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Thread: Forge Bots

  1. #1

    Forge Bots

    Forge Bots

    Legacy Format

    Deck designed by: Daniel Worobec

    Last updated: April 12, 2021





    Introduction

    There is a common misconception that Forge Bots is a deck that relies on Mystic Forge to be effective. This is very untrue. I chose to give it the name Forge Bots to describe it in a simple way but I think if I were to describe it more while being as short as I can, I would call it Bots-Stompy-Chalice-Forge-Companion. Below is a breakdown of this:

    Bots – There are twenty artifact creatures in Forge Bots and one companion in the sideboard; 4x Salvage Titan, 4x Lupine Prototype, 4x Frogmite, 4x Memnite and 4x Chimeric Mass (I do count this as a creature) and either a Umori, the Collector or Gyruda, Doom of Depths (I prefer Umori).

    Stompy – Forge Bots is Stompy in more than one way, not only is there fast mana, there is also multiple alternative ways to cast creatures. For mana, Forge Bots has eight sol-lands, twelve mana cost zero artifact mana and four lands that produce the normal one mana. 4x Ancient Tomb, 4x City of Traitors, 4x Lion’s Eye Diamond, 4x Lotus Petal, 4x Mox Opal, 3x Blast Zone and 1x Inventors’ Fair. Since Forge Bots has mostly just generic mana in the costs it is also Stompy in a way that you will always have the right color of mana so there is no concern about having the right kind of mana to cast spells. As for Stompy in the way of creatures, all twenty creatures have a different way of getting them onto the battlefield, often you can have your opening hand on the battlefield on turn one. Memnite is a free 1/1. Lupine Prototype is the only creature that costs mana but it only cost two mana for a 5/5 and its penalty is usually easily overcome. Salvage Titan is basically a free 6/4 with all the free artifact you can sacrifice to it. Frogmite usually is free to play with Affinity ability. With Chimeric Mass you have the option to make it as big or small as you like, it can get very big, very fast with the Stompy mana. And of course you have the option of casting your Companion; even though it is seven mana to cast Umori, the Collector, if you play Forge Bots you will see that you can play it faster than you think. Since there are only 8-12 cards that require mana, 4x Lupine Prototype, 4x Mystic Forge and variable 4x Chalice of the Void, and the rest of the deck can be played for free, Forge Bots can essentially run on no mana at all.

    Chalice – With so much Stompy mana it is easy to cast Chalice of the Void on turn one along with other creatures. Forge Bots has no Mana cost one or three spells and has only four mana cost two spells that the deck can work without if needed.

    Forge – Mystic Forge is the engine in Forge Bots, enabling it to have a turn two win. After casting Mystic Forge I have had 40+ power on the battlefield that same turn and can easily have a third of your deck, on the battlefield in one or on multiple turns. Mystic Forge is usually a game changer and sometimes causes the opponent to forfeit.

    Companion – Umori, the Collector and Gyruda, Doom of Depths can both be used as a Companion in Forge Bots. With all of the Stompy mana available you can get Umori, the Collector out on turn one or two.

    Cards in Forge Bots:

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Lupine Prototype
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite
    4x Chimeric Mass
    4x Gustha’s Scepter
    3x Engineered Explosives
    1x Mishra’s Bauble
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    3x Blast Zone
    1x Inventors’ Fair

    Side Board:

    1x Umori, the Collector
    4x Tormod’s Crypt
    4x Sorcerous Spyglass
    2x Ethersworn Canonist
    2x Karakas
    1x Engineered Explosives
    1x Phyrexian Revoker

    How Forge Bots works

    Forge Bots is a fast agro deck that tries to get creatures both big and small as fast as possible and Mystic Forge supercharging the deck if used and is also built around Chalice of the Void. Forge Bot’s speed is based on casting things for free along with fast mana. Forge Bots features creatures that are cast in different ways and some have penalties in exchange for a high power and toughness. Different ways of casting include Affinity for Artifacts, sacrificing artifacts, X casting costs, creatures with penalties in exchange for low casting costs and other free to cast creatures as well as having an optional Companion that is also kind of a free card in your hand. These different ways of casting creatures allows for playing them in different ways to get multiple creatures onto the battlefield on turn one and two, it is just not about casting creatures with mana. Forge Bots is designed so that everything is free to play except for Mystic Forge and Lupine Prototype (also your Companion but the Companion is optional), these two cards are usually on the battlefield by turn one or two because of the fast mana in the deck; Chalice of the Void costs mana most of the time and it is recommended to be used with mana. Forge Bots features forty artifacts that are free to play, twelve lands and eight cards that will cost mana. Chalice of the Void is great is Forge Bots since there is no mana cost one and three spells and only four mana cost two spells that are not vital to the deck. Mystic Forge is a super engine in Forge Bots. Since almost everything is free to play, all cards are artifacts except for 12 lands, you will usually cast around ten or more cards per turn. Forge Bots is rich in synergies and clever ways to play fast creatures as well as being built around Chalice of the Void.

    The Cards of Forge Bots

    Salvage Titan: Salvage Titan is a 6/4 creature that is cast with no mana and can be brought back from the graveyard. Forge Bots has 36 artifacts that are free to cast and you will almost always have enough of these in your opening had to play Salvage Titan for free. It is very easy to get artifacts into the graveyard with Forge Bots so exiling three artifacts to return it to your had is almost always an option. Hard casting Salvage Titan for 4BB is easier and happens more often than you think. Two Lion’s Eye Diamond can be used to cast Salvage Titan. Sacrifice the Diamonds for mana and discard Salvage Titan, then exile three artifacts and return Salvage Titan to your hand and then cast. One Lion’s Eye Diamond is usually enough to cast Salvage Titan along with fast mana from Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Mox Opal and Lotus Petal. Since Salvage Titan is an artifact, it can be cast while on the top of your library with Mystic Forge on the battlefield. You can cast multiple in a turn with Mystic Forge because of the low land count and high amount or artifacts that you will be able to get into play with Mystic Forge.

    Lupine Prototype: While playing Forge Bots you will almost always have no cards in your hand after turn one since your hand is usually emptied by turn two. You get a 5/5 for just two colorless mana and can usually cast it with just one land or a combination of other fast mana. Usually the only thing that is in your hand that will keep Lupine Prototype from working is a Mystic Forge (which is usually not a bad thing to have) and sometimes Chalice of the Void. Mystic Forge lets you cast cards off the top of your library so you can play a lot of things and not have them in your hand. Gustha’s Scepter and Lion’s Eye Diamond also help to keep your hand empty so Lupine Prototype is free to attack and block. With only 12 lands in the deck you will usually be able to play out your lands and not have many stuck in your hand to keep Lupine Prototype from attacking or blocking.

    Frogmite: 32 zero mana cost artifacts usually enough to let Frogmite be cast for nothing, sometimes you will have to pay a mana for it. Being free to cast along and playing them alongside with other creatures, a free 2/2 is usually pretty good. Though Frogmite is small, being paired with a 5/5 Lupine Prototype and a 6/4 Salvage Titan on turn one is often enough to make an opponent concede on turn one or get them down to zero life relatively fast. You can usually see multiple Frogmites cast with a Mystic Forge on the battlefield.

    Memnite: Zero casting cost artifact is a key component in Forge Bots. A 1/1 may not seem like much but when played alongside with other creatures on turn one and two for free, the total amount of power on the battlefield can quickly win you the game. Memnite is excellent in combination with Mystic Forge, allowing for many to be revealed and cast. Memnite also works well in sacrificing to Salvage Titan, easy to cast to let Lupine Prototype to attack, affinity for Frogmite and metalcraft for Mox Opal.

    Chimeric Mass: You may be wondering why Chimeric Mass is in Forge Bots instead of Stonecoil Serpent? Forge Bots relies on many artifact to be cast for free and Chimeric Mass stays on the battlefield if cast for zero mana. Chimeric Mass is also good because you have to animate it into a creature, allowing it to be immune to mass creature killing cards like Damnation and Terminus. Having a casting cost of X allows Chimeric Mass to always be on curve with mana, you can make a 0/0 that will not die or a 10+/10+. Chimeric Mass is also ideal for Forge Bots because you can make large amounts of mana fast for a big creature.

    Chalice of the Void: With the exception of four Lupine Prototypes, there is nothing in Forge Bots with mana cost one, two or three. Chalice of the Void is ideal for countering many of your opponent’s spells without countering your own. Casting Chalice of the Void for two, four and six mana is usually not a problem; you can even cast it for zero to sacrifice it to a Salvage Titan. Casting Chalice of the Void on turn one with one counter is often seen with all the sol lands and artifact mana.

    Engineered Explosives: Chalice of the Void is great to use in Forge Bots but is also dangerous to Forge Bots. With so many zero mana cost artifact in the deck, the opponent casting an early Chalice of the Void with no counters on it makes it difficult for Forge Bots to win and just slows it down. Engineered Explosives is a good answer for Chalice of the Void, can also be used for destroying other permanents and can be free to cast. To get by and destroy
    Chalice of the Void, cast Engineered Explosives that do not equal the amount of charge counters on any Chalice of the Void with colorless mana. Since you cast Engineered Explosives with colorless mana, it will enter the battlefield with no counters on it and then sacrifice it to destroy all Chalice of the Void. Engineered Explosives is also good utility for destroying permanents.

    Mishra’s Bauble: More zero converted mana cost artifacts is key to Forge Bots working well. Mishra’s Bauble allow for drawing key creatures and cards like Mystic Forge. With the ability to be cast for free, you can play Mishra’s Bauble alongside other cards, allowing for an explosive first and second turn with drawing capabilities rather than just play a land, cast a Ponder and then pass the turn. Mishra’s Bauble can also provide you with information about the cards that the opponent is playing and what card is coming up from the top of your library.

    Gustha’s Scepter: And yet another free artifact to cast to help with casting Salvage Titan, affinity for Frogmite and metalcraft for Mox Opal. Gustha’s Scepter has many synergies and uses in Forge Bots. Perhaps the largest advantage that Gustha’s Scepter has is being able to respond to an opponent casting a discard spell, just hide the card and then cast it when ready. Gustha’s Scepter also has synergies with Lupine Prototype, it can exile cards from you hand, allowing Lupine Prototype to attack and block and then the exiled card can be returned to your hand and then cast later. There is also another neat little trick you can do with Gustha’s Scepter and Lion’s Eye Diamond. Exile a card from your hand the turn before and then sacrifice the Lion’s Eye Diamond for mana and then return the card to your hand and then use the three mana to cast the hidden card the turn after. Gustha’s Scepter is also good for hiding a land such as City of Traitors or other land from Lupine Prototype if you already have a City of Traitors on the battlefield or too many land in hand.

    Mystic Forge: This is the best card in Forge Bots. Mystic Forge is often on the battlefield by turn one or two with the availability of fast mana. Since the only cards that really cost mana in Forge Bots are four Lupine Prototypes and four Mystic Forges and sometimes Chalice of the Void, you will be able to play a massive amount of cards per turn. Only having twelve land in the deck minimizes the chance of stopping cards from being played with Mystic Forge. Since the cards are being cast from the top of your library and not being drawn, Lupine Prototype is free to attack and block. You can cast all the non-land cards in Forge Bots from the top of your library with Mystic Forge. Lion’s Eye Diamond is very effective with Mystic Forge on the battlefield because it acts as having four Black Lotus’. Since the cards are being played off the top of your library and not in your hand, this gets around Lion’s Eye Diamond’s discard penalty, enabling for large amounts of mana for multiple Mystic Forge, Lupine Prototype, Chalice of the Void and Chimeric Mass in addition to lots of free spells.

    Lion’s Eye Diamond: Another free artifact to cast that also produces mana. Lion’s Eye Diamond is good for the reasons mentioned above in combination with Salvage Titan, Lupine Prototype, Gustha’s Scepter, Mystic Forge and Companions. Lion’s Eye Diamond is also good for activating Blast Zone, Engineered Explosives and Inventors’ Fair.

    Mox Opal: A second artifact that is free that also produces mana. Having metalcraft on the first turn is never really a problem with 28 other free to cast artifact in Forge Bots. Mox Opal is a fast for producing mana and also contributes towards the different synergies in Forge Bots. Mox Opal is very helpful in casting Mystic Forge, Lupine Prototype and Chimeric Mass fast and also provides colored mana if you want to hard cast Salvage Titan and Engineered Explosives with sunburst. Mox Opal is great for casting off the top of your library with Mystic Forge, allowing for an abundance of mana.

    Lotus Petal: A third artifact that is free to that also produces mana. Lotus Petal is very useful for the advantages listed for Mox Opal above. Also having twelve artifact mana sources in Forge Bots helps to limit the amount of land needed.

    Ancient Tomb: Having a land that produces more than one mana further enables the speed of Forge Bots. Since pretty much all of Forge Bots requires only colorless mana, you never really have to worry about having the right color of mana for getting the job done. Nothing like a turn one Lupine Prototype or Chalice of the Void followed by a turn two Mystic Forge.

    City of Traitors: Having a second land that produces more than one mana makes Forge Bots even faster. City of Traitors’ sacrifice penalty is usually not a problem since Forge Bots only has twelve lands in it and does not need much mana.

    Blast Zone: Blast Zone is an ideal removal card for Forge Bots in addition to producing mana. With the exception of four Lupine Prototypes with a mana cost of two, there is nothing in Forge Bots with converted mana cost one two for three. So Blast Zone really takes care of destroying your opponent’s permanents without destroying your own permanents. Blast Zone usually takes a lot of mana in order to activate it but Forge Bots usually produces enough mana. Lion’s Eye Diamond is good for helping to activate Blast Zone. With Blast Zone, Forge Bots does have some disruption along with Chalice of the Void and Engineered Explosives.

    Inventors’ Fair: Good for producing mana, gaining life and tutoring for artifacts; Inventors’ Fair is great for Forge Bots. Having at least three artifacts on the battlefield is not really a problem for Inventors’ Fair to work. Use Inventors’ Fair to search for a Mystic Forge and is also good for a Salvage Titan. Is also useful for shuffling you library when you see a card on top of your library with Mystic Forge that you can’t play. Lion’s Eye Diamond is excellent for Inventors’ Fair, providing you with mana to tutor for a card and then cast it.

    The Side Board of Forge Bots (a working progress)

    Umori, the Collector: Umori, the Collector is a great companion for Forge Bots because it only has artifacts and lands. Forge Bots is all about getting things for free and companions are just that, Free! With all of the Stompy mana mentioned above Umori, the Collector is usually cast early on in the game. Lion’s Eye Diamond is great for casting Umori, the Collector because Umori, the Collector does not have to be in your hand when Lion’s Eye Diamond is activated. Forge Bots produces seven mana early more than you think it would. You can also split the mana up by paying the three mana to put Umori, the Collector in your hand, exile it with Gustha’s Scepter and then using Lion’s Eye Diamond to cast Umori, the Collector the next turn. Mystic Forge really takes advantage of Umori, the Collector’s ability to reduce the mana cost for artifacts, allowing you to cast far more spells using Mystic Forge. With it also being in your sideboard it does not affect Lupine Prototype.

    Tormod’s Crypt: Ideal for being a zero converted mana cost artifact and being an answer to graveyard based decks. Mystic Forge is helpful in getting Tormod’s Crypt out fast and in multiples.

    Sorcerous Spyglass: Sorcerous Spyglass is excellent sideboard for Forge Bots at stopping fast combo decks. Sorcerous Spyglass is also great utility for stopping a variety of cards as well as giving you a peek at your opponent’s hand.

    Ethersworn Canonist: Ethersworn Canonist is great for slowing down and sometimes stopping fast decks from working. Since it does not effect artifacts, Ethersworn Canonist does not limit the amount of cards Forge Bots can cast. Ethersworn Canonist can also be cast with Mystic Forge and does not effect the requirements of Umori, the Collector since it will always be the first non-artifact spell you cast.

    Karakas: An early Marit Lage token from Dark Depths, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Griselbrand that have been cheated into play can be enough to end the game before you can deal twenty damage to the opponent. Karakas is a great answer to bounce large creatures and stall the game long enough for you to win the games in addition to producing mana. Karakas can also produce white mana that can help to cast Ethersworn Canonist and paying colored mana for Engineered Explosives.

    Phyrexian Revoker: Much like Sorcerous Spyglass but is also a creature.

    Engineered Explosives: As above, added mostly as a solution to Chalice of the Void.

    Cards for consideration in Forge Bots

    Gyruda, Doom of Depths: Is an alternate Companion to Umori, the Collector that can be added without any modifications to Forge Bots. Gyruda, Doom of Depths is also good because you put cards into your graveyard from it, you can play a Salvage Titan, Lupine Prototype, Frogmite or Memnite. I chose to include Umori, the Collector over Gyruda, Doom of Depths because the extra two mana made it too inconsistent when comparing the six mana cost to the four.

    Aetherflux Reservoir: This can be an alternative win condition for Forge Bots. If on the battlefield along with Mystic Forge, it is very likely you can cast enough cards in one turn to deal fifty damage to your opponent. Much like a Storm deck, you can cast a lot of cards with Mystic Forge. Also Aetherflux Reservoir counts the spells cast before it so Mystic Forge can essentially draw you it and then provide enough life to activate it. Since you only really need one, it may be a good alternate win condition that you can put in your sideboard or maybe even main deck.

    Nesting Grounds: Chalice of the void, Engineered Explosives, Chimeric Mass and Blast Zone all use charge counters. Nesting Grounds can make your charge counters interchangeable among permanents. Did you regret putting the wrong amount of charge counters on Chalice of the Void and/or Engineered Explosives? Well add or subtract some. Blast Zone creates more and current/future Chimeric Mass can generate some as well. Nesting Grounds is also great if your opponent casts Chalice of the Void with no counters. Just move a charge counter from one of your permanents to your opponent’s Chalice of the Void since Forge Bots can get around one counter.

    Welding Jar: Forge Bots uses many zero mana cost artifacts to function. Welding Jar can be used to protect your artifacts.

    Defense Grid: This is good for protecting yourself mostly against counter magic. May be a good sideboard card.

    Scrapheap Scrounger: Is a decent 3/2 for just two mana. One of the big benefits is that it can be cast off of Lion’s Eye Diamond since you can use the mana to get it onto the battlefield from your graveyard. Also being able to bring it back from your graveyard for other purposes makes it resilient.

    (Karn, the Great Creator): This card can have a place in Forge Bots but after testing it, I found that Forge Bots was better without it. Just because I could not find a place for it does not mean that it may not have a place in Forge Bots.

    All in all I think Forge Bots is a very unique deck that is fast and fun to play.

    Thank you for your consideration,

    Daniel Worobec


    The following is for historical purposes, earlier versions of Forge Bots and related posts.

    Main Deck (without Chalice of the Void) December 15, 2019:

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Lupine Prototype
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite
    4x Chimeric Mass
    4x Urza’s Bauble
    4x Mishra’s Bauble
    4x Gustha’s Scepter
    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    3x Blast Zone
    1x Inventors’ Fair

    Side Board:

    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Tormod’s Crypt
    3x Engineered Explosives
    3x Pithing Needle
    1x Karakas

    Main Deck (with Chalice of the Void) December 15, 2019:

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Lupine Prototype
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite
    4x Chimeric Mass
    4x Mishra’s Bauble
    4x Gustha’s Scepter
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    3x Blast Zone
    1x Inventors’ Fair

    Side Board:

    3x Warping Wail
    4x Tormod’s Crypt
    3x Engineered Explosives
    3x Pithing Needle
    2x Karakas
    Last edited by Daniel Worobec; 04-12-2021 at 08:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Any reason not to run cranial plating(s)?
    -rob

  3. #3

    Re: Forge Bots

    mistercakes
    Any reason not to run cranial plating(s)?
    Thank you for your question. I tried Cranial Plating before and it did not work out as well as I thought it would. Forge Bots efficiency is based on having only a few cards that require mana to cast. Cranial Plating is an excellent suggestion but while testing it, I found that it was not as good as I thought it was. I found that I did not have enough artifact on the battlefield to warrant spending three mana on it. When playing Forge Bots you tend to sacrifice most of the artifacts you play like Mishra's Bauble, Urza's Bauble, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, artifacts to Salvage Titan and sacrificing Mox Opals to each other because of the legendary rule. Adding Cranial Plating to Forge Bots would also mean that there would be another thing to keep the tempo of Mystic Forge from working if you did not have enough mana to cast Cranial Plating since it costs mana. Also Cranial Plating requires another creature in order for it to work. If you wanted to try out Cranial Plating in Forge Bots it can still be effective, I would also consider playing Shambling Suit over Cranial Plating though because it is generally the same thing but is a creature instead of an equipment.

    I hope this answers you question and thank you again for your comment.

  4. #4

    Re: Forge Bots

    With zero 1-cmc main deck and 8 sol-lands + petal/mox it's hard not want main deck Chalice.
    But I can see the reasoning of not wanting to pay mana. Might be better to swap the Scepter for Chalice and the Titan and Lupine for the mentioned Enforcer and Breaker (or perhaps Mycosynth Golem). That way you can cast your stuff for free and have the Chalice protection main deck.

    Looks fun though.

  5. #5
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Could Shield Sphere be better than Memnite? I don't see a 1/1 attacker being very relevant but a 0/6 helps protect your life in racing situations. If Depths is popular enough in your meta, you might even want Ornithopter just to chump Marit Lage (also Emrakul and Griselbrand).

    Mycosynth Golem looks really bad.

    I can see why Cranial Plating doesn't fit. Not only does it cost mana, but Affinity uses it best on evasive creatures, which you lack, and with the BB to move it at instant speed. Does a vanilla 6/4 or 5/5 need to get any fatter? Seems win-more.

    Edit: I was also going to suggest MD Chalice, because Chalice @1 seems amazing, but I can see why it's in the SB. Chalice looks awkward while "going off". You may not have 2 mana. If you cast it for 0, it shuts down your whole deck. Revealed off Mystic Forge or stuck in hand with Lupine, both can get awkward. You have to make a calculated decision if Chalice will shut down their deck more than it slows down yours.

  6. #6

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    Edit: I was also going to suggest MD Chalice, because Chalice @1 seems amazing, but I can see why it's in the SB. Chalice looks awkward while "going off". You may not have 2 mana. If you cast it for 0, it shuts down your whole deck. Revealed off Mystic Forge or stuck in hand with Lupine, both can get awkward. You have to make a calculated decision if Chalice will shut down their deck more than it slows down yours.
    This is why I suggested to swap the creatures when you go for main deck Chalice. I also thought the Golem would give affinity to all your artifacts, not just creatures, so you would be able to combo more easy once you drop it. I should read the card better before posting it.

  7. #7

    Re: Forge Bots

    This is very cool. I like that the deck looks powerful while using a lot of cards that don't normally see play. I also like the ways in which you're making use of LED.

    Would the inclusion of Painter's Servant + Grindstone raise the curve too much? An "oops I win" combo could serve as a backup plan to attacking on the ground. I could imagine scenarios where this deck is comboing with Mystic Forge and fast mana but doesn't have time to win via the combat step because an enemy board wipe or combo is incoming.

    Secretly I'm asking this question because if the deck already has Lotus Petal/LED/Baubles, and you found a way to fit in Painter's Servant, then you could also shoehorn in Reap, and then you'd have a deck that could win via the combat step or Painter's Servant + Grindstone or a Painter's Servant + Reap loop.

    Other questions --
    Any use for Gaea's Cradle as a 1-of or 2-of? Do you get enough creatures fast for it to be kind of like a Sol land?
    Any use for Experimental Frenzy as functional extra copies of the Mystic Forge engine?

    Good luck with the deck.

  8. #8

    Re: Forge Bots

    So I copied your list into tappedout.com for a goldfish play test. The first game I had a turn one Mystic Forge followed by 2x Salvage Titans, 2x Lupine Prototypes and a Frogmite on the table by turn 2. Turn 3 was lethal damage.

    The second game I had similar results but with all 4x Salvage Titans and 3x Lupine Prototypes on the table by turn three and that was after I had already dealt lethal "goldfish" damage.

    Awesome deck! It's an aggro deck but it feels and plays more like combo. Very cool!

    I was surprised how handy the Gustha's Scepters turned out to be for activating my Prototypes. Also, Lion's Eye Diamond tricks are tight here. I only tested two games, both of which Chimeric Mass' was dropped for 0 and only used for sacking to Salvage Titans. I'm sure their other uses come in handy too.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  9. #9
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    both of which Chimeric Mass' was dropped for 0 and only used for sacking to Salvage Titans. I'm sure their other uses come in handy too.
    I was wondering about Chimeric Mass too, compared to other 0cc artifacts, but there are probably enough games where you crack LEDs into big mana and can make a 6/6-9/9 that dodges Terminus.

    Terminus seems like one of the biggest problems for this deck. It's always the problem for explosive aggro, but even moreso for this deck because it puts Salvage Titan onto the bottom instead of the graveyard. The bottom is literally the worst place. You'll have to Forge through your entire deck to get them back, then risk decking out before you kill them.

    Chimeric Mass must help a lot vs Terminus. Can you board into anything else? Chalice of the Void @ 1 disrupts their cantrips, though they will board into Force of Negation so with 6 turn 0 answers Chalice may not resolve. What about a resistor? Is Lodestone Golem too expensive? Defense Grid?

    The SB probably also wants 3-4 Silent Gravestone, because most other Brainstorm decks will be gunning for Titan with Surgical Extraction. Gravestone is a low cc artifact. Seems like an elegant solution.

  10. #10

    Re: Forge Bots

    Thank you all for your questions and comments. I will try my best to answer them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draggo View Post
    With zero 1-cmc main deck and 8 sol-lands + petal/mox it's hard not want main deck Chalice.
    But I can see the reasoning of not wanting to pay mana. Might be better to swap the Scepter for Chalice and the Titan and Lupine for the mentioned Enforcer and Breaker (or perhaps Mycosynth Golem). That way you can cast your stuff for free and have the Chalice protection main deck.
    I agree with you Draggo that Chalice of the Void can be played in the main deck. If I were to take out something out to add Chalice of the Void to the main deck I would pick Chimeric Mass over Gustha's Scepter because it is more valuable to Forge Bots. My rationale for putting Chalice of the Void in the sideboard is that it may not always be beneficial on the play. On game one you never really know what the opponent is playing and if Chalice of the Void is useful or beneficial to the deck. I chose to play the Salvage Titan/Lupine Prototype build over the Myr Enforcer/Barricade Breaker build because I found that seven mana was too much to play out on turn one and that they would often get stuck on top of the library too often when using Mystic Forge. Salvage Titan and Lupine Prototype can be cast together on turn one and usually go more smoothly with Mystic Forge. I would be happy to hear any feedback if someone were to experiment with any kind of build.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Could Shield Sphere be better than Memnite? I don't see a 1/1 attacker being very relevant but a 0/6 helps protect your life in racing situations. If Depths is popular enough in your meta, you might even want Ornithopter just to chump Marit Lage (also Emrakul and Griselbrand).
    Thank you for your question FTW. I think Memnite is better than Shield Sphere because Forge Bots want to be as aggressive as possible. Getting multiple creatures fast out and pressuring the opponent to be on the defensive, you usually do not want to be on defense yourself. You have changed my mind to make a change to the side board because of your Dark Depths/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn/Griselbrand concern; with the right combination they can outrace Forge Bots. I am going to take out a Welding Jar from the side board and am going to put in a Karakas. Along with Pithing Needles it may be enough to slow down large creature combo decks for Forge Bots to win. Ornithopter is cool but I can see adding other card may be more beneficial.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Edit: I was also going to suggest MD Chalice, because Chalice @1 seems amazing, but I can see why it's in the SB. Chalice looks awkward while "going off". You may not have 2 mana. If you cast it for 0, it shuts down your whole deck. Revealed off Mystic Forge or stuck in hand with Lupine, both can get awkward. You have to make a calculated decision if Chalice will shut down their deck more than it slows down yours.
    I am happy that you can see why I put Chalice of the Void in the side board. I agree with the above statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    This is very cool. I like that the deck looks powerful while using a lot of cards that don't normally see play. I also like the ways in which you're making use of LED.
    Thank you for your comment BirdsOfParadise, I also enjoy Forge Bots for those reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Would the inclusion of Painter's Servant + Grindstone raise the curve too much? An "oops I win" combo could serve as a backup plan to attacking on the ground. I could imagine scenarios where this deck is comboing with Mystic Forge and fast mana but doesn't have time to win via the combat step because an enemy board wipe or combo is incoming.
    You make an excellent suggestion BirdsOfParadise for adding Painter's Servant and Grindstone in the deck. I do not believe those cards would interfere much with the mana in Forge Bots for their benefit. I have considered adding those cards as an alternate win condition but I think I found a better alternative win condition so I did not mention the milling combo. Just adding one Aetherflux Reservoir to the main deck gives you an alternate win condition to Forge Bots without making any significant changes to the deck, also there is room in the side board for one if you choose not to play it main deck. Here is how it works but does require Mystic Forge. Play a Mystic Forge and start playing cards off of the top of your library. Notice how Aetherflux Reservoir's life gain starts to keep track of the spells you cast from the start of the turn much like how you count for the storm ability. With Mystic Forge you will eventually find a Aetherflux Reservoir or even an Inventors' Fair to tutor for one. If you say find Aetherflux Reservoir seventh from the top, you would already have played seven spells, you next spell will give you eight life, the next one nine life and so fourth. Easily you will get to fifty life where you can then deal fifty damage to the opponent and win the game. I think of it as an artifact storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Secretly I'm asking this question because if the deck already has Lotus Petal/LED/Baubles, and you found a way to fit in Painter's Servant, then you could also shoehorn in Reap, and then you'd have a deck that could win via the combat step or Painter's Servant + Grindstone or a Painter's Servant + Reap loop.
    Very interesting combo BirdsOfParadise! This makes me thing of the card Drafna's Restoration with a Mystic Forge on the battlefield. Return as many artifact to the top of your library as you like and then cast them all with Mystic Forge.

    [PHP]BirdsOfParadise
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Any use for Gaea's Cradle as a 1-of or 2-of? Do you get enough creatures fast for it to be kind of like a Sol land?
    Any use for Experimental Frenzy as functional extra copies of the Mystic Forge engine?
    Very interesting questions. I have considered using Gaea's Cradle but it is dependent upon at least having two creatures already on the battlefield to have any additional benefit. When testing Forge Bots I found that I would not have enough creatures early enough to for Gaea's Cradle, that Forge Bots does not need that much mana and that Forge Bots already produces enough mana. I have found that I do get enough creatures out for Gaea's Cradle to act as a Sol land but only after I have played resources to already cast everything that is in my hand. Gaea's Cradle is really good as a second land drop to have lots of mana but by then I find that I already have enough mana.

    I have not experimented with Experimental Frenzy but it can be used as extra copies of Mystic Forge. There would have to be alterations to Forge Bots to produce additional red mana to accommodate Experimental Frenzy. Gustha's Scepter and Lion's Eye Diamond may be enough to keep Lupine Prototype attacking since Experimental Frenzy keep you from casting the cards you would have in your hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    Awesome deck! It's an aggro deck but it feels and plays more like combo. Very cool!
    Thank you very much for your compliment Laser Brains! I have tried very hard to make an original deck in my past 25 years of playing Magic and it is good to be recognized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    I was surprised how handy the Gustha's Scepters turned out to be for activating my Prototypes. Also, Lion's Eye Diamond tricks are tight here. I only tested two games, both of which Chimeric Mass' was dropped for 0 and only used for sacking to Salvage Titans. I'm sure their other uses come in handy too.
    Chimeric Mass was the last card that I added to Forge Bots. I wanted a creature that could also be zero mana and that could take advantage if I have an abundance of mana. I have consider putting in Welding Jar, Lodestone Bauble and Engineered Explosives in place of it but I found Chimeric Mass to be the best choice.

    Thank again for all of your comments and questions and I will try to keep up with many more in the future. It is because of people like you that new decks are thought of, improved upon, evolved and then mastered.

    Keep on castin,

    Daniel Worobec

  11. #11

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I was wondering about Chimeric Mass too, compared to other 0cc artifacts, but there are probably enough games where you crack LEDs into big mana and can make a 6/6-9/9 that dodges Terminus.

    Terminus seems like one of the biggest problems for this deck. It's always the problem for explosive aggro, but even moreso for this deck because it puts Salvage Titan onto the bottom instead of the graveyard. The bottom is literally the worst place. You'll have to Forge through your entire deck to get them back, then risk decking out before you kill them.

    Chimeric Mass must help a lot vs Terminus. Can you board into anything else? Chalice of the Void @ 1 disrupts their cantrips, though they will board into Force of Negation so with 6 turn 0 answers Chalice may not resolve. What about a resistor? Is Lodestone Golem too expensive? Defense Grid?

    The SB probably also wants 3-4 Silent Gravestone, because most other Brainstorm decks will be gunning for Titan with Surgical Extraction. Gravestone is a low cc artifact. Seems like an elegant solution.
    Thank you for your message FTW. I think I have some answers.

    I do like Chimeric Mass because it is optional for it become a creature and dodge Terminus. In regards to Terminus, Forge Bots can recover from a Terminus with a Mystic Forge. The post Terminus turn can be used to put multiple creatures on the battlefield. When using Mystic Forge you usually do not want to play as many creatures as possible you want to play just enough creatures to win the games, so make you reserve future creatures and not deck yourself. Remember that you can stop casting card from the top of your library with Mystic Forge, you don't have to deck yourself. Also if an opponent is playing Terminus in their deck it will usually be a control deck with many turn open that you can attack; you don't all have to do it in one turn with 20+ power worth of creatures. Null Brooch can be put in the sideboard to deal with threats such as Terminus.

    In regards to putting Silent Gravestone in the sideboard to protect Salvage Titan. I would say just let Salvage Titan go, there are plenty of more creatures in Forge Bots to win the game with.

    Thank you again for your questions and please let me know if my answers have helped in any way or if you have any other questions.

  12. #12

    Re: Forge Bots

    Any thought given yet to Molten Nursery? It's a colorless nonland, so you can cast it off the top with Mystic Forge in play.

    Edit: I also turned up Kozilek's Sentinel, which is almost kind of (??) a Lupine Prototype lookalike, and Slip Through Space, which can force through damage.

    Edit2: Sky Scourer is like Kozilek's Sentinel but better, and Nettle Drone is a bit like Molten Nursery but different --- it clocks opponents faster but doesn't ping their creatures.

  13. #13

    Re: Forge Bots

    Even thought there are good arbuments in putting the Chalice to Side, I think you should reconsider.

    Goldfishing is all fun and games. But a single counter on the Mystic Force or a Plow on Salvage Titan just makes you look slly when playing. Chalice both draws out counters and protects from Push/Plow and alike. Not to mention crippeling the cantrip-suite of blue decks. If it's good enough to be played in any stompy build since the moment it's been printed, it should be good enough to play here and be the protecting rock this deck really needs.

    Anyway. Good luck. I'll keep an eye on the topic since I love to play stupid stuff like Salvage Titan.

  14. #14

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Worobec View Post
    Chimeric Mass was the last card that I added to Forge Bots. I wanted a creature that could also be zero mana and that could take advantage if I have an abundance of mana. I have consider putting in Welding Jar, Lodestone Bauble and Engineered Explosives in place of it but I found Chimeric Mass to be the best choice.
    Okay, so I had a chance to goldfish a bit more with the deck and I did actually have several hands where Chimeric Mass was super useful as a beater. Often I had him on the table turn one with 4-6 counters. When I need a beater he's great and when I need to cycle with Mystic Forge he can later be sacked to Salvage Titan.

    Chalice needs to be tested main deck (if you haven't done so already). It will get in the way though when you need to cycle with Mystic Forge and don't have mana. You certainly don't want to drop it for zero and hose your whole game plan.

    Birds of Paradise's suggestion of Molten Nursery and Sky Scourer seem plausible with some testing. You'd have to cut Inventor's Fair and Blast Zone for Mountains though. Not sure if they're a good enough addition to warrant that. Plus you'd have to cut one of your beaters to fit them in. Also, they could stall you when you need to cycle with Forge.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  15. #15
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    Birds of Paradise's suggestion of Molten Nursery and Sky Scourer seem plausible with some testing.
    Although they are colorless nonlands, they are not artifacts. They work with Mystic Forge, but not with Salvage Titan or Mox Opal or Inventors' Fair. They do trigger off your spells, but there is a drawback, and they require colored mana.

    The other problem is they don't count spells cast before, only ones cast afterwards. If you have to dig a while to find them, none of those other spells count. Aetherflux Reservoir is an artifact and counts every spell before too. Reservoir deserves a slot before either of those spells.

  16. #16

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Although they are colorless nonlands, they are not artifacts. They work with Mystic Forge, but not with Salvage Titan or Mox Opal or Inventors' Fair. They do trigger off your spells, but there is a drawback, and they require colored mana.

    The other problem is they don't count spells cast before, only ones cast afterwards. If you have to dig a while to find them, none of those other spells count. Aetherflux Reservoir is an artifact and counts every spell before too. Reservoir deserves a slot before either of those spells.
    All fair points. I was searching for Devoid cards since they work with Mystic Forge, and I shared my best finds, but they’re not necessarily optimal. Aetherflux Reservoir is probably the best win condition that avoids the combat step. However, despite the drawbacks of requiring colored mana and not being an artifact, Molten Nursery does more against creature decks than Aetherflux Reservoir does. So it might have its uses as a SB card and/or in a red version of the deck.

    Blast Zone is probably too good to give up though.

  17. #17

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Draggo View Post
    Even thought there are good arbuments in putting the Chalice to Side, I think you should reconsider.

    Goldfishing is all fun and games. But a single counter on the Mystic Force or a Plow on Salvage Titan just makes you look slly when playing. Chalice both draws out counters and protects from Push/Plow and alike. Not to mention crippeling the cantrip-suite of blue decks. If it's good enough to be played in any stompy build since the moment it's been printed, it should be good enough to play here and be the protecting rock this deck really needs.

    Anyway. Good luck. I'll keep an eye on the topic since I love to play stupid stuff like Salvage Titan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    Chalice needs to be tested main deck (if you haven't done so already). It will get in the way though when you need to cycle with Mystic Forge and don't have mana. You certainly don't want to drop it for zero and hose your whole game plan.
    I do admit that I have been mostly goldfighing Forge Bots but the tournaments I have played it in Chalice of the Void was very good in it. I hear and appreciate everyone’s opinion of having Chalice of the Void in the main deck. Soon I am going update the original post to include a separate but equally important version of Forge Bots that includes Chalice of the Void in the main deck. I am also going to start testing out Chalice of the Void both in tournaments and goldfishing to see it is better in the main deck than in the sideboard. The alternate deck will have the following changes made to it:

    Main deck Forge Bots with Chalice:

    +4 Chalice of the Void
    -4 Urza’s Bauble

    Sideboard Forge Bots with Chalice:

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    +3 Warping Wail
    +1 Karakas

    I will make the changes to the first post after I get some sleep tonight along with some rationale.

    There has also been some interest in adding colored creatures to Forge Bots. I have found Glaze Fiend to be pretty good.

    Thank you to everyone who has contributed towards Forge Bots. I look forward to future thoughts, questions and opinions.

  18. #18
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    Re: Forge Bots

    I have ordered some cards to start goldfishing. :-)

    Are there any video's of this new deck?

    Some idea's to manipulate the top of your library:

    Artificer's Assistant
    Smuggler's Copter

    Best regards,

  19. #19

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Headshot View Post
    I have ordered some cards to start goldfishing. :-)

    Are there any video's of this new deck?

    Some idea's to manipulate the top of your library:

    Artificer's Assistant
    Smuggler's Copter

    Best regards,
    I have not see any videos of Forge Bots yet, the deck premiered just last week.

    Artificer's Assistant and Smuggler's Copter are ideas I have not considered. Thank you for your recommendation.

    If anyone else knows of any videos of Forge Bots I am also curious.

  20. #20

    Re: Forge Bots

    There has been some debate as to what version of Forge Bots is better, Forge Bots with Chalice of the Void in the main deck and Forge Bots with Chalice of the Void in the side board. The purpose of this post is to provide information to aid in the decision as to which version is preferred.

    Method:

    Information has been gathered from www.mtggoldfish.com on the Legacy tournaments since January 17, 2020, on decks that have placed well, with an analysis of 236 decks.

    Legacy Challenge#12076817 – Includes the top 32 decks
    Legacy League 2020-01-25 – Includes decks that won 5/5 matches
    Legacy Preliminary #12076802 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better
    Legacy Preliminary #12077102 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better
    Legacy Preliminary #12071865 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better
    Legacy Challenge # 12071845 – Includes the top 32
    Legacy Premier #12071821 – Includes the top 16
    Legacy League 2020-01-18 – Includes decks that won 5/5 matches
    Buffalo Chicken Dip Legacy 3 2020-01-18 – Includes the top 32 decks
    Legacy Preliminary #12071831 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better

    A total of 236 were analyzed to determine the total number of cards within the deck with converted mana cost (CMC) one, two and three. These three mana costs were chosen because Forge Bots has no CMC one, only 4 CMC two and no CMC three cards within the main deck. With these limited low number of converted mana costs in Forge Bots, adding four copies of Chalice of the Void to the main deck or sideboard is ideal. The main drawback of adding Chalice of the Void to the main deck is that it is a card with that will cost mana since casting it for no mana would be disastrous to Forge Bots as described on the original post.

    Data:

    In choosing the cards to include within the calculations, cards were not included or added for the following reasons:

    -IF the card is not likely going to be cast and used for other purposes in limited circumstances such as Elvish Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide and Bridge from Below
    -If Chalice of the Void is not going to have an impact on the card being cast, such as not being able to be countered like Abrupt Decay
    -Cards with the adventure subtype are counted twice such as Brazen Borrower and Petty Theft
    -Cards will be excluded if there is no way cast them such as in Manaless Dredge but will include the cards that can be cast with alternative means such as Cabal Therapy
    -Cards with X in their mana costs are excluded since the X card can get around Chalice of the Void

    Total # of decks included = 236
    Total # of CMC=1 in all decks = 3272
    Total # of CMC=2 in all decks = 2065
    Total # of CMC=3 in all decks = 1326

    Average # of CMC=1 in all decks = 13.86
    Average # of CMC=2 in all decks = 8.75
    Average # of CMC=3 in all decks = 5.62
    Total # of CMC= 1, 2 and 3 in all decks = 28.23

    % of CMC=1 cards in all decks = 23.11%
    % of CMC=2 cards in all decks = 14.58%
    % of CMC=3 cards in all decks = 9.36%
    Total % of CMC= 1, 2 and 3 in all decks = 47.05%

    Findings:

    Analysis of 236 deck that are recent and that have placed well in tournaments is a reasonable sample size. Percentage of CMC 1, 2, and 3 of cards in all decks are 23.11%, 14.58% and 9.36% in retrospect and the Total percentage of CMC 1, 2 and 3 cards in all deck is 47.05%. With a large percentage of cards being countered by Chalice of the Void in comparison to only four Lupine Prototypes within the main deck for Forge Bots, it is my opinion that I prefer having four copies of Chalice of the Void in the main deck rather than in the sideboard. After goldfishing Forge Bots with four copies of Chalice of the Void in the main deck verses in the sideboard as listed in the original post, the disadvantage of Forge Bots with Chalice of the Void in the main deck being slower than the version with Chalice of the Void in the sideboard; the advantages of Chalice of the Void in the main deck outweigh the disadvantages.

    Comments from other readers would be greatly appreciated and welcome.

    Other information:

    The total number of decks with four copies of Chalice of the Void in the total 236 is 47. 19.91% of the deck within the sample have four copies of Chalice of the Void in them.

    Daniel Worobec

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