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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #4681
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Do we agree that if I orim's chant in responce to electrodominance, Pjim can't cast wheel of fate in response?
    I forgot that the card had to be "cast" and that orim's chant controls if Pjim can or cannot cast a spell :)
    The casting is part of the resolution of Electrodominance, so if you Chant in response to casting Electrodominance, he indeed won't be able to cast the card.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  2. #4682
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Asthereal's scores for the Phyrexian round:

    1. Asthereal (TO): Meddling Mage, Dovin's Veto, Counterflux, Death's Shadow
    That's me, sporting uncounterable counters and the biggets cheap dude I could find. And I of course forgot about discard combo...

    5. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Lifeforce, Nightveil Predator, Frilled Mystic, Bloodhall Ooze
    Leyline stops my counter suite. You keep Mystic behind to counter Mage, and Shadow gets stopped by Predator while Ooze grows to become bigger than Shadow. 0-6


    14. Serguei: Cunning Nightbonder; Spell Queller; Frilled Mystic; Leyline of Lifeforce
    You counter my guys and my countersuite does a grand total of nothing at all. 0-6
    LLofLifeforce works for both players. So you should be 3-3 vs Gob (mage naming predator) and 3-3 or 1-4 vs Serguei.

  3. #4683
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    LLofLifeforce works for both players. So you should be 3-3 vs Gob (mage naming predator) and 3-3 or 1-4 vs Serguei.
    How does he win vs Gob?
    T1 A: Mage naming Predator. [A=16] Can't cast Death's Shadow yet (14 life is too high).
    T1 G: 1/1 Ooze. Pass [G=18]

    T2 A: Still can't cast Shadow. If Mage attacks, Frilled Mystic flashes in to block and kill it, so that's a bad idea. Pass
    T2 G: Ooze gets +1 from Leyline. 2/2. Don't attack.
    ...

    T20 G: Ooze is 20/20. Trouble.

    Ooze grows +1 per turn from just Leyline, +2 if Predator is out too. Both Ooze and Predator are problems and Mage can only stop 1. That's how I lose to this too.

  4. #4684
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    How does he win vs Gob?
    T1 A: Mage naming Predator. [A=16] Can't cast Death's Shadow yet (14 life is too high).
    T1 G: 1/1 Ooze. Pass [G=18]

    T2 A: Still can't cast Shadow. If Mage attacks, Frilled Mystic flashes in to block and kill it, so that's a bad idea. Pass
    T2 G: Ooze gets +1 from Leyline. 2/2. Don't attack.
    ...

    T20 G: Ooze is 20/20. Trouble.

    Ooze grows +1 per turn from just Leyline, +2 if Predator is out too. Both Ooze and Predator are problems and Mage can only stop 1. That's how I lose to this too.

    If gob reveals leyline, play mage (predator), counterflux, veto, then a shadow 9/9.
    Gob lay dudes, can let one attack in but is at 1 life. Then mage can block mystic or ooze if any attacks come in.
    If no leyline is revealed, mage on predator wins it as well.

    Edit: missed the you don't control.

    So mage on predator. If G plays ooze, counterflux plus dovin, then shadow 9/9 should do the same.

  5. #4685
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    If gob reveals leyline, play mage (predator), counterflux, veto, then a shadow 9/9.
    Gob lay dudes, can let one attack in but is at 1 life. Then mage can block mystic or ooze if any attacks come in.
    If no leyline is revealed, mage on predator wins it as well.

    Edit: missed the you don't control.

    So mage on predator. If G plays ooze, counterflux plus dovin, then shadow 9/9 should do the same.
    Interesting, I didn't consider you could still cast counters on uncounterable spells just to burn life. But passing the turn due to Counterflux's "you don't control" could be enough of a difference.

    T1 A: Mage on Predator. (Can't counterflux or Veto it) Pass. [A=16]
    End step flash in Mystic [G=12]. A does Counterflux + Veto [A=6]
    T1 G: Attack with Mystic. Mage can't block yet or Predator stops Shadow. Cast Ooze [G=10, A=3]

    T2 A: Cast 12/12 Shadow [A=1]. (If Mage attacks, Ooze + Mystic attack through Shadow for lethal)
    T2 G: 2/2 Ooze. Pass

    Now if Shadow ever attacks, Mystic chumps and 3/3 Ooze attacks back. Mage is forced to block, then G casts Nightveil to stop Shadow while Ooze grows to 20/20.
    If Shadow doesn't attack, Ooze grows to 20/20.
    G wins.

    If A doesn't cast Veto, being ahead 4 life with a smaller Shadow could make enough of a difference for Shadow to race.
    But what if G doesn't play Ooze or Mystic? With 0 plays A cannot cast the counters or make a Shadow.
    If Meddling Mage ever attacks, G flashes in Frilled Mystic to block & trade. A will get Shadow but G will get Predator + Ooze to win.
    So Mage can't attack the empty board.
    DL 1-4?

  6. #4686

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    LLofLifeforce works for both players.
    Wow! Never realized that, Thanks for the notice bcz I grab an additional win :D


    Leyline of Lifeforce, Nightveil Predator, Frilled Mystic, Bloodhall Ooze

    vs

    Esper charm, Funeral Charm, Funeral Charm, Frilled Mystic

    Leyline in play
    Upkeep Esper Charm, if you keep non flash creature, I follow with funeral charm discard. If you keep mystic, double funeral charm will kill it and I can play my mystic safely
    Leyline in hand
    Upkeep I try to make you discard your hand, If you counter with Mystic, I counter with my Own

    WW

  7. #4687

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Last edited by jhhdk; 06-01-2021 at 03:41 AM.

  8. #4688
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhdk View Post
    OTD, I can play bolas with Orim's chant as protection. You exile force spike to Bolas (because it's useless for the combo). then on your turn, I can use my second chant so you can't do anything and on my turn I can bolas you again to exile a piece of the combo and win.
    OTP it's perhaps a little bit more tricky.
    If I orim's chant during your upkeep, you can counter, I can use my second chant. On my turn, I play bolas and you have to exile a piece of the combo. so you don't try to counter.
    So, I orim's chant, you do nothing. On my turn, I orim's chant to play bolas, you exile force spike (or you counter, that's the same). then if you discard emrakul to raven's crime and play hollow, I can use bolas on my turn and you have to exile hollow.

    WW for me, LL for you.

  9. #4689
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by mattamort View Post
    Wow! Never realized that, Thanks for the notice bcz I grab an additional win :D


    Leyline of Lifeforce, Nightveil Predator, Frilled Mystic, Bloodhall Ooze

    vs

    Esper charm, Funeral Charm, Funeral Charm, Frilled Mystic

    Leyline in play
    Upkeep Esper Charm, if you keep non flash creature, I follow with funeral charm discard. If you keep mystic, double funeral charm will kill it and I can play my mystic safely
    Leyline in hand
    Upkeep I try to make you discard your hand, If you counter with Mystic, I counter with my Own

    WW
    Leyline of Lifeforce works for both players but for creatures only. The discard spells are counterable.

    Pretty sure what happens here is you try to discard the hand, uncounterable flash Mystic counters something, then your two Mystics trade in combat. I don't see a way for either of you to prevent that.

    e.g. Upkeep Esper Charm. Frilled Mystic counters Esper Charm. If you use double Funeral Charm to kill Mystic, your Mystic loses to Ooze & Predator so that's a bad line for you. Instead you would double Funeral Charm to discard the Ooze and Predator, then your Mystics trade.
    DD 2-2

  10. #4690

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    4. PJim: Savage Summoning, Meddling Mage, Electrodominance, Wheel of Fate
    This felt good in my mind, but probably isn't when most people are playing at instant speed.

    1. Asthereal (TO): Meddling Mage, Dovin's Veto, Counterflux, Death's Shadow // 6-0, Mage names Death's Shadow, and wins against a Mage without a +1/+1 counter.
    2. Wrath of Pie: Ancient Tomb, Loxodon Smiter, Loxodon Smiter, Bloodline Keeper // 0-6, Either creature wins through Mage
    3. RoosterCocoa: High Market, Nether Spirit, Counterflux, Spell Queller // 6-0, I name Nether Spirit, and a 3/3 Mage wins through Spell Queller
    5. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Lifeforce, Nightveil Predator, Frilled Mystic, Bloodhall Ooze // 2-2, Mystic has to come down before I Electrodominance, or Mage will lock it out, so we end up with a 3/3 and a 3/2 staring down.
    6. alphastryk: Leyline of Sanctity, Dark Ritual, Wheel and Deal, Aura Mutation // 2-2, 3/3 Mage stares down 4 1/1s
    7. jhhdk: Raven's Crime, Howltooth Hollow, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Force Spike // 6-0, Mage names Emrakul
    8. FTW: Savage Summoning, Meddling Mage, Frilled Mystic, Narset's Reversal // 0-6, You copy my Summoning to get Mage in first.
    9. Reeplcheep: Blood Celebrant , Aetherflux Reservoir, Pact of Negation , Cavern Harpy // 6-0, My deck works as intended for once.
    10. mattamort: Esper charm, Funeral Charm, Funeral Charm, Frilled Mystic // 0-6, That's a lot of instant discard.
    11. dte: Savage Summoning, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, esper charm, fork // 0-6, You can Fork my summoning to ensure Lavinia gets in first.
    12. silkster: Savage Summoning, Meddling Mage, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Abrupt Decay // 0-6, The threat of Atraxa forces bad lines.
    13. Tylert: Nicol Bolas, Dragon God, Orim's chant, Orim's chant, The tabernacle at pendrell vale // 1-4, OTD both Chants are needed to lock me out, but they do and Bolas resolves. OTP, if you don't Chant in my upkeep, I play Mage normally and win, so you must. This means you only have one Chant for your turn, which you have to use after I cast Savage Summoning, which allows me to Wheel for the draw. (If Mage is allowed to land in either case, I name Chant, which then ensures Wheel will resolves and Tabernacle wouldn't be a problem)
    14. Serguei: Cunning Nightbonder; Spell Queller; Frilled Mystic; Leyline of Lifeforce // 0-6, Can't stop flashy creatures.
    15. maxx!: Savage Summoning, Meddling Mage, Esper Charm, Mardu Charm // 0-6, You can force me to try first.
    16. H: Chancellor of the Dross, Smallpox, Phyrexian Obliterator, Counterspell // 6-0, The deck works as intended for a second time.

    35 points.

    I'm disagreeing with Tylert, but I think my line is right.

  11. #4691
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I agree with PJim

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    4. PJim: Savage Summoning, Meddling Mage, Electrodominance, Wheel of Fate
    13. Tylert: Nicolas bolas, dragon god, Orim's chant, Orim's chant, The tabernacle at pendrell vale

    4. PJim: If you do nothing, I cast bolas and win. So you try to use summoning, I use orim's chant in response and you wheel of fate to avoid loosing but I can play my second orim's chant in response. it's the same thing OTP and OTD. 6-0 --> 24
    When you're OTD PJim has the option to just main phase cast Meddling Mage normally. To prevent that, you have to upkeep Orim's Chant first. Then on your turn you only have 1 Chant so you can't interrupt both Savage-Mage and Electro-Wheel.

    WD 4-1

  12. #4692

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    OTD, I can play bolas with Orim's chant as protection. You exile force spike to Bolas (because it's useless for the combo). then on your turn, I can use my second chant so you can't do anything and on my turn I can bolas you again to exile a piece of the combo and win.
    OTP it's perhaps a little bit more tricky.
    If I orim's chant during your upkeep, you can counter, I can use my second chant. On my turn, I play bolas and you have to exile a piece of the combo. so you don't try to counter.
    So, I orim's chant, you do nothing. On my turn, I orim's chant to play bolas, you exile force spike (or you counter, that's the same). then if you discard emrakul to raven's crime and play hollow, I can use bolas on my turn and you have to exile hollow.

    WW for me, LL for you.
    I think you already posted that. I was going to fill it in, but thanks anyway.

  13. #4693
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PJim View Post

    I'm disagreeing with Tylert, but I think my line is right.
    Yeah, you are right.
    That makes me wish I had played 1 orim's chant and 1 silence... it's the second match up where playing orim's chant over silence has costed me points :)

  14. #4694
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    No results yet from Serguei and H, and jhhdk is unsure about these matches as well, afaik.
    I did some napkin math and figured out that Serguei wins both unsure matches, which elevates his scores to bannable levels.
    So for now things look as follows:

    1. Tylert: 66 - 4,4
    2. maxx!: 65 - 4,3
    3. silkster: 64 - 4,3
    3. Serguei: 64 - 4,3
    5. FTW: 62 - 4,1
    6. dte: 60 - 4
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: 48 - 3,2
    8. mattamort: 40 - 2,7
    9. Wrath of Pie: 36 - 2,4
    10. Asthereal (TO): 35 - 2,3
    10. PJim: 35 - 2,3
    12. RoosterCocoa: 27 - 1,8
    13. H: 25 - 1,7
    14. alphastryk: 15 - 1
    14. jhhdk: 15 - 1
    14. Reeplcheep: 15 - 1

    With the following bannings:
    Abrupt Decay
    Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
    Cunning Nightbonder
    Esper Charm
    Frilled Mystic
    Leyline of Lifeforce
    Mardu Charm
    Meddling Mage
    Nicolas bolas, dragon-god
    Orim's chant
    Savage Summoning
    Spell Queller
    The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    I'll allow a few hours for people to comment on my findings. If nobody has improvements on my estimates for these matches, I'll apply these bannings for the bannathon and open round 3 later today.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  15. #4695
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Do we all agree that next round has very few playable cards?
    I mean, with the absence of any mana and cards that were printed at other rarities it looks as if we're gonna all play the same decks...
    I was the one who submitted the idea I think, but never really looked into the available cards until today and my original idea was any mythic card could be used... it opens more space.
    Sorry for the late rant.

  16. #4696
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Do we all agree that next round has very few playable cards?
    I mean, with the absence of any mana and cards that were printed at other rarities it looks as if we're gonna all play the same decks...
    I was the one who submitted the idea I think, but never really looked into the available cards until today and my original idea was any mythic card could be used... it opens more space.
    Sorry for the late rant.
    I have been against this for a while. Main argument is that even crap like Delver of Secrets is Mythic in a certain vague set, and deciding which obscure expansions count and which don't is rather complicated.

    I'm willing to go down to must be Mythic in a set and cannot be uncommon or common in another. Gatherer is leading.
    Who's in favor of this change? Who's against?
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  17. #4697
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I am against.
    I think it would be hard to figure out which cards have exactly these criteria. Illegal decks are no fun.

    The mythic round is very narrow, and probably with a lot of similar decks, but I would say so be it. It could be interesting to see what a very restrictive cardpool brings.

  18. #4698
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I also think we should just leave it as it is. In round Chronomaton it turned out we didn't all play Chronomaton nor was it broken or banworthy. The appearance of restrictiveness doesn't guarantee restrictive outcomes.

  19. #4699
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    No results yet from Serguei and H, and jhhdk is unsure about these matches as well, afaik.

    1. Tylert: 66 - 4,4
    2. maxx!: 65 - 4,3
    3. silkster: 64 - 4,3
    3. Serguei: 64 - 4,3
    5. FTW: 62 - 4,1
    6. dte: 60 - 4
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: 48 - 3,2
    8. mattamort: 40 - 2,7
    9. Wrath of Pie: 36 - 2,4
    10. Asthereal (TO): 35 - 2,3
    10. PJim: 35 - 2,3
    12. RoosterCocoa: 27 - 1,8
    13. H: 25 - 1,7
    14. alphastryk: 15 - 1
    14. jhhdk: 15 - 1
    14. Reeplcheep: 15 - 1

    I'll allow a few hours for people to comment on my findings. If nobody has improvements on my estimates for these matches, I'll apply these bannings for the bannathon and open round 3 later today.
    Some of the amended results hadn't been updated into the spreadsheet yet. I hadn't added mine (waiting on others to post) and it looks like others were missed as well. I updated the spreadsheet with the latest results for everyone. Some scores changed. In particular, the bannings would change.

    Without Serguei's post or all of jhhdk's results there may be future changes as well.

  20. #4700

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    I am against.
    I think it would be hard to figure out which cards have exactly these criteria. Illegal decks are no fun.

    The mythic round is very narrow, and probably with a lot of similar decks, but I would say so be it. It could be interesting to see what a very restrictive cardpool brings.
    The opposite is true, there could be some illegal deck because some cards have been reedited as rare in a random set. Does anyone know how to check a card is legal in the format or not? I dont know if it is part of the game, to analyze all the mythics and check if they have not been reedited as a rare, but it is seems rather boring :(.

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