How does T2 Smallpox+Nether Spirit beat you when T1 Pox+Nether Spirit can't?
Either I missed an extra win here, or you should win one vs dte.
When you're on the draw, you can do nothing. dte has to cast Smallpox before you have any lands in play. You can then discard Isochron and play Sheltered Valley and Mishra's Factory. If Spirit attacks, Factory attacks back and Sheltered Valley should give you the edge in the race.
Edit: Interesting. If you play no lands, dte could do nothing until you're both at 2 life, then Smallpox skips his lethal trigger and puts you to 1 and you would lose on your turn. To avoid that you still have to act first even when dte is OTP, so he can remove 1 land to turn off your deck while Spirit races the Valley.
When we are both at 2 life, Pox also takes 1 life each so I could do the same thing. WW for me?
I need to rethink some of my other matchups I thought I lost OTP by acting first.
OTP you still can't play Isochron before Grief takes both spells from hand and the 4/3 Menace should race Factory + Valley. LL?
3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
I expected a bunch of pox or smallpox so I played the anti-discard aggro deck. The reach also helps my decks a bunch.
With the help of the round rule I kill a goldfish t3 OTP to beat the more Durdley decks.
1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
LL ?
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
WW 6-0 what I was trying to beat.
4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
I goldfish on t3 WW 6-0
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
I have too much of a life total head start once we start racing. WW 6-0
6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
WW?
7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
I can only get you to 7 before you stabilize. LL 0-6
8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
WW
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
The plus 1 counter means I lose OTD. WL 3-3
10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
You can’t daze vengevine. WW
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
What I was aiming to beat. WW
12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
Once we are set up each person nets -1 life each turn. But I get a 3 damage head start even OTD. WW 6-0
13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
OTP I goldfish you to 1 so you die to either the round rule or my vengevine. OTD you stabilize on t4 at 5. WL 3-3
14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
OTP I am to fast for you to deploy everything. OTD you are able to pox me just in time to stabilize at 5. WL 3-3
15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6
16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley LL 0-6
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated WW 6-0
21 W 13 L for 63/102?
me: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
Again, this is a deck from earlier in this thread. If I don't get rid of Noxious Revival
sooner due to discard, I can cast it targeting a Lotus Bloom between when I cast
Barren Glory and my next turn to empty my hand. In particular, I goldfish on T5.
63 points
1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field WW 6-0
Since Inkmoth Nexus will have infect, it won't cause me to lose any life.
It also can't sufficiently poison me in time, so it doesn't affect this matchup.
Thus, we start with you playing T1 Sleeper Agent. On each of my first 4 turns,
I take 2 damage from Sleeper Agent lose 2 life to the round rule.
On your T5, I pay 2 life for Noxious Revival. That leaves my at 2 life.
In my T5 upkeep, I control both triggers, so I put the Barren Glory trigger on top.
That wins for me before the Sleeper Agent trigger would kill me.
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity WW 6-0
Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Nether Spirit doesn't have haste, so Nether Spirit attacks at most 4 times before my T5.
On each of my first 4 turns, I lose 2 life to the round rule.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine WW 6-0
I see that we disagree here. I believe you missed
that I can obNoxiously Revive Vengevine.
If you do nothing, then I use Noxious Revival on a Lotus Bloom in the
end step just before my T5, in which case I win without any attacks.
Thus, we start with with you T1 tapping Bazaar of Baghdad.
With both madness triggers still on the stack or in response to Vengevine's trigger
or anytime in-between, I cast Noxious Revival targetting Vengevine.
Since Bazaar of Baghdad will already be tapped and you can't cast anything else,
that completely stops Vengevine, so you just get two 1/1s.
They don't have haste, so they deal at most 8 damage before my T5.
I paid 2 life for Noxious Revival, and I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival this is me
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven WW 6-0
I show that I get WW even without Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar.
For this showing, Duress taking Noxious Revival only helps me.
Duress is a Sorcery, so if it takes anything else before I cast Barren Glory,
then in the end step I cast Noxious Revival targeting whatever I discarded.
In such cases, I draw whatever I discarded before my next turn's main phases,
so that does not slow me down. After I cast Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
is the only thing Duress could take, and as I mentioned, that only helps me.
Thus, for this showing, Duress doesn't help you.
On your T1, I can lose 1 life to Cauldron Familiar, but I can't
lose more before your T2, since your creature doesn't have haste
and you can't cast both parts of your combo in the same turn.
For each of your 4 turns after that, I take 1 combat damage from
Cauldron Familiar and lose 1 life to it re-entering the battlefield.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger WL 3-3
On T1, Village Messenger attacks for 1. Noxious Revival won't have a target until T4,
so I can't stop your creature from transforming during your T2 upkeep.
On T2 and T3, Moonrise Intruder attacks for 2 each, but you can't deal
any more damage during those turns, since either Keldon Megaliths
will be tapped or Frostwalk Bastion would be summoning-sick.
On T4, Keldon Megaliths would deal less damage to me than Frostwalk Bastion,
so Frostwalk Bastion and your other creature attack, dealing 3 or 4 damage to me.
At this point, you have dealt at most 9 damage to me. I lose 8 life
to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me when I am OTP.
When I am OTD, you attack me on T5 too, dealing at least 3 damage to me.
At this point, you have deal at least 11 damage to me,
and I have lost 8 life to the round rule.
That totals at least 19 life lost, so I can't afford Noxious Revival,
which means I lose no later than my T5 end step.
7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar WL 3-3
when I am OTP:
I lose 1 life on your T1, since Cauldron Familiar doesn't have haste.
On your T2, I take 1 combat damage from Cauldron Familiar
and lose 1 life to it re-entering the battlefield.
For each of your 2 turns after that, I take 1 combat damage from
Cauldron Familiar and lose 2 life to it re-entering the battlefield.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
when I am OTD:
If I don't cast Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar, then
before my T5, I will lose 12 life instead of 9 life to your stuff
(as opposed to the round rule and paying for Noxious Revival).
In that case, since I would also lose 8 life to the round rule,
I would lose the game before my T5.
If I use Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar on T3 or later, that saves me 2 life
from 2 Cauldron Familiar entries on that turn, but no more, since you still get that
turn's attack and for your next turn, you get an additional entry instead of an attack.
That results in me losing 10 life to your stuff before my T5.
If I use Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar on T2, then my life-loss pattern is
[T1: 1 from entry] , [T2: 1 combat] , [T3: 2 from entry] , [T4+T5: 2 each from entry] .
That results in me still losing 10 life to your stuff before my T5.
In either case, I also pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival and lose
8 life to the round rule, so I still lose the game before my T5.
8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit WW 6-0
Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Nether Spirit doesn't have haste, so Nether Spirit attacks at most 4 times before my T5.
On each of my first 4 turns, I lose 2 life to the round rule.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon LL 0-6
You play Swamp, then pitch Vampire to evoke Grief
and put the EtB trigger above the evoke trigger.
Before the Evoke trigger resolves, but either before or after
the EtB trigger resolves, you cast Undying Evil targeting Grief.
Grief takes Noxious Revival, and Grief is not yet in a graveyard,
me casting Noxious Revival instead of discarding it doesn't help me.
Grief returns as a 4/3, so it can deal at least 12 damage to me before my T5.
I also lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, so you win.
10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim LL 0-6
You cast Daze on Barren Glory. Me getting it back doesn't help me,
since I won't be able to cast it again, so your 1/1 wins for you.
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit WL 3-3
For my initial post, I had confused Pox with Smallpox.
I realized this when I read through FTW's results-post.
when I am OTD:
You cast T1 Pox. That makes me discard 2 cards, so I can't win.
You discard Nether Spirit, which then wins for you.
when I am OTP:
I suspend both Lotus Blooms on T1, so I won't have to discard more than 1 card to Pox.
Noxious Revival would be the last card to leave my hand,
so Pox can't make me discard Barren Glory.
Smallpox also doesn't affect artifacts or enchantments on the battlefield,
so it can't stop Barren Glory that way either.
If you do nothing before your T4 end step, then I
cast Noxious Revival that step, to win with 10 life left.
If you cast Nether Spirit before that step, then it only gets 3 attacks before my T5.
Those would cause me to lose at 6 life. I pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival
and lose 8 life to the round rule, so I would win with 4 life left.
If you cast Pox before your T4 end step, then I discard.
You get Nether Spirit back on T2, so it only gets 2 attacks before my T5.
In that case, Pox makes me lose 7 life, Nether Spirit makes me lose 4 life,
the round rule makes me lose 8 life, and I discarded Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress WW 6-0
Urborg vs Swamp doesn't matter here, so this works the same as me against alphastryk.
13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix WW 6-0
You cast Isochron Scepter on your T2, and don't have mana to
activate it that turn, so you only get 3 activations before my T5.
Those activations only deal 9 damage to me.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs WW 6-0
Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Before my T5, I lose at most 3 life to Sanctum of Stone Fangs.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 13 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6
You win on your T3. (It would be T4, but the round rule speeds things up.)
16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley WW 6-0
Before my T5, I lose at most 3 life to Sanctum of Stone Fangs.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 13 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6
You win on your T3. (It would be T4, but the round rule speeds things up.)
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated LL 0-6
You cast Karn Liberated on T3, so you can exile
Barren Glory from the battlefield if I cast it.
Otherwise, you use his +4 on your turns 3,4,5,6.
The result of that is, on T7, Karn has exiled Barren Glory and has at least 15 loyalty.
Thus, you get his ultimate on T7, which is before you could lose to the round rule,
and restart with Barren Glory on the battlefield under your control.
This time, you use his +4 on T3 and T4, and exile your
own lands followed by Karn himself on your turns 5,6,7,8.
That lets you win on T9, still before you could lose to the round rule.
Last edited by Phasmoid; 06-24-2021 at 10:36 AM. Reason: fixed due to 1 and stayed with other
My deck
15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
Why? As DTE, I thought Grief would be way more popular. In particular because it seems to be a strict upgrade to Unmask which was banned the round before.
I built several leyline deck but none of them was really convincing and too narrow except Leyline of the meek / Leyline of Sanctity / great furnace / rebirth.
Then, I looked at option available to beat greaf. Land.dek was good at it, but felt a little bit weak as well. DS was not too bad but I was not convinced as well as it loses vs Grief OTP.
Then, I realize we could just ignore Grief by playing 3 Chancellor and thought this deck would be popular as there was several occurences last season.
So, I decided to take back and play Rebirth / Furnace in order to beat the mirror since :
- Grief + Field of Despair was also beating the 3*chancellor version OTD
- Little bit slower vs control but bigger vs other creatures deck
- I was not expecting duress to be popular
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
WL - I like this synergy
3 Pts
Turn 1, 4Token M20-Y18
Turn2 Sea M20-Y16
Turn3 Attack M20-Y8
Turn4 Field M20-Y6
Turn5 Nothing M18-Y6
Turn6 Sleeper Agent M18-Y4
Turn7 M14-Y4 M14-Y2 M10-Y2 M10-Y0
On the draw, I am too slow.
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity WL
WW - I am too fast
9Pts
3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
WW
15 Pts
OTP
Turn1, 4 Token M20-Y18
Turn2, Get your 3 creatures in play. If you attack with VV, I trade with two tokens and I win the race, so you dont. M20-Y16
Turn3, Nothing M18-Y16. Now, if you dont dont attack, you will lose the race, so you have to. I double block Vine, eat a token if you attack and win from there.
OTD
Turn1, Get your 3 creatures in play, attack with VV block with token M20-Y18
Turn2, Create 3 tokens M18-Y18
Turn3 is similar scenario to OTP, I eat VV if vengevine with two token. And Antagonism will kill you first.
4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
WW - I had a similar deck with triple bloom + Worldfire and it was not kept because too slow
21 Pts
I kill on T3 in gold fish
OTD
T1 Y18-M20
T2 Y16-M20
T3 Y14-M20
T4 Y6-M20
T5 Y4-M20
T6 -4-20
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
WL
24 Pts
OTD you grab rebirth, GG
OTP you can not really block profitably and I am too fast
6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
WW - I am too fast
30 Pts
OTD
Turn1 Mountain Messenger M20-Y18
Turn2 Attack, play 3 Token M20-Y16
Turn3 Megalith M20-Y14
Turn4 Messnger flips, Attack with 4 Tokens, One trade M20-8
And you die turn 6 or 8
7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
WW - I am too fast
36Pts
You drain for +2/-2 per turn while I deal 6 damage
8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
WW
42 Pts
OTD
Turn1 Stronghold M20-Y18
Turn2 Attack with one token, 3 more are played M20-Y16
Turn3 Play Pox, discard Spirit, me sac a token, play Valley M20-Y16
Turn4 Attack with 3 Token M20-Y10
Turn5 +1Life, returns Spirit M20-Y9
TurnXX I play the waiting game M18-Y9 -> M18-Y8 -> M16-Y8 -> .... -> M6-Y2 and I attack with two tokens for the win
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
WL
45 Pts
OTD, you grab rebirth game over
OTP
Turn1, 4 Token M20-Y18
Turn2, two options Grief 4/3 or Vampire + Evil for next turn
If you play grief, I play the waiting game and I win
If you play vampire. M20-Y16
Turn3, Attack with 4 Tokens M20-Y8
And you life total is too low
10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
WW
51 Pts
Chancelor wins alone
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
WW
57Pts
OTP
Turn 1, 2/2 attack, 3 2/2 Are played M20-Y18
Turn2 Pox, Spirit in the Grave, 2 2/2 are sacrified M13-Y12
Turn3 2 2/2 attack N13-L8
Turn4 Spirit come back, waiting game from there and I win
Similar OTD
12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
WL
60 Pts
See alphastryk
13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
WL
63 Pts
OTP
Turn1 M20-Y18
Turn2 Valley M20-Y16
Turn3 M20-Y8
Turn4 +1Life, Play Scepter M20-Y7
Turn5 Attack for 8
OTD
Turn1 Valley M20-Y18
Turn2 1 2/2 Attack, 3 2/2 played M20-Y16
Turn3 +1 Life, play scepter M20-Y15
Turn4 Attack for 8, M20-Y7
Turn5 +1 Life, Shoot a token +3Life, -2Life Emblem, M20-Y9
Turn6 Attack for 6, M20-Y3
Turn7 +1 Life Shoot a token +3Life, -2 Life Emblem, M20-Y5
Turn8 Attack for 4, M20-Y1
Turn9 +1 Life Shoot a token +3Life, -2 Life Emblem, M20-Y3
Turn10 Attack for 2, and you win, a close one
14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs]
WW
69 Pts
OTP
Turn1 2/2 attack, 3 tokens are played M20-Y18
Turn2 Maze, M20-Y16
Turn3 Attack, Maze prevents one M20-Y10
Turn4 Pox too slow and you can not cast sanctum anymore. Sanctum too slow as well
OTD
Turn1 Maze M20-Y18
Turn2 3 Tokens, maze prevents M18-Y18
Turn3 Play Sanctum M18-Y16
Turn4 Attack with 4 tokens M18-Y8
Turn5 M17-Y9, Play Pox, Token is sacced M16-Y8
Turn6 Attack with 3 tokens M16-Y2
Turn7 M15-Y3
Turn8 Attack with 3 tokens gg
16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
LL
69 Pts
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
WL the Mirror
72 Pts
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
WW - Too slow
78 Pts
A good choice for this round, triple chancellor was probably even better since chancellor and creature deck did not show up.
I can't believe GoblinSmashmaster missed a chance to smash with goblins.
Pox is a different card from Smallpox.
Smallpox only discards 1 and takes 1 life, so you can discard or cast Noxious and keep Barren Glory to win.
Pox takes 1/3 of your hand and 1/3 of your life, rounded up.
When I go first, you still have Lotus Blooms in hand (4 card hand) so Pox discards 2 cards from you. You can't win after discarding 2.
When you go first, you can suspend the Lotus Blooms first (2 card hand) so Pox can only discard 1 card but still takes 6 life from you. Nether Spirit is too slow, so you win at 2 life.
Edit: I see you already noticed and corrected it.
I was counting on him to validate my choice
Once again, just to be a little bit more precise, we discussed all the possible decks and ended up with a meta of:
Lands deck (Something like maze of ith, mishra's factory, sheltered valley and leyline of sanctity)
Control with energy field or island sanctuary + valey and something to deal damage (Megaliths)
Discard (Grief + ephemerate or reanimate, we skipped undiying evil but that was a nice find Gobelinsmashmaster, but our 4th card was force of despair against goblin decks)
Ultra aggro (Triple chancellor plus leyline of the meek or chancellor + rebirth).
Death shadow + discard + removal.
One fun deck that was not mentionned but was probably too bad: Triple lotus bloom + worldfire (only wins vs control and lands).
Then, we made separate choices.
I personnaly liked the fact that those triple gobs could nearly ensure each time a win OTD and i really thought they would be popular... it's indeed a real surprise to see goblinsmashmaster playing grief over gobs. So i choose the slower version that produces 4 bodies to win against the Ultra-ultra aggro version of 3 chancellors...
Thinking about jhhdk's submission makes me realize that, for round-rules,
I don't know if this thread has decided how it would handle the situation of
an infinite loop, with each player taking infinitely many full turns
where
1 of the players is taking optional actions and the other is doing nothing
.
Specifically, this could have happened for
jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
hypothetical: Cave-In, Cave-In, Pyrokinesis, Pyrokinesis
.
I will refer to hypothetical as NPD, for "no permanents deck".
NPD can cast Cave-In on T1 and T2, to take a lead in life due to the round rule,
so jhhdk needs to restart the game before jhhdk loses to the round rule.
jhhdk can do that by using Karn's +4 on T3 and T4 and the
ultimate on T5, since jhhdk loses at most 12 life in the meantime.
Karn's rulings state "The player who controlled the ability that
restarted the game is the starting player in the new game.",
so after a restart, jhhdk would lose to the round rule if no one does anything.
Even if NPD still does nothing, the only way jhhdk
can avoid that is by restarting the game again.
This would result in an infinite loop where each player takes infinitely many full turns,
during which NPD is doing nothing and jhhdk is taking optional actions.
Would jhhdk have to break that loop, and thereby lose?
EvilGriefmaster Results for Round "I missed Goblins again :("
This round we play Antagonism: At the beginning of each player’s end step, that player loses 2 life unless one of their opponents lost life that turn.
(This triggered ability has no controller or target, so effects that care about either will do nothing.)
1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
Grief the field 6-0
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
Vampire undies 3-3
3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
Grief beats revenge 3-3
4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
Grief over glory 6-0
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Grief is familiar 6-0
6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
Grief the village 6-0
7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
Grief in the oven 6-0
8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
Grief smallpox 6-0
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
That's me causing grief with nongoblins ???
10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
Grief leaves you dazed 6-0
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
Grief pox 3-3
12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
Grief is familiar 6-0
13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
Grief the scepter 6-0
14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
Grief is amazed 3-3
15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
Grief before rebirth 3-3
16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
Grief the field 6-0
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
Grief before rebirth 3-3
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
Grief before liberation 6-0
Total: 84 points
Last edited by GoblinSmashmaster; 06-24-2021 at 07:36 PM.
Fun round, I originally thought to go with Energy Field or Island Sanctuary, but realized Energy Fields doesn't stop the round rule and Sanctuary is narrow.
1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
OTP Duress takes Energy Field. OTD I *think* because Inkmoth doesn't deal cause loss of life that I win the races against both Inkmoth and Agent with the combination of Cat+Oven and the round rule? Will revisit math on this. Tentative WW
6-0
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
Leyline beats Duress, but my combo is too slow to beat Smallpox OTD. WL
3-3
3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
You're too fast. LL
0-6
4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
Great choice as it races the round rule and beats single discard including Smallpox. LL
0-6
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
My Cat+Oven deck
6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
Duress, is a blank, and I think you just have too many threats. LL
0-6
7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
The Cat+Oven mirror! Double Oven is faster, so I have to Duress one of yours. After that it turns into a staring / draining contest. DD
2-2
8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
OTP I can Duress Smallpox, but I can't ever win the race. LL
0-6
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
OTP I can Duress Undying Evil, leaving you with the choice of Vampire or evoking Grief. If you play Vampire, you lose to Cat + Oven. Instead, you can evoke Grief for the draw. OTD You can evoke Grief and get it back with Undying Evil, and kill me with Grief. DL
1-4
10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
OTP Familiar wins the race, OTP I can't beat Daze + Claim. WL
3-3
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
OTP I can Duress Ritual for the win, OTD I can't beat Pox. WL
3-3
12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
The true Cat+Oven mirror! Whoever is OTP can jam Oven to protect it from Duress. WL
3-3
13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
Duress can always take Scepter, and Cat + Oven races Factory + Valley because I can always block Factory + sacrifice to Oven, then rebuy Cat on my turn to avoid the round rule. WW
6-0
14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
OTP, I can Duress Sanctum and play Cat, and the Cat's ETB trigger combined with the round rule wins it. OTD, I have to Duress Smallpox, but it becomes a race between your turn 2 Sanctum and my turn 3 Cat+Oven. From there, we trade life draining forever for the draw. WD
4-1
15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
OTP I Duress Rebirth for the win, OTD I'm too slow. WL
3-3
16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
Duress is always able to take away Sanctum, and Energy Field doesn't stop the round rule. WW
6-0
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
OTP I Duress Rebirth for the win, OTD I'm too slow. WL
3-3
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
Duress Karn. WW
6-0
Total: 49 points if my math is right
Is this another case of Asthereal loses to own round rules?
Energy Field doesn't prevent the life loss
Sleeper Agent damaged happens on the wrong player's turn to prevent the trigger
Inkmoth Nexus damage is replaced by poison counters, so it doesn't get sped up by the Antagonism clock, and I think the life loss might still happen but not 100% sure
Thanks for doing such a great job organizing 4CB though! These deviant rounds have been very creative and fun.
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