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Thread: UW Sagas

  1. #81

    Re: UW Sagas

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Yes the UB version seems to have more promise, but the problem is finding a payoff for making lots of zombie tokens (other than cabal therapy). Driven//Despair? Hogaak? Cull the meek into Lilianaís mastery?
    I think if you have to find additional payoffs then the deck isn't good enough.

    Estrids Invocation is potentially really powerful but the pool of things to copy with it isn't very good
    - Omen of the Sea is slightly overcosted for legacy
    - History of Benalia also slightly overcosted for legacy
    - Tymaeret Calls the Dead similarly overcosted
    - Sarcomancy too underpowered
    etc

    If you go the other direction in terms of the mana and try to copy huge expensive haymakers with it (like court of grace or whatever) then it's hard to come up with a build of the deck that makes sense to me

    I think the solution might be to go 3c so you can play abundant growth as a cheaper enabler (unfortunately I don't think the deck can be purely UG because there doesn't seem to be good wincons in green but maybe there is some food interation with Trail of Crumbs? Lol I have no idea)

  2. #82

    Re: UW Sagas

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I think if you have to find additional payoffs then the deck isn't good enough.

    Estrids Invocation is potentially really powerful but the pool of things to copy with it isn't very good
    - Omen of the Sea is slightly overcosted for legacy
    - History of Benalia also slightly overcosted for legacy
    - Tymaeret Calls the Dead similarly overcosted
    - Sarcomancy too underpowered
    etc

    If you go the other direction in terms of the mana and try to copy huge expensive haymakers with it (like court of grace or whatever) then it's hard to come up with a build of the deck that makes sense to me

    I think the solution might be to go 3c so you can play abundant growth as a cheaper enabler (unfortunately I don't think the deck can be purely UG because there doesn't seem to be good wincons in green but maybe there is some food interation with Trail of Crumbs? Lol I have no idea)
    If you splash green the gb saga is great. But then you are left wondering why you are playing blue interaction and cantrips instead of just enchantress.

    One idea is powerful cumulative upkeep stuff like rhystic study, but that risks losing your invocation.

  3. #83

    Re: UW Sagas

    The best new cheap enchantment is Urzaís saga. Perhaps that makes it consistent enough? The floor of always being a karn, scion of urza seems pretty good.

  4. #84

    Re: UW Sagas

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    ...
    Estrids Invocation is potentially really powerful but the pool of things to copy with it isn't very good
    ...
    If you go the other direction in terms of the mana and try to copy huge expensive haymakers with it (like court of grace or whatever) then it's hard to come up with a build of the deck that makes sense to me
    There's a sort of paradox - if the enchantment can be cast for less then 3 mana, then Estrid's Invocation is likely to be a bad deal. If the enchantment can be cast for more than 3 mana and is worth playing in legacy then it's likely to win the game by itself and Estrid's Invocation is likely to be win-more. On top of that, you have to have an enchantment in play for it to do anything.

    Estrid's invocation looks like a card that's unlikely to make sense outside of combo decks.

  5. #85
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    Re: UW Sagas

    Estrid seems fine in UG Enchantress. History of Benalia just isn't a strong enough card to be worth copying, unless you're already far ahead.

    Edit: I think the biggest advantage to the Saga-aggro strategy (before) was that you could pump out a board presence that was immune to Oko and could go wide around Elks. With Oko banned, does this make sense anymore?

  6. #86

    Re: UW Sagas

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    There's a sort of paradox - if the enchantment can be cast for less then 3 mana, then Estrid's Invocation is likely to be a bad deal.

    If the enchantment can be cast for more than 3 mana and is worth playing in legacy then it's likely to win the game by itself and Estrid's Invocation is likely to be win-more. On top of that, you have to have an enchantment in play for it to do anything.
    The 2nd part of this is comment is mostly true but I disagree with the first part
    Even copying something like Abundant Growth you have painless Phyrexian Arena which also triggers when it etb, which is solidly legacy playable imo

    The other variation of this that might be viable I forgot is UR(w) because of Omen of the Forge is a decent copy target, maybe you can play the UR giant saga with bonecrushers or something

    History of Benalia just isn't a strong enough card to be worth copying, unless you're already far ahead.
    It can get you ahead very quickly with the rate that it spits out knights and buffs them but the problem is that it doesn't necessarily get you a relevant amount more ahead than copying a "smaller" effect would and History doesn't really mesh with the rest of the deck by itself

    Edit: I think the biggest advantage to the Saga-aggro strategy (before) was that you could pump out a board presence that was immune to Oko and could go wide around Elks. With Oko banned, does this make sense anymore
    Yeah this upside has kind of disappeared
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 06-06-2021 at 09:28 AM.

  7. #87

    Re: UW Sagas

    Urzaís saga is an extremely cheap and uncounterable target for Estridís. Perhaps we could go to a more artifact token based version? Hidden stockpile, dark steel mutation?

  8. #88
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    Re: UW Sagas

    Copying Saga seems nice and degenerate until other decks adequately hate it out. Would that work even better in blue stompy though?

    Ancient Tomb gets Saga online faster, Tomb casts Estrid on turn 2, Chalice and Force stop enemy shenanigans. You could squeeze in room for other enchantments to copy like Omen of the Sea or Propaganda.

  9. #89

    Re: UW Sagas

    The degenerate thing is that saga{estrid copy} untaps before it flickers so you could potentially make 2 constructs per estrid per turn. There isnít a ton of other good mono blue enchantments to copy other than reality acid however.

  10. #90

  11. #91

    Re: UW Sagas

    Paint-by-numbers draft:

    MonoU LD:

    4 Tomb
    3 City
    10 Island
    4 Urzaís saga
    1 Gemstone Caverns
    2 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Confounding Conundrum
    4 Reality Acid
    4 Propoganda
    4 Estrids Invocation
    4 Parralax Tide
    4 Force of Will
    2 Riptide Chimera
    4 Thopter Spy Network

  12. #92
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    Re: UW Sagas

    Lol, copying Parallax Tide.

    Such an enchantment heavy deck could also run Thirst for Meaning as card draw.

    1-of Retrofitter Foundry seems good as a Saga target in a deck that already makes Thopter tokens.

  13. #93

    Re: UW Sagas

    Copying Urza's Sage doesn't even seem that good to me
    Like you already have to pay 2 to make a construct from the original saga
    Then to take advantage of the Estrids you have to pay an additional 2 to also make a construct from the copy in the same turn cycle
    Idk if that's a kind of play pattern worth aiming for

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