I do not get this.Originally Posted by FTW
Silk does not care about nest, because moon beats it?
Silk OTD:
T1 land
T1 land, token 1/1.
Now Rooster can play a nest, but the moon next turn will not let it make squirrels.
6. RoosterCocoa: Havenwood Battleground, Rishadan Port, Squirrel Nest, Earthcraft
1. Asthereal (TO): Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Rustvale Bridge
Your 4/4s are way too fast for me. LL
2. dte: Blooming Marsh, Chatter of the Squirrel, Pendelhaven, Mind rake
OTP I get Squirrel Nest, which you can't beat. OTD you get a 1/1 before I can Port you, so I lose. WL
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Culling the Weak, Paradox Zone, Khalni Garden
OTP I make us draw, but OTD you are too fast. DL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Raze, Mercadian Bazaar, Sarkhan the Masterless
Raze is too good for me. LL
5. jfb1337: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge
Your 4/4s are way too fast for me. LL
7. silkster: City of Brass, Spiritual Visit, Spell Pierce, Alpine Moon
Alpine Moon on Port ruins me. LL
8. maxx!: Rustvale Bridge, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan
Your 4/4s are way too fast for me. LL
9. Phasmoid: Otawara, Soaring City, Piracy Charm, Sand Silos, Tezzeret, Artifice Master
OTP I play Battleground, then you play Silos. I play Squirrel Nest, then you put a counter on Silos. I make a 1/1, then you get a second counter. I make a second 1/1 and attack you to 19, and you get a third counter. I make a third 1/1 and attack you to 17, and you get a fourth counter. I make a fourth 1/1 and attack you to 14, and you get a fifth counter. I make a fifth 1/1 and attack you to 10, and you play Tezzeret and make a 1/1. I attack you to 6, with you trading your token for one of mine, then you make another 1/1. I attack you to 3, with you trading your token for one of mine, then you make another 1/1. I attack you to 1, trading a token with you, then you make a 1/1. I then kill you just in time. OTD I am too slow to do this, so I Port you each turn and we draw. WD
10. alphastryk: Ancient Den, Seat of the Synod, Thopter Foundry, Sword of the Meek
OTP I can stop you from playing anything, but OTD 2 1/1s per turn beats 1 1/1 per turn. DL
11. FTW: Khalni Garden, Colossus Hammer, Plains, Sigarda's Aid
OTP we draw, but OTD you are too fast. DL
2W 4D 12L = 10
It seems I was in too much of a rush this week to read Earthcraft, revealing a hole in my normal method of writing down decks without the lands when I think of them since lands get banned so often in this format.
Last edited by RoosterCocoa; 07-10-2022 at 05:41 PM.
@Rooster, OTP shouldn't you get draws vs FTW, Reeplcheep and alphastryk?
9. me: Otawara, Soaring City , Piracy Charm , Sand Silos , Tezzeret, Artifice Master
2. dte: Blooming Marsh, Chatter of the Squirrel, Pendelhaven, Mind rake WW 6-0
if you attack while I have 3 Thopters on defense, then I can force a trade of
at most 2 Thopters for at least 1 attacker without letting damage through:
If you single-attack, then I triple-block, killing the attacker at the cost of at most 2 blockers.
If you double-attack, then I single-block both, killing whichever Squirrel you don't pump.
Neither of these results in damage getting through.
after you attack, 1 Squirrel vs 1 Thopter while Tezz is still on the battlefield is a win for me:
The Thopter I already have attacks you in the air, while Tezz
keeps making new Thopters to chump-block your Squirrel.
going from 2 to 3 Thopters wins for me:
Me doing that means it's my turn and Tezz is on the battlefield, so I leave the Thopters
on defense and if you don't attack, then Tezz keeps making Thopters for a win.
Thus you do attack. I trade 2-for-1 without letting damage through,
which leaves 1v1 with Tezz still on the battlefield.
I claim I get WW, so suppose I am OTD. On T1, I play Sand Silos. I hold Otawara and
Piracy Charm until you have cast something, and discard them to Mind Rake if you cast
that before Chatter. Even with just Sand Silos, I cast Tezz no later than T7. You can't deal
more than 3 damage to him before he +1 s twice, and can't deal more than 6 total to him
before he +1 s again, so the only way you might not lose to me going from 2 to 3 Thopters
is bringing me to 0 or less life before my T9. A T2 Squirrel would deal 7 damage
before my T9, so is more than worth missing a single pump. Thus, Chatter on T1+T2
deals more damage to me before my T9 than anything else you can do. That deals
1 damage on T2 and 3 damage on each subsequent turn, for a total of 22 damage in time.
That reaches 20 damage _just barely_ in time, so you can't slow down by a full turn,
and can't let me speed up by a turn. In particular, you must Chatter on T1.
As a result, you must also cast T2 Mind Rake, since otherwise T2 Otawara Charm in discard
mode stops Mind Rake while speeding me up by a turn due to the extra mana from Otawara.
A T3 Squirrel would deal 6 damage before my T9, so is more than worth missing a single pump.
Thus, subject to T2 Mind Rake, Chatter on T1+T3 deals more damage to me before my T9
than anything else you can do. That deals 2 damage total from T2+T3 and 3 damage
on each subsequent turn, which reaches exactly 20 damage just barely in time.
In particular, until I block (losing a Thopter), you can't slow down _at all_ and can't attack Tezz.
Thus, you double-attack while I have 3 life and 2 Thopters. I block both,
killing whichever one you don't pump without letting damage through.
Tezz makes a Thopter, going to 8 loyalty, and I let your next attack through.
Tezz and I both survive that attack, resulting in 1v1 while
Tezz is still on the battlefield, which is a win for me.
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Culling the Weak, Paradox Zone, Khalni Garden WW 6-0
T1 discard beats T2 combo. (and T1 removal also beats _this_ T2 combo)
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Raze, Mercadian Bazaar, Sarkhan the Masterless LL 0-6
I definitely can't beat [Mountain + Raze + anything else to discard], since Razing my
storage land stops me from casting my threat. It seems to me that your threat is sufficiently
better than mine that I can't even draw here, despite the possibility of Channeling Otawara.
1. Asthereal (TO): Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Rustvale Bridge DL 1-4
and
5. jfb1337: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge DL 1-4
and
8. maxx!: Rustvale Bridge, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan DL 1-4
When I am OTD, you save 1 Pact for Piracy Charm
and your Titan wins before I can do anything else.
when I am OTP, I don't lose:
I play T1 Snd Silos and T2 Otawara. If you do nothing, then I bring Sand Silos to 7 and
win with Thopters. Waiting doesn't help you, since I just get more storage counters or
[loyalty and Thopters]. Thus you cast one or both Pacts before your T2. If you cast both,
then you lose to Piracy Charm in discard mode. Thus you cast exactly 1 Pact before
your T2. Casting the other later would cause you to lose, so you don't. Your Titan deals
16 damage to me before my T6. I cast T6 Tezz and chump-block your Titan forever.
when I am OTP, I don't win:
If I don't play Otawara before my T2 end step, then you then you make both
Titans during that end step and they win for you before I can do anything.
Thus I play Otawara before that. If you You cast 1 Pact and keep
the other to discard to Piracy Charm. Your T6 attack would win,
so I have to chump-block forever and can't attack back.
6. RoosterCocoa: Havenwood Battleground, Rishadan Port, Squirrel Nest, Earthcraft LL 0-6
Even though Earthcraft is dead, I definitely can't win, since you can discard it to Piracy Charm
and Port can stop me from casting my threat. I've tried some lines, and it seems to me
that I'm just too slow here to even draw, despite the option of Channeling Otawara
to get rid of Squirrel nest after it has already made some number of Squirrels
7. silkster: City of Brass, Spiritual Visit, Spell Pierce, Alpine Moon DD 2-2
Alpine Moon choosing my storage land means I can't bounce it with Otawara or
make my my threat, so I don't win. Making your threat leaves you tapped out
(can't Pierce), so Piracy Charm's removal mode means you don't win.
9. Phasmoid: Otawara, Soaring City, Piracy Charm, Sand Silos, Tezzeret, Artifice Master
This is me.
10. alphastryk: Ancient Den, Seat of the Synod, Thopter Foundry, Sword of the Meek LL 0-6
alphastryk's deck still functions after Sword of the Meek
is discarded, and nothing seems to work for me here.
11. FTW: Khalni Garden, Colossus Hammer, Plains, Sigarda's Aid WW 6-0
T1 discard beats T2 combo. (and T1 removal also beats _this_ T2 combo)
3 LL + 3 DL + 1 DD + 3 WW = 23 points
Last edited by Phasmoid; 07-10-2022 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Pact is an Instant
@Phasmoid: I agree with your analysis, you should WW our MU.
On the other hand, pact is an instant, so you have to play Otawa, so you should DL them?
@dte: ah, right
Asthereal's - and others's - scores for round no inspiration so let's finally get Pact banned:
1. Asthereal (TO): Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Rustvale Bridge <-me
2. dte: Blooming Marsh, Chatter of the Squirrel, Pendelhaven, Mind rake WL
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Culling the Weak, Paradox Zone, Khalni Garden LL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Raze, Mercadian Bazaar, Sarkhan the Masterless WW
5. jfb1337: Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan, Angel's Grace, Rustvale Bridge DD
6. RoosterCocoa: Havenwood Battleground, Rishadan Port, Squirrel Nest, Earthcraft WW
7. silkster: City of Brass, Spiritual Visit, Spell Pierce, Alpine Moon WW
8. maxx!: Rustvale Bridge, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan DD
9. Phasmoid: Otawara, Soaring City, Piracy Charm, Sand Silos, Tezzeret, Artifice Master WD
10. alphastryk: Ancient Den, Seat of the Synod, Thopter Foundry, Sword of the Meek WL
11. FTW: Khalni Garden, Colossus Hammer, Plains, Sigarda's Aid LL
Total: 32 points. We did it! We got the Pact banned after it warping the meta for like five weeks straight.
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You're right, I was just too salty after seeing how I messed up this week to go over the matchups carefully.
Tezzeret doesn't stop you from continuing to make Squirrels, so I think you win both of these.
At least it didn't take until the _very last_ round, when the banning
no longer matters, unlike Goblin Welder in I forget which season. :-)
Both make one token per turn, Charm can kill one (or discard Earthcraft, which is worse), but the squirrels start to amass much earlier.
Port can't stop the squirrels either, so it's just a matter of who is faster.
P: Silos
R: Battleground
P: Silo=1, other land
R: Port, sac Battleground to cast Nest on the Port
P: Silo=2
R: Make token, EOT Charm kills it
P: Silo=3
R: Make token
P: Silo=4
R: Attack, make 2nd token
P: Cast Tezz, make 1st token
R: Attack with 2 tokens, make 3rd token
From here, both make 1 1/1 token per turn, and the squirrels are always with 2 extra, so the squirrels win, unless I'm missing something. I think Phasmoid's right.
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And what happened in Silk vs Rooster, with Rooster OTP?
Does Alpine moon naming port makes it unable to make squirrels, even if nest is played afterwards?
This is where I am not sure about timestamps, etc.
It does affect the bannings, whether Silk goes aver 30 or not.
Assuming the above resolves the last result that might have been wrong in the sheet, here's standings for round 14:
1. Reeplcheep: 37 - 3,7
1. FTW: 37 - 3,7
3. Asthereal (TO): 32 - 3,2
3. GoblinSmashmaster: 32 - 3,2
3. jfb1337: 32 - 3,2
3. maxx!: 32 - 3,2
7. silkster: 29 - 2,9
8. dte: 27 - 2,7
9. Phasmoid: 23 - 2,3
10. alphastryk: 22 - 2,2
11. RoosterCocoa: 12 - 1,2
Which leads to these bannings:
Angel's Grace
Colossus Hammer
Culling the Weak
Khalni Garden
Mercadian Bazaar
Pact of the Titan
Paradox Zone
Raze
Rustvale Bridge
Sarkhan the Masterless
Sigarda's Aid
And the season standings look as follows:
1. dte: 50,2
2. silkster: 47,4
3. FTW: 45,5
4. maxx!: 42,7
5. RoosterCocoa: 42,6
6. Asthereal (TO): 39,8
7. Reeplcheep: 39
8. GoblinSmashmaster: 34,3
9. alphastryk: 33,5
10. Phasmoid: 31,3
11. jfb1337: 10,7
12. Nasst: 6,1
So dte still leads, as has been the case for more or less the whole season, but silk is still within striking distance, so nothing's decided yet. Even FTW can theoretically still win, but that's the longest of longshots. Other fights are closer: maxx! and Rooster are super close for 4th place, and Reep is in my neck for 6th. Also, Phasmoid still has a shot at 9th or maybe even 8th place.
I'll try to build a deck today and hopefully open the final round soonish. I'll probably give you guys a bit of extra time, as this is the last round and there's still lots to fight for.
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Okay, time for the final round!
THE FINAL ROUND OF SEASON 12: VINTAGE CREATURELESS BANNATHON has started.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 15, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: THURSDAY the 14th of July at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(Yes, that's an extra day. And it's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night around midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Mountain, Plains, Forest, Shivan Gorge.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S12R15 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deckbuilding!
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These are both Layer 6 effects, neither is
from a characteristic-defining ability, and
there is no dependency between them.
Accordingly, the later timestamp wins here. I don't
know what this means for the result of that game.
Well, I guess the plan to win OTP was to Port the City until death comes. So before that happens, silk will have to make that enchantment. After that, the Nest comes down.
R: Battleground
s: City, wait
R: Port, wait - EOT cast Visit (19)
s: Port on upkeep (18), attack (19)
R: Wait and then Port on upkeep until dead? That doesn't work. So it must be:
R: Battleground
s: City, cast Moon on Port
s: Port, cast Nest and proceed to make dozens of tokens.
Rooster wins OTP by the looks of things.
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I should have explained this better before.
Rishadan Port on City of Brass races the 1/1 Spirit.
Silkster will die to Port unless proactively casting Alpine Moon on Port. Also, it must happen before Rooster's T2 (after that, upkeep Port stops it).
With Rooster OTP, if silkster casts Alpine Moon on Port, Rooster can cast Squirrel Nest on Port (silkster is tapped out of Spell Pierce). Squirrel Nest has a later time stamp so it is not affected by Alpine Moon. Squirrels beat 1 token.
With Rooster OTD, silkster can T1 Alpine Moon on Port and then untap (hold up Spell Pierce) before Rooster can play T2 Squirrel Nest.
T1 land
T1 land, 1/1 [s=19]
T2 Port
T2 upkeep Port City [S=18], 1/1 attacks [R=19]
The 1/1 loses this race.
Edit: fully answered above. Timestamps prime.
I did not realise the deadline / lists publication was tomorrow*for the last round.*
Meanwhile I wanted to talk about the ideas for the next season.
Also there was this proposition from Phasmoid:And this one from Silkster:
But I am sure Silkster would also have other plans, with a little more time for reflection ;)
The two I would propose, for 8 rounds seasons:
Legacy banlist, no additional bans.
I have the feeling that a lot of the same strategies are at play: LD, targeted discard, mass discard. I propose a few rules that remove them.
Rules :Two main rules:If an effect controlled by an opponent would force one or more cards out of your hand, you can choose and discard a card instead.All lands gain "0:phasing".
And I would add:If an effect causes you to win the game, it does nothing instead.
If an effect controlled by an opponent allows you to find a basic land in your library, you can find the basic land of your choice.Possible bans for 1+ cards in each deck that score 3+ (objectif of renewal without making a very long banlist).*
Backbuild.
I think that could be crazy fun, and the best chance to see truly new cards and strategies. By far my favourite option. Trouble of last one played was "the imitation game", having a deck close to the one that needed to be beaten was a great option. If all cards in the previous decks are banned and we do not know which one the others are beating, that is gone, and we are back to "do your worst".
Rules:Each card in decks that score 3+ is banned for the remainder of the season.Each round, to be legal a deck should be able to beat one of the top 3 decks of previous rounds (TO choses in case of equality).
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