
dte: Mesmeric Fiend steals Tormented pariah/Rampaging werewolf before i can cast it. Deathspore kills Village Ironsmith/Ironfang. 0-6
reeplcheep: Mistblade bounces Pariah, Chronomaton outgrows ironfang ande eventually wins. 0-6
Wrath of pie: sculler steals pariah, leech beats ironfang. 0-6
H: Forcespike counters pariah. duelist beats Ironang. 0-6
Maxx: Cleansing wildfire makes Pariah uncastable. Sliver deals with ironfang. 0-6
Silkster: Swords to Plows takes pariah, Assailant deals with ironfang 0-6
Tylert: By the time i play Pariah, Chrono is large enough, that wretched banquet can target him. After that Chrono dominates Steelfang. 0-6
Incredible... this has been a long time since I look at posted results and sees me winning :)
You did not check the alphastryk matchup (Not saying that you are winning thought) :)
Asthereal's messy mess for round messy:
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton, Forge Devil, Karplusan Wolverine
That's me, not sporting boring FoW for once. Let's see how this goes.
2. dte: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathspore Thallid, mesmeric fiend
After many maths, we concluded this ends up 3-3
3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton, Mistblade Shinobi, Wingcrafter
Shinobi requires ninjitsu to enter play, so I open with Wolverine, in order to block your first dude. I'll keep Devil in hand to kill Chrono as soon as it enters, and if you give me time, I'll cast or grow my own Chrono. This line should give me the win in both games, I think. 6-0
4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
Chrono wins this one by itself. Luckily, as the rest of my team was not designed to handle X/2+ guys. 6-0
5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker
I'll need Devil to kill the Fireslinger, so you don't play it and neither can I. Chrono beats Cratermaker, unless you sac it to kill Chrono. So you do that, and I have one threat left for the win. 6-0
6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike
This one looks complicated, but it's really not. You need Force Spike to stop Chrono, which means you can't ever use Factory for attack or defence, or use Spike on one of the other two threats. You can EOT cast the 1/2 flyer, but that boy loses the race to my two other threats. But your 1/2 flyer also can't stay back for defence, as I'll only attack with Wolverine, which would trade with the Duelist if you block. The only way for you to profitably stop me from just taking the win with Wolverine is to wait until I attack with it, then cast Duelist and block and kill it. But then post combat you're tapped out and Chrono lands again. I think you don't have a way to stop me from just killing you with Wolverine and if needed Devil (which I'll cast after you land Duelist, so I don't have to target my own guy). 6-0
7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
Wildfire, nice. I think that stops Chrono quite well. I can't just sit there either, as you just kill me with Factory. I guess I lose this. 0-6
8. silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares
I'll Devil your Assailant, so you don't play that and we keep these in hand. You Plow my Chrono, which gains me a life, after which I threaten to win the race with Wolverine, so you keep Brass Man back and we draw twice? 2-2
9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
You Banquet my Chrono. I Devil your Chrono. You Unearth your Chrono and then your Chrono does not block my Wolverine until it's big enough. You keep growing it until it's 10/10, after which you start attacking ftw. 0-6
10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah
Ironsmith I can kill with Devil, so I'll keep that back until you cast it. Wolverine is quite bad against the big boy, so I'll just cast Chrono and grow it ASAP. Math below. I'm just in time to grow Chrono big enough to block and kill Pariah. 6-0
Total: 35 points, unless I missed relevant things in the match against dte
Against jhhdk
j: Farm
A: Chrono
j: Garisson
A: Chrono 2/2
j: Farm, cast Ironsmith (or nothing, if so I grow Chrono to 3/3)
A: Devil, kill Ironsmith
j: Cast Pariah
A: Chrono 3/3 (PS I do this on your turn, but it's easier to chalk it up here), Pariah flips (or Chrono 4/4, Pariah flips anyway)
j: attack for 6, block and chump with Devil (or if no Devil, A=14)
A: Chrono 4/4 (or 5/5)
j: attack, A=14 (or A=8)
A: Chrono 5/5 (or 6/6)
j: attack, A=8 (or A=2)
A: Chrono 6/6 (or 7/7)
j: attack, A=2 (or don't attack, as Pariah would die to the 7/7)
A: Chrono will become 7/7 now, so you can't attack anymore.
From here, I'll keep growing Chrono to 20/20 at end of your turn. When I untap with the 20/20 Chrono, I'll attack and you have to chump and then die.
Against dte
EDIT: After exploring many lines, we found the following:
OTD no matter what I do, I'm a turn too slow.
OTP I cast Chrono and the proceed to keep growing it at end of dte's turn until it's 7/7.
From there I start attacking with it, and post combat, I cast Wolverine as a defender.
This line allows me to use my mana optimally, and ends in me winning by the skin of my teeth.
Math shown in the post at the start of the next page.
3-3
Last edited by Asthereal; 11-29-2020 at 04:21 AM.
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2. dte: Mishra's Factory (fac - two card with the same initials), Swamp, Deathspore Thallid (DT), mesmeric fiend (MF)
Among the many who have identified chronomaton and mishra's factory as great cards against the tiers 0 deck... which no one played :)
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton (c), Forge Devil (FD), Karplusan Wolverine (KW)
tough
Me OTP
T1 land, chrono
T2 MF>FD, KW
T3 DT, c2 EoT, attack with KW (d19)
T4 DT(1), c3 EoT, attack with KW (d18)
T5 DT(2), c4, attack with KW (d17)
T6 DT(3), c5, attack with KW (d16)
T7 DT(4), and two options for A:
if chrono starts attacking, attack, token block chrono and kill KW (also I can block chrono with everything and kill KW with the token, which grants the draw, but I think I have the win).
T8 DT(2), attack (A16), attack (d11)
T9 token, attack (A12), attack (d6)
T10 DT(1), attack (A7), attack (d1)
T11 DT(2), keep token to block, attack (A3), A cannot attack
So on T7, A does not attack but grow chrono (c6)
T8 DT(5), and if chrono attacks, block with a token and kill KW
T9 DT(3), attack (A16), chrono attacks (d10), token
T10 DT(1), attack (A11), chrono attacks (d4)
T11 DT(2), attack with keeping token to block (A7), chrono attacks and token chump
T12 DT(3), attack (A3), A cannot attack so he should not attack T8
But then A growing chrono does not shorten the clock comparing to the token making ability, so I win OTP.
Me OTD:
T1 chrono, land
T2 KW, attack (d19), MF>FD
T3 c2 EoT, KW attacks (d18), DT
T4 c3 EoT, KW attacks (d17), DT(1)
T5 c4 EoT, KW attacks (d16), DT(2)
If c starts attacking T6:
T6 attack (d11), DT(3), attack (A16)
T7 attack, token blocks c and kill KW, DT(1)
T8 attack (d7), DT(2), attack (A12)
T9 attack (d3), DT(3), attack with MF and DT (A8)
T10 c cannot into fac + token, DT(1), c5 EoT
T11 c cannot attack into fac+token+DT, DT(2), c6 EoT
T12 if c attack, the token blocks, then fac+DT+MF puts A to 4, and the fresh token could block and d wins.
So c does not attack T6. If c starts attacking T7 instead:
T6 DT(4), c5 EoT, token
T7 attack c + KW (d10), DT(2) attack (A15)
T8 attack c + KW (d4), DT(3) attack (A10), token
T9 attack/block with token, DT(1) attack with keeping a token in defense (A6)
T10 attack/block with token, DT(2) attack with keeping fac in defense (A4)
T11 attack/block with fac, DT(3) attack (A2)
T12 if C attacks, he lose and is eventually overrun by tokens.
I think the later chronomaton attacks, the better it is for me.
So I'll write 6-0 for now, but I probably overlooked some routes. I just cannot write them all :)
6
3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton (c), Mistblade Shinobi (MS), Wingcrafter (W)
Argh, chrono maths again :/
Me OTP
T1 land, if you play chrono:
T2 land, MF>W, you cannot attack or I trade and win from there with fac, so c2 EoT (my turn 3, so I cannot attack)
T3 DT, if you attack I trade with both and win from there with fac, so c3 EoT (my turn 4, so I cannot attack)
T4 DT (1), you still cannot attack or I trade with fac, so c4 EoT (my turn 5, so I cannot attack)
T5 DT (2), you still cannot attack or I trade with fac+DT, so c5 EoT (my turn 6, so I cannot attack - I'll stop writing that)
T6 DT (3), token, you still cannot attack or I trade with fac+DT+token, so c6 EoT
T7 DT(1), now I cannot profitably trade on the attack, but you would lose the race by needing 4 attacks as well as me, but I can create a token that would block. If you ninjutsu you lose all your tokens, and I kill MS with a token. So you don't attack and c7 EoT.
T8 DT(2), if you attack I think I race: d13
T9 DT(3), token, attack (R15), c attack, token blocks
T10 DT(1), attack (R10), c attack (d6)
T11 DT(2) attack for 4 with a token in defense (R6), c attack, token blocks
T12 DT(3), token, attack for 4 with a token in defense (R2), c cannot attack.
Going for a turn 2 clock with a 10/10 chrono does not help: I get one more token in these 3 turns, and so do more damage before chumping.
Win OTP
Me OTD, you play c or W T1 and ninjutsu MS by turn 2. Then if I play MF, you can always trade with MS, and then you play W.
T3 W attack (d19), c2 EoT, DT
T4 W attack (d18), c3 EoT, DT(1)
T5 W attack (d17), c4 EoT, DT(2)
T6 W+c attacks (d12), DT(3), token takes out W, I cannot race so I stay to block
T7 c5 EoT, DT(2)
T8 c attacks (d7), DT(3), token --> I'll not make token fast enough so you win
Lose OTD
3-3 for now, but than can easily be wrong...
9
4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
6-0. when you are OTP, whether you take out DT or MF you lose, when I am OTP, MF takes sculler.
15
5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker
When you are OTP, you play fireslinger and win with it.
When I am OTP, MF takes firelinger T2, then you play cratermaker. T3 I play DT, if you kill MF with cratermaker, then fac vs fireslinger is a draw. If you do not kill MF, counters go to DT without the situation changing, so you have to take the draw.
1-4
16
6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike
OTP or OTD, you have to spike MF T2, and DT runs with the game - force spike is still a bad card ;)
6-0
22
7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
Completely lose to that. The Wildfire in my gauntlet was Tinder wall & chronomaton, which was a draw-factory, drawing vs FoW and all removal. I guess both Wildfire and chronomaton are toast after this week. Even if I played factory, I didn't think of pairing it with cleansing wildfire, and the sliver is the perfect complement as second threat + pinger. Great deck!
0-6
22
8. silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares
6-0. MF takes StP, DT + fac handle the rest easily.
28
9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
6-0. This one is the MU I spent the time doing the complicated math fully before submitting. MF always takes banquet.
math with T OTP and me OTD:
T1 c, land,
T2, c2 EoT, MF>banquet
T3 c3 EoT, DT
T4 c4 EoT, DT(1)
T5 c5 EoT, DT(2)
T6 attack (this is the most profitable with a 4 turns clock, it never gets better) (d15), DT(3), token, attack (T16)
T7 att (d10), DT(1), attack (T11)
T8 att (d5), DT(2), attack while keeping a token in defense (T7)
T9 attack/kill token, DT(3), token, attack (T3)
If you do not attack T6
T6 c6 EoT, DT(3), token
T7 c7 EoT, DT(1)
T8 attack (d13), DT(2) attack (T15)
T9 attack (d6), DT(3), token n2, attack (T10)
T10 attack/kill token n2, DT(1), keep a token in defense and attack (T6)
T11 attack/kill token, DT(2), attack with MF and fac (T3)
if T attack, d block with DT and fac+MF wins.
So I win even OTD
6-0
34
10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah
6-0. MF takes Pariah, DT Ironsmith.
40
A 40 with plenty that could change, as the maths are gruesome. But the deck performed overall better than expected.
I know I did not cover all possible angles, why did everyone had to play chronomaton?
I'm a bit sad FoW wasn't played, another round without anything very crazy possible next week :/
I just finished calculating my results, and then realized that Bladeback Sliver somehow can’t target creatures. I swear he could the other night when I sent this deck in.
Don’t have time to figure out my results again right now, so I’ll just sulk about my mistake until then. Hopefully Cleansing Wildfire carries hard enough on its own.
maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
Disagreements with dte and Wrath of Pie, but I'd be happy to have gotten those wrong, since they both have me winning 6-0 :)
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton, Forge Devil, Karplusan Wolverine
OTP I blow up your land after you play a 1/1, then win with a 2/2. OTD you either get two 1/1s or a 2/2 Chronomaton, but my Sliver plus Factory should beat either. 6-0
2. dte: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathspore Thallid, mesmeric fiend
OTP I get one of your lands before you can do anything. OTD you get to play a creature first. Fiend taking Sliver is a losing line, since I can Wildfire you and then race with Factory. You can Fiend away my Wildfire, though, and then I can't shut off your Factory, or profitably attack into it with my 2/2s. Deathspore Thallid will kill my Sliver before it kills you, and then you can build up Saprolings to win. 3-3
3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton, Mistblade Shinobi, Wingcrafter
Similar to my match against Aesthereal, OTP I CW your land after you play a 1/1 then win easily. OTD you can stick a 2/2, or two flying 1/1s, or Mistblade Shinobi before your land gets destroyed. Two 1/1s or a 2/2 loses to Sliver plus Factory, and Shinobi can’t race Factory. 6-0
4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
Easy win OTP. OTD is tricky. If your play is Leech first, then CW cuts off Sculler, and you can’t attack into my board because I can double block, pump Factory, and have one surviving threat even if you pump the Leech. And if you don't attack, I can just ping you to death with Sliver, so Leech first is out. If you lead with Sculler instead, you can take CW, but I still don’t think you can attack into me and win the race. It’s a lot more complicated though, so I’ll need to work through the lines. I think your best line might be to take Sliver with Sculler. That leaves Sculler vs Factory, and nobody can attack. If I attack, you can trade, then we both have 1 land and no plays. 4-1?
5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker
OTP I blow up a Mountain for an easy win. OTD you get either Cratermaker or Fireslinger, and neither alone can beat Sliver and Factory. 6-0
6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike
CW always eats Force Spike. This is hard. I can't block Fairie, but you can't stop Sliver pings. The Factories can't profitably attack into each other, but I can double attack once to get some extra damage through. This is really close, but I think I take it. Math below. 6-0
7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
This is me : ]
8. silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares
CW keeps you from casting Plow, so at best you end up with both your creatures and no land. You can't attack through my Factory, so I can just sit and ping you with Sliver for 20 turns. 6-0
9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
I kill your Swamp before you can cast either Sorcery, so that leaves a 1/1 or 2/2 Chronomaton against my team, and that’s not enough. 6-0
10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah
OTP you lose your land before playing anything. OTD you can sac Tinder Farm to get Village Ironsmith in play, but even after he flips, I can double block to kill him and keep a threat, and if you don't try to race you'll die to Sliver pings. 6-0
6+3+6+4+6+6+6+6+6 = 49
vs H (me OTD)
H: Factory
m: Factory
H: Island
m: Cleansing Wildfire (Force Spike)
H: Pass
m: Bladeback Sliver (EOT Faerie Duelist)
H: Attack with Faerie (even though my Factory is tapped, I would trade Sliver with your Factory and race you easily) [m=19]
m: Ping with Sliver [H=19]
H: Attack with Faerie [m=18]
m: Ping with Sliver [H=18]
...
H: Attack with Faerie [m=2]
m: Ping with Sliver [H=2]
H: Attack with Faerie [m=1]
m: Attack with Factory and Sliver [H]
Thanks! I've had the same Tinder Wall variant in my gauntlet for a few weeks, but kept telling myself to wait until FoW got banned. Even then it felt weak just due to sandbag removal, and I wanted to beat FoW this week, so I started looking at manlands and ended up with this. Still can't believe that I totally misread Bladeback Sliver, but it looks like it didn't cost me too dearly (just a win OTD against you if my results are right).
Me: silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton, Forge Devil, Karplusan Wolverine
Chronomaton eats Swords, leaving you at 21. I hold the Assailant to protect it from the Devil, so you hold the Devil. Since you can't profitably block, Brass Man gets to attack first. Swords puts you at +1 life, and the Wolverine can always push the last point of damage through, so I can't win a race. You can take down the Brass Man if it blocks, but then the Assailant and the Devil will trade.
2 points
2. dte: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathspore Thallid, mesmeric fiend
0 points
3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton, Mistblade Shinobi, Wingcrafter
I have answers for your creatures, so you can't Ninjitsu, so it's 3 resources to 2.
6 points
4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
0 points
5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker
OTP, I can Swords the Cratermaker and race. OTD, I think I'm still fast enough by exactly 1 turn/dmg. The one hit from the Assailant plus the activation to kill the Assailant cancel with the life from Swords, but I still get to attack first.
6 points
6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike
I can force a draw by killing the Duelist on sight and either leading with Brass Man or casting it after any Factory attack. I think I can't push through even on the play: if I try to get in with Assailant, you can play Duelist and force Swords; If I try to get in with Brass Man, I have to spend mana to untap letting you play Duelist with Force Spike back up.
2 points
7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
If I hold my land, I lose to Factory. If I try to cast spells, I can get both creatures down OTP, but it's still not enough to get through a 3/3 blocker.
0 points
9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
Swords is a lucky answer, and you can't kill both of my creatures.
6 points
10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah
Pariah plows the fields, and the Assailant stops the Ironsmith if it ever attacks or blocks.
6 points
28 points, though I'm not too confident. I hope this holds, at least.
I figured I'd feel silly this round, playing counters to decks that no one would play. I just hoped a 1/3 would be awkwardly large enough to scrape a few wins. 28 feels lucky. As Asthereal says, messy round is messy.
I've had Tinderwall + Chronomaton in my gauntlet for a while, but after getting Utopia Mycon banned, I couldn't find anything good to go in that last slot. Somehow, I forgot that Chronomaton fits in there.
And yet, we both could have played craziness this week! But yeah, I'm sad too.I'm a bit sad FoW wasn't played, another round without anything very crazy possible next week :/
Why do I have to lead on chronomaton? If I lead on wingcrafter you either play MF taking MS (and I get to resolve a flying chronomaton) or MF taking chrono (and you are forced to chump or I get it back anyways) or you play the thallid (and I can to resolve a flying chronomaton). With a 1/1 you must kill with a saroling sac I don't see how I lose the race.
Fortunately for me you're right, I missed that the sliver does not ping creatures.
Quite possible that I missed lines, let's try:
Scenario 1, d chump.
T1 land, W
T2 land, MF>chrono, attack & chump, chrono
T3 DT, c2 EoT
T4 DT(1), c3 EoT
T5 DT(2), c4 EoT
T6 DT(3), token, c5 EoT
T7 if c attack d can chose draw by blocking, or let it pass ftw:
T7 DT(1), c attack (d15)
T8 DT(2), attack (R16), attack (d10)
T9 DT(3), token n2, stay ready to block ftw (DT left), c6 EoT
T10 DT(1), c7 EoT (draw if attack)
T11 DT(2), attack (d3)
T12 DT(3), token, attack (R11), c attack/kill token
T13 DT(1), attack keep 1 token to block (R7), c attack/kill token
T14 DT(2), attack keep 1 token to block (R4), c attack/kill token
T15 DT(3), token, attack keep the token to block (summoning sick anyway) (R3), if c attack/kill token he dies, if he does not he dies to more tokens.
So T7 is c growth, as attacking is losing:
T7 DT(1), c6 EoT
T8 DT(2), c7 EoT (you have to grow to 7 to gain a turn of clock and prevent blocks, a 6/6 chrono makes no sense)
T9 DT(3), token n2, attack (d13)
T10 DT(1), attack (R15), attack (d6)
T11 DT(2), attack keep 1 token to block (R11), c attack/kill token n2
T12 DT(3), token n2, attack keep 1 token to block (R7), c attack/kill token n2
T13 DT(1), attack keep 1 token to block (R4), c attack/kill token n1
T14 DT(2), attack keep DT to block (R2), if c attack/kill DT, fac wins.
d wins if T starts with W or with c.
I think I still win OTP. I lose MF for the clock, but you chrono is delayed by a turn and I do not take extra damage from W, so it does not change a thing. And if you ever ninjutsu the chrono, the loss of counters is too much to recover for you.
The change vs maxx! would put me at 43.
I think I found a line where I get a win on the play.
Please check my line in my post above yours to see if I missed options for your side.
I'll check me on the draw later.
EDIT: Checked on the draw. I'm too slow there.
EDIT2: Actually, OTP I can probably skip casting Wolverine altogether, gaining me a turn to smack face with Chrono. Might have to redo the math again, unless you agree that my OTP line wins, in which case being a turn faster doesn't matter for the result.
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I was like "can't beat land destruction" and missed that I could actually cast something on the play.
Also, I think I lost the Thanksgiving matchup.
Only casting chrono would not work, that I checked, as it becomes the same as Tylert's, which I win both OTP and OTD.
Let's check your line:
Up to here, agree.
Here I disagree: and if no blocks?
A: Attack, d=10
d: Thallid C2, attack for 5, A=15
A: Attack, d=3
d: Thallid C3>C0 create 1/1 token, attack for 5, A=10
A: attack, token blocks c and kills Wolverine
d: Thallid C1, keep a token for block, attack for 4, A=6
A: attacks, token dies.
d: Thallid C2, keep Thallid for block, attack for 3, A=3
If A attacks, he dies to factory + fiend.
Let me know if you disagree, but I would stick to WW, 6-0 for me.
Then you have to kill my Wolverine before your attack, otherwise I block and trade with Fiend and get my Devil back.
Ugh, this is hard. Where is FTW when you need him?
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I though Wolverine was attacking, but you're right, it makes more sense to keep it to block.Then you have to kill my Wolverine before your attack, otherwise I block and trade with Fiend and get my Devil back.
Ugh, this is hard. Where is FTW when you need him?
But then it also does not matter that the token is not summoning sick, so d can cast DT 1 turn later, and hit for 2 instead with fac on T3:
would become:
Against dte
Math time!
dte has me losing both, so I'll check me on the play first:
A: Land, Chrono
d: Land
A: Wait
d: Cast Fiend, exile Devil, EOT Chrono 2/2
A: Attack for 2, d=18, cast Wolverine
d: attack with fac, A=18
A: Attack with Wolverine, d=17
d: Thallid, wait (if you attack, you lose a guy), EOT Chrono 3/3
A: Wait
d: Thallid C1, wait, EOT Chrono 4/4
A: Wait
d: Thallid C2, still have to wait, EOT Chrono 5/5
A: Wait (or attack, not sure whether this matters as I need 3 hits of 6 or 4 of 5)
d: Thallid C0, token, still wait, EOT Chrono 6/6
A: Attack with Chrono, block Chrono with token, then sac to kill Wolverine, no damage
d: Thallid C1, attack with Fiend, Thallid and Factory, A=14
A: Attack, d=11
d: Thallid C2, attack with Factory, Thallid & Fiend, A=10
A: Attack, d=5
d: Thallid C3, attack with the three again, A=6
A: Attack, token chump
d: Thallid C1, attack with Fiend and fac, A=3
A loses.
I just changed the numbers, -2 life for A, -1 counter on DT, and the turns 3 and 4 from the quote (and the end obviously).
Still do not know if it is optimal play for both, but your turn now :P
Sure of one thing though: if played with cards without come-back, the result would have been a head or tails, as no one would have figured it all out :P
QUOTE: dte said things.
I apologize. My conference is done, and I am now drunk. Normal replies will resume tomorrow. Hopefully.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
Celebrate well the end of the conference!QUOTE: dte said things.
I apologize. My conference is done, and I am now drunk. Normal replies will resume tomorrow. Hopefully.
Online conferences gala dinners are still worth drinks, enjoy!
Congrats! This can certainly wait a day or two, I think.QUOTE: dte said things.
I apologize. My conference is done, and I am now drunk. Normal replies will resume tomorrow. Hopefully.
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