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Thread: Emry Stompy

  1. #41

    Re: Emry Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Have you tested Paradoxical Outcome in this deck? Maybe also with Sai.
    Paradoxical Outcome seems not shitty here. Especially if you're focusing on the combo route. It might be hard to squeeze it in though. It's a tight deck.

    @FTW: Urza's Saga seems good here. A buddy of mine runs the Urza, Lord High Artificer build and uses it's mana to power out Karn shenanigans. It's incredibly strong. I'm loving Urza's Saga though, lots of useful utility. With Saga instead of Urza is there enough mana to take advantage of Karn's toolbox?

    What about cutting Karn in the Saga build for 4x maindeck Teferi's Puzzle Box? A considerably less amount of mana is required and you could really take advantage of Hullbreacher and Narset by locking your opponent out a turn or two earlier.

    Is there a combo with Retrofitter Foundry that I'm missing?
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  2. #42
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    Re: Emry Stompy

    I'll try Outcome. Good idea. Effect is very good. The only downside is the deck is already clogged at 3-4 mana, but I'll try it out.

    Karn is the best card in the deck. Pre-MH2, 90% of my wins came from Karn into Lattice (locked) or Aetherflux Reservoir (storm kill with Baubles). Karn can also tutor for combo pieces, find control pieces to stabilize, Lattice lock on its own without the combo, disable enemy combos with artifact activated abilities, disable artifact lands, or kill opposing Chalice @ 0. Karn is a 1-man army here. 4th Karn is better than 1st of almost every other card.

    The main line is to protect and execute Hullbreacher + Echo, discard their hand, draw 7, and create 7 Treasure tokens. Although discarding their hand and passing the turn might be a 70%+ chance win, because this deck is full of 0cmc garbage it's possible for opponent to topdeck out of it and win while I draw a bunch of nothing. To avoid that, I want to use the Treasure mana to cast a threat and shut the door immediately, so they have no chance to draw out of it or win with their current board state. The deck should be designed to win the game if it does the combo, otherwise why even have the combo.

    With 7 Treasures + the 7 cards drawn it's easy to count to 10 mana for Karn + Lattice that same turn (0 turn clock vs irrelevant board). The opponent will have an empty hand and 0 draw steps, so sticking Lattice is basically a guaranteed nail in the coffin. With the right hand, Aetherflux Reservoir storm kill only takes 8 mana (0 turn clock) and is better than Lattice vs some board states. Playing a creature like Urza is not bad (1-4 turn clock) but gives the opponent chance to topdeck (e.g. Terminus). Karn is an "I win" button that curbstomps them when they're down, giving no chance to get back up. Karn into Lattice/Aetherflux was basically the most broken ways I could find to abuse those 7 Treasures for a 0-turn clock, without having to maindeck cards that are bad outside the combo.

    Ideally I would just have 10x Karn. I can increase the consistency of Karn wins by using 3 Treasures to Intuition @ 3x Karn, dig with more Echoes, Intuition @ 3x Echo or 3x LED (to dig with more Echos), or dig with Narset. The pre-MH2 deck did that most games and eventually won with Karn 90% of the time, with Intuition boosting consistency significantly (while also tutoring for Hull/Echo pre-combo). But disruption is a thing and Karn does not win through all board states, so I must run non-Karn wincons too. That's why the pre-MH2 deck had Urzas.

    I found Urza, Lord High Artificer underwhelming though. When I cannot combo at all, it functions as a wincon. But it doesn't help the combo lines much. At 4 mana and UU it's too slow as a supporting pre-combo engine (Hull, Intuition, Echo, Emry are easier casts). Post-combo as a win condition it was OK to increase threat density, but more fragile than the other lines. I only ran it because I needed something other than Karn.

    Now Urza's Saga seems better. Pre-combo it taps for mana and tutors for LED. Post-combo it makes 2 X/Xs (Urza only makes 1), so it should shut the door quickly and give them limited time to draw out of the Mind Twist. In games where I cannot combo, Urza's Saga creates more uncounterable board presence than Urza Lord does and is harder to answer with conventional main decks (metagame changes may shift this). Retrofitter Foundry is there as a tutor target to win those games where I cannot combo and just win with Urza, casting 0 spells. The 1-of takes up little space.

    Teferi's Puzzle Box is pretty bad without a combo piece. Why not just run 4x Karn and tutor for Puzzle Box if I want it? Puzzle Box isn't the main line. It's there because Karn cannot tutor for Echo of Eons.

  3. #43
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    Last edited by FTW; 07-19-2021 at 12:20 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Emry Stompy

    ThrabenU recently tested a version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-2D2NHDyZM

    Donation version

    //Lands: 21
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Saprazzan Skerry
    4 Hickory Woodlot
    2 Otawara, Soaring City
    1 Island

    //Artifacts: 15
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Mox Opal
    1 Aether Spellbomb
    1 Retrofitter Foundry
    1 Shadowspear

    //Spells: 14
    4 Force of Will
    4 Day's Undoing
    4 Echo of Eons
    2 Commit // Memory

    //Creatures: 4
    4 Hullbreacher

    //Planeswalkers: 6
    2 Narset, Parter of Veils
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Force of Negation
    4 Choke
    3 Carpet of Flowers


    It's nice to see more players trying MindTwist stompy!

    This version is much more redundant on the combo. It looks fun. But from both the list and video it seems this will struggle to actually do the thing. You'd think MOAR sol lands + MOAR Timetwisters means MOAR shenanigans, but it's also more conditional cards walking into disruption. Phil had a similar feeling but didn't have suggestions, probably because he hasn't played with better-functioning lists in this archetype.

    1) The depletion lands are too ambitious. Especially the green one. ETB tapped is a huge tempo cost, negating all the tempo gained from artifact acceleration and sol lands. You can't afford to skip turns when the plan is to wreck their hand before they play too much. The lists with 0 depletion lands worked fine. MAXIMUM 3 Skerry + 0 Woodlot, to avoid giving opponent multiple Time Walks.

    2) 14 suicidal lands is suicidal. You also can't afford to use depletion lands on Urza's Saga constructs. Not only is it 1 turn slower than Tomb+Saga, but it turns opponent's Meltdown/Hurkyl's/Dress Down into a 1-sided Wrath+Armageddon.
    Mana denial will wreck this too. Island is a good card.

    3) Mox Opal > Chrome Mox. I discussed it on page 2 after testing. Force + Chrome Mox chokes blue count. Since the blue cards are the combo pieces, you end up pitching the combo and then the deck can't do anything. Mox Diamond is possible (lands are more expendable than blue cards), but Mox Opal is better.

    4) 10 Timetwisters is too many. 4 Echo + 2 Day's or 3 Echo + 3 Day's should be plenty. It's an A-then-B combo that requires Hull/Narset to survive, so there shouldn't be so many more Bs than As. To see them more often, Intuition increases copies (and keeps up blue count) without risking as many bad draws.

    5) Chalice of the Void plays a big role in slowing down opposing decks and turning off removal (Bolt, REB, Plow) to keep Hull/Narset alive. Without Chalice or Grid, the video has Hullbreachers dying over and over before the combo can do its thing. Or Delver just dumping its hand first.


    This 10th place Challenge list played closer to what we had before:
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...arkdm_th_place

    Challenge List

    //Lands: 17
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Seat of the Synod
    2 Island
    1 Otawara, Soaring City

    //Artifacts: 20
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble
    1 Aether Spellbomb
    1 Retrofitter Foundry
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Shadowspear
    1 Unlicensed Hearse

    //Spells: 8
    4 Force of Will
    4 Echo of Eons

    //Creatures: 11
    4 Hullbreacher
    3 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    2 Sai, Master Thopterist
    2 Kappa Cannoneer

    //Planeswalker: 4
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Soul-Guide Lantern
    1 Walking Ballista
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Dismember
    2 Warping Wail
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Hurkyl's Recall


    Kappa is a nice addition for extra wincon. Much better than Urza.

    I've always preferred the Chalices main (turn off fair removal & cantrips), but maybe the MD Urza's package 1cmcs gave better G1s against unfair decks. Force MD (instead of SB) also indicates expecting a combo-heavy meta, since Force is not great at protecting Hull-Echo vs fair blue (Chalice + Grid is better, since LED makes you discard FoW before they counter Echo or Bolt Hullbreacher/Narset).

  5. #45
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    Re: Emry Stompy

    Echo Stompy makes 7th in the Challenge with white splash


    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Tundra
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    3 Otawara, Soaring City
    2 Urza's Saga
    2 Sea Gate Restoration

    //Artifacts: 15
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Chrome Mox
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Opal

    //Planeswalkers: 8
    4 Narset, Parter of Veils
    4 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Spells: 8
    4 Day's Undoing
    4 Echo of Eons

    //Creatures: 7
    4 Hullbreacher
    2 Monastery Mentor
    1 Displacer Kitten

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Force of Will
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Timeless Dragon
    2 Cathar Commando
    1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire


    3feri protection and Displacer Kitten combo comes in for Karn, with Mentor replacing the other alt wincon (Kappa, Sai, Urza, etc).

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