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Thread: Forge Bots

  1. #21

    Re: Forge Bots



    I have been looking at the tournaments on MTGGoldfish.com and at my current sideboard for Forge Bots. Soul-Guide Lantern looks like a good card to add to the side board and I am wondering if I could get some feedback from people as to add come copies to the side board? Here is the data from the top performing decks in eleven tournaments since January 31st 2020:

    45 of 241 or 18.7% decks are reliant on using the graveyard
    34 of 241 or 14.1% decks are somewhat reliant on using the graveyard
    162 of 241 or 67.25 decks are not reliant on using the graveyard

    So adding Soul-Guide Lantern to the sideboard will effect 32.7% (roughly on third) of current decks.

    Adding Soul-Guide Lantern could be used against faster decks like Reanimator, Jeski Breach, Dredge and Hogaak. Soul-Guide Lantern can also be used to draw cards and to draw the card off the top of your library if it stops you from using Mystic Forge. The downside is that it will take the place of another sideboard card, costs one to cast and can be countered by your own Chalice of the Void. The sideboard already has four Tormodís Crypt but I think adding Soul-Guide Lantern may also be beneficial.

    Here is my current list:

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Lupine Prototype
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite
    4x Chimeric Mass
    4x Mishraís Bauble
    4x Gusthaís Scepter
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Lionís Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    3x Blast Zone
    1x Inventorsí Fair

    Side Board:

    2x Warping Wail
    4x Tormodís Crypt
    4x Engineered Explosives
    3x Pithing Needle
    2x Karakas


    Again I asking for feedback and opinions from fellow players to see if Soul-Guide Lantern should be in Forge Botís side board? Thank you.

  2. #22

    Re: Forge Bots

    New cards for Forge Bots:



    Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths and Commander 2020 has brought Forge Bots three new cards, Umori, the Collector, Gyruda, Doom of Depths and Nesting Grounds. Forge Bots takes full advantage of the new Companion ability with two creatures you can add to the sideboard where Forge Bots meets both of the companion requirments.

    Umori, the Collector: This card is excellent for Forge Bots. After goldfishing Forge Bots several times with the new cards I find that Umori, the Collector is cast usually on turn one or two thanks to the fast mana and Lionís Eye Diamond. Because Forge Bots empties its hand fast, Lionís Eye Diamondís discard penalty is usually not a problem. Mystic Forge really takes advantage of Umori, the Collectorís ability to reduce the mana cost for artifacts, allowing you to cast far more spells using Mystic Forge. Lionís Eye Diamond is not required to cast Umori, the Collector, there is enough fast mana in Forge Bots to cast him without discarding your hand. Forge Bots is now more consistent with getting multiple large creatures onto the battlefield, fast.

    Gyruda, Doom of Depths: I included this card in the sideboard because it can be more appropriate than Umori, the Collector against certain decks but I believe Umori, the Collector is a better companion overall. Choosing Gyruda, Doom of Depths is good against other creature decks such as Eldrazi and decks containing Griselbrand like Reanimator and Show and Tell decks. Having a 6/6 Gyruda, Doom of Depths can handle a 5/5 Reality Smasher and a 4/4 Thought-Knot Seer while also being able to get an opponentís Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Mimic or one of your own Salvage Titans, Lupine Prototype, Frogmite or Memnite onto the battlefield for free. The same goes for an opponentís Griselbrand. If you have Mystic Forge on the battlefield and a Salvage Titan is on the top of your library, cast Gyruda, Doom of Depths from your sideboard for twelve power worth of creatures.

    Nesting Grounds: This version of Forge Bots contains 4x Chalice of the Void, 4x Engineered Explosives, 4x Chimeric Mass and a Blast Zone. Nesting Grounds gives you the ability to exchange charge counters of a network of artifacts that counters spells, destroys permanents and makes creatures larger. Being able to adjust your Chalice of the Void or Engineered Explosives can be a large advantage if later you find out what kind of deck your opponent is using. Also Chalice of the Void usually in 20% to 35% of decks and if your opponent casts it for zero, it can significantly slow down Forge Bots. If your opponent has a Chalice of the Void on the battlefield with no charge counters on it, you can move a charge counter from one of your thirteen cards that can produce them onto your opponentís Chalice of the Void, potentially turning their own Chalice against them since Forge Bots has no converted mana cost one or three cards in it.

    This is the current deck list I have. I will be testing this version on MTGO when the cards are out and later upgrade the first Forge Bots post.

    Main Deck:

    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Gusthaís Scepter
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Engineered Explosives
    4x Chimeric Mass
    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Lupine Prototype
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite
    4x Lionís Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x Nesting Grounds
    1x Blast Zone
    1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Sideboard:

    1x Umori, the Collector
    1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
    4x Tormodís Crypt
    3x Sorcerous Spyglass
    2x Ethersworn Canonist
    2x Karakas
    2x Welding Jar

  3. #23

    Re: Forge Bots

    I have updated the first post to include new cards and changes.

    Feedback is welcome.

  4. #24

    Re: Forge Bots

    I think Forge Bots is a deck now.



    Now that Modern Horizonís 2 came out with Urzaís Saga and Diamond Lion and adding in Echo of Eons, I think the following, upgraded Forge Bots list below is tournament worthy.

    The new version has lots of mana, lots of draw, many free creatures, along with Chalice of the Void and a Companion.

    Forge Bots version 3.0:

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Memnite
    4x Frogmite
    3x Diamond Lion
    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Echo of Eons
    4x Mishraís Bauble
    2x Urzaís Bauble
    4x Chalice of the Void
    3x Welding Jar
    4x Urzaís Saga
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Lionís Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal

    Sideboard:

    1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
    4x Tormodís Crypt
    4x Engineered Explosives
    3x Sorcerous Spyglass
    2x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Karakas

  5. #25

    Re: Forge Bots

    This deck is a riot! I remember play testing this when you were first developing it. I loved it then and love now! I just threw this up on my goldfishing app and first turn I had a Chalice set at 1, a Salvage Titan and 2x Frogmites in play. It's explosive no doubt! Great ingenuity! Sagas look good here and the Echos really add a lot! It seems like it tends to stall a bit more than it did (if I'm remembering playing your older builds correctly) but that is circumvented with the Echos. Diamond Lions are great here!

    I was thinking about the fact that Mystic Forge lets you peek at the top card of your library and wondered if Codex Shredder wouldn't suck here. It only cost one and Shredder could help assist nixing the top card of your library when you stall out with Mystic Forge.

    Another thought is Lantern of Insight. It's main ability (looking at the top card of your library) isn't super great here but it's secondary ability which lets you shuffle when you stall out doesn't suck at all.

    Both together do awesome shit. Not only for helping you go off but also for nixing your opponent's Terminus or other major threat your opponent might come up with.

    The deck is amazing as it is, so I wouldn't want to change to much, but those options might be worth looking into.

    Have you had a chance to test it against the gauntlet?
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  6. #26

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    This deck is a riot! I remember play testing this when you were first developing it. I loved it then and love now! I just threw this up on my goldfishing app and first turn I had a Chalice set at 1, a Salvage Titan and 2x Frogmites in play. It's explosive no doubt! Great ingenuity! Sagas look good here and the Echos really add a lot! It seems like it tends to stall a bit more than it did (if I'm remembering playing your older builds correctly) but that is circumvented with the Echos. Diamond Lions are great here!

    I was thinking about the fact that Mystic Forge lets you peek at the top card of your library and wondered if Codex Shredder wouldn't suck here. It only cost one and Shredder could help assist nixing the top card of your library when you stall out with Mystic Forge.

    Another thought is Lantern of Insight. It's main ability (looking at the top card of your library) isn't super great here but it's secondary ability which lets you shuffle when you stall out doesn't suck at all.

    Both together do awesome shit. Not only for helping you go off but also for nixing your opponent's Terminus or other major threat your opponent might come up with.

    The deck is amazing as it is, so I wouldn't want to change to much, but those options might be worth looking into.

    Have you had a chance to test it against the gauntlet?
    Thank you for your kind words Laser Brains, it is good to see people taking an interest in Forge Bots.

    I agree with you that using Mystic Forge is a bit more sluggish than my earlier versions of Forge Bots but with the addition of Echo of Eons and Urzaís Saga, Forge Bots is not as reliant on Mystic Forge in the newest and Mystic Forge can still be explosive, on multiple turns.

    When I first designed Forge Bots I heavily considered using a Lantern of Insight control strategy that used cards like Codex Shredder. The advantages of adding Codex Shredder to the new list would be good with Urzaís Saga fetching it, putting Echo of Eons in the graveyard and use to mill with Mystic Forge as you mentioned. The disadvantages of using Codex Shredder and to some degree Lantern of Insight would be that it can be countered with Chalice of the Void as I find the most common amount of charge counters on it is one. Another disadvantage is that I cannot use Gyruda, Doom of Depths as a companion, which really seems to be very useful with all the fast mana. Also as I mentioned earlier is that the new version of Forge Bots does not rely on Mystic Forge as much so adding cards to help Mystic Forge being more effective might take up spots of other cards that may be more useful. But all this is my speculation and I have not tested using a Lantern control package. I do believe using Codex Shredder and Lantern of Insight is worth looking into, one of my greatest joys in life is to see people prove me wrong and to innovate.
    As for answering you question of if I have tested it, I have only goldfished it at this point. I would like to test it out in paper tournaments but the pandemic is in the way and I still have to get the rest of the cards on MTGO. I always welcome people to test Forge Bots or any version of Forge Bots and share their feedback.

    I thank you again for your interest Laser Brains as well as everyone else!

  7. #27

    Re: Forge Bots

    Good call with Shredder being a one drop nombo with Chalice. I think iíd leave it as it is. Plus you canít play your companion.

    I might Proxy this up and play it next Friday. Looks like I will most likely be playing against Jund and Bant Control. Iíll let you know how it does. Any other decks youíd like me to test it against? Weíve got pretty much the entire gauntlet proxied up.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  8. #28

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    Good call with Shredder being a one drop nombo with Chalice. I think iíd leave it as it is. Plus you canít play your companion.

    I might Proxy this up and play it next Friday. Looks like I will most likely be playing against Jund and Bant Control. Iíll let you know how it does. Any other decks youíd like me to test it against? Weíve got pretty much the entire gauntlet proxied up.
    I would greatly appreciate any feedback from play testing. I am not too sure of any other decks to test against. I am concerned with cards that can shut down Forge Bots like not being to attack with Ensnaring Bridge and how Forge Bots deal with threats since the amount of removal available to it is slim. I have been tinkering with using Engineered Explosives in place of Welding Jar as a means of removal but I find Engineered Explosives not being useful with the available mana; Engineered Explosives is in the side board mostly for Chalice of the Void. I am unsure of the side board and I would like to refine it. Warping Wail may be good in the sideboard. I have also been wondering if I should add one or more Aetherflux Reservoir to the sideboard as an alternative win condition? With the amount of card draw Forge Bots has, you probably don't need a tutor for it and over one or more turns with Mystic Forge it can win the game.

  9. #29

    Re: Forge Bots

    Have you goldfished with Aetherflux Resevoir? Does it feel like you can gain 30+ life within the first few turns to secure this victory? If not, I wonder if there's a way to power out a ton of life with your shell to make this the main win con.

    What about Karn, the Great Creator? You don't want to run too many 4 drops but Karn seems not shitty here. Especially with all of the LEDs running around. Tutor a card with Karn, crack an LED in response for mana to cast it.

    After play testing your deck the first thing that crossed my mind was "storm kill". Tutors in combination with LED such as Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, Intuition, etc.. seem like they'd be perfect for searching up a storm spell for the finish. Have you toyed with these options? I'm trying to think of other ways to take advantage of your LEDs since you're running 7 of them.

    I'm loving your original deck and honestly don't think it needs a whole lot of work, if any. The deck powers out dudes and threats fast. Just curious if you toyed with any of those options.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  10. #30
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Is it worth playing 4x Karn, the Great Creator here? You don't have to play the full usual Karn package, but it would still give you access to 1x of cards like Aetherflux Reservoir (alternate wincon) or 1x Mycosynth Lattice. It can also function as a wincon itself. You can get Reservoir only when it is good, without diluting the main plan much by running maindeck copies. It would also help you grab SB cards so you can cut down on copies to make space.

  11. #31

    Re: Forge Bots



    I have experimented with Karn, the Great Creator and I have reconsidered using it.

    Forge Bots:

    4x Karn, the Great Creator
    4x Chalice of the Void

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite

    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Mishraís Bauble
    4x Urzaís Bauble

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Urzaís Saga
    4x Lionís Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Grim Monolith

    Side Board:

    1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
    4x Tormodís Crypt
    3x Sorcerous Spyglass
    3x Defense Grid
    1x Karakas
    1x Mycosynth Lattice
    1x Aetherflux Reservoir
    1x Liquimetal Coating

    I have tested out this new version of Forge Bots and the results look quite promising. This version is not as explosive with creatures as the last version however it has a Karn, the Great Creator package which makes it more versatile in addition to winning with fast creatures. Forge Bots has always been a home for Karn, the Great Creator with the cards already in it. With the addition of Karn, the Great Creator, I can lock out the opponent fast with Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating, a one sided Null Rod, main deck answer to Chalice of the Void, tutor for side board cards and have access to Aetherflux Reservoir.

    Aetherflux Reservoir is a good alternative win condition. Mystic Forge has the capability to cast many spells in a turn, enough to get you to 50+ life easily to have Aetherflux Reservoir win you the game, even though you have life loss with four Ancient Tombs and four Mystic Forges. Think of Aetherflux Reservoir as a storm card like Tendrils of Agony in a storm deck, accept it is an artifact storm. The good part about Aetherflux Reservoir is that with Mystic Forge, it counts the spells cast before it so you donít have to play it and start the count after it has entered the battlefield. It can also be safer than storm decks since you can get to the fifty life over multiple turns so you donít kind of fizzle out. When compared to other storm decks Karn, the Great Creator is kind of like a wish spell to get the storm card out of your sideboard. Aetherflux Reservoir is also excellent for just gaining life if you are getting low to play out a late game.

  12. #32
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Karn, the Great Creator feels like the other engine, but the aggro plan seems about as good since everything comes out so quickly. From what Iíve read, Forge Bots can use the plenum of mana it has available more easily with an engine in play, ie Mystic Forge. Karn can only be used once unless you can play another.. If it only finds Aetherflux, then is a bit limited. It needs to engine or lock piece, when compared to the other 4 drop. Trinisphere after getting a bunch of dudes into play will get there.

    Mystic Forge is too powerful to move one to the board for Karn.

    From Karn to Aetherflux is 8. If it were another deck Iíd say thatís a lot of mana. It enables wins without the passing the turn or the combat phase.

    Alternatively and sort of similarly, for a higher cost..
    Phyrexian Devourer can remove the land (0 cmc) off the top each time you hit one with Mystic Forge so you would never run into a land. Basically you could play the rest of the deck. If at all, how often will this be better than just going straight to Aetherflux?

    Akromaís Memorial confers haste and flying. It could be a Karn target out of the board. Again, it doesnít seem like itís better than Aetherflux. Perhaps it would be more reasonable in a list with Lupine Prototype and Sojournerís Companion.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  13. #33

    Re: Forge Bots

    Thank you for your response Vacrix, your feedback is very insightful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Karn, the Great Creator feels like the other engine, but the aggro plan seems about as good since everything comes out so quickly. From what Iíve read, Forge Bots can use the plenum of mana it has available more easily with an engine in play, ie Mystic Forge. Karn can only be used once unless you can play another.. If it only finds Aetherflux, then is a bit limited. It needs to engine or lock piece, when compared to the other 4 drop. Trinisphere after getting a bunch of dudes into play will get there.
    You are right about Karn, the Great Creator being another engine. Of course Mystic Forge is the better engine but you donít get Mystic Forge in your hand all the time. Having Karn, the Great Creator creates not only an alternative win condition with Aetherflux Reservoir, it also gives you the option to play control with Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating, is an answer to your opponentís Chalice of the Void, is a one sided Null Rod, can animate artifacts to attack with and can get any artifact from your sideboard to deal with a variety of threats from the opponent by wishing for sideboard cards. I find that without Karn, the Great Creator in Forge Bots, the deck has very little options to deal with an opponentís threats. I also find that I can get multiple Karn, the Great Creator out in a turn with Mystic Forge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Mystic Forge is too powerful to move one to the board for Karn.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    From Karn to Aetherflux is 8. If it were another deck Iíd say thatís a lot of mana. It enables wins without the passing the turn or the combat phase.
    I like Aetherflux Reservoir as a plan B win condition because there are many ways the opponent can keep creatures from attacking and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Alternatively and sort of similarly, for a higher cost..
    Phyrexian Devourer can remove the land (0 cmc) off the top each time you hit one with Mystic Forge so you would never run into a land. Basically you could play the rest of the deck. If at all, how often will this be better than just going straight to Aetherflux?
    Thank you for recommending Phyrexian Devourer. I really like this idea! You are not just limited to Aetherflux Reservoir, you can use Karn, the Great Creator to get multiple artifacts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Akromaís Memorial confers haste and flying. It could be a Karn target out of the board. Again, it doesnít seem like itís better than Aetherflux. Perhaps it would be more reasonable in a list with Lupine Prototype and Sojournerís Companion.
    Akromaís Memorial is a great enabler for making creatures attack sooner. I would like to put out there though that Time Sieve I think is good for making Forge Bots faster. With a Mystic Forge out in play you can easily generate an additional five artifacts a turn, essentially you can get enough turns to win you the game.

    I have also considered adding Forsaken Monument to the side board.

    I am also looking for recommendations for cards to put in the side board.

  14. #34
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    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Worobec View Post
    Akromaís Memorial is a great enabler for making creatures attack sooner. I would like to put out there though that Time Sieve I think is good for making Forge Bots faster. With a Mystic Forge out in play you can easily generate an additional five artifacts a turn, essentially you can get enough turns to win you the game.

    I have also considered adding Forsaken Monument to the side board.

    I am also looking for recommendations for cards to put in the side board.
    Got one my dude; Uginís Nexus does a Time Sieve for 5 in colorless tutorable via Karn if you have a sac outlet like Salvage Titan. Also, you can play a second one to get the turns trigger via the Legend rule. This seems ideal in a list running Karn because you can tutor it again after you sac and exile it for an extra turn because Karn tutors from the board or exile. More synergies than running Akromaís Memorial since it confers an extra card, untap phase for Mystic Forge and artifact permanents, land drop, attack phase, and another go at playing out a portion of the deck with the potential to time walk again. Perhaps 2 in the board? My only concern would be having enough sac outlets in the maindeck, particularly when a sac outlet means Karn can function as a double time walk.

    Lightning Greaves and Diamond Lion in multiples go together to make a lot of mana. I imagine that Greaves doesnít have enough synergy in the maindeck tho. Any ideas on how to Haste the Lion in colorless? Uginís Nexus conferring extra turns works as pseudo haste but perhaps Lion could be online faster than that.


    EDIT:
    Just noticed a potential line in Mirror of Fate as a Karn tutorable. If you have Mystic Forge already, you can loop Salvage Titanís to exile mana producing artifacts from the graveyard like Lionís Eye Diamondís, then stack an up to 7 card Mirror pile as the deck, then play each of them off the top with the Mystic Forge. Seems like it would be more than enough to Karn into Aetherflux. Karn isnít an artifact means having another way to exile Karn, perhaps with Mystic Forge, though I think more exile synergies would have to be accounted for in this line. Double Karn gets one to the yard, but Salvage Titan only exiles artifacts. Multiple Mystic Forge is a bit costly but it does provide an additional exile of the top card. I feel like there is an easier way though. Perhaps Tormodís Crypt in the maindeck? Double Karn, sac one, Crypt your own yard, Karn for Mirror of Fate, stack the deck as an ideal 7, then via Mystic Forge, LED, LED, etc, Karn, find Aetherflux.

    EDIT 2:
    A potential line I just noticed with maindeck Crypt(s).
    Karn in play, play Crypt, LED, Petal, sac both to get to 4, discard Mystic Forge, Crypt your yard to exile Mystic Forge, Karn for the exiled Mystic Forge.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  15. #35

    Re: Forge Bots

    Well I have been spending a lot of time working on the sideboard, mostly cards for Karn, the Great Creator to search for. Here is an updated deck list:
    Forge Bots:

    4x Karn, the Great Creator
    4x Chalice of the Void

    4x Salvage Titan
    4x Frogmite
    4x Memnite

    4x Mystic Forge
    4x Mishraís Bauble
    4x Urzaís Bauble

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Urzaís Saga
    4x Lionís Eye Diamond
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Grim Monolith

    Side Board:

    1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
    1x Mycosynth Lattice
    1x Aetherflux Reservoir
    1x Liquimetal Coating
    1x Time Sieve
    4x Defense Grid
    3x Tormodís Crypt
    1x Sorcerous Spyglass
    1x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Karakas

    In regards to sideboard choices I have the following. Gyruda, Doom of Depths is good as a companion, Forge Bots generates a lot of mana and Gyruda, Doom of Depths is available at any time, it also can get one of 12 creatures from the main deck for free or even get an opponentís Griselbrand. Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating are hard and soft locks with Karn, the Great Creator. Aetherflux Reservoir is an alternate win condition and can also be used for just gaining lots of life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Got one my dude; Uginís Nexus does a Time Sieve for 5 in colorless tutorable via Karn if you have a sac outlet like Salvage Titan. Also, you can play a second one to get the turns trigger via the Legend rule. This seems ideal in a list running Karn because you can tutor it again after you sac and exile it for an extra turn because Karn tutors from the board or exile. More synergies than running Akromaís Memorial since it confers an extra card, untap phase for Mystic Forge and artifact permanents, land drop, attack phase, and another go at playing out a portion of the deck with the potential to time walk again. Perhaps 2 in the board? My only concern would be having enough sac outlets in the maindeck, particularly when a sac outlet means Karn can function as a double time walk.
    Vacrix has brought up a good point of using Uginís Nexus as an alternative to Time Sieve; I have also considered Gontiís Aether Heart. After testing all these options I found that Time Sieve was the most effective. Mystic Forge can generate an abundance of artifacts every turn but surprisingly cannot generate consistent mana every turn without considerable costs; most mana is one use, you can only have one City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb cases lots of life loss. Time Sieve is two mana and is fueled by the abundance of free artifacts that Mystic Forge generates every turn, even with four Salvage Titans. I have also found that playing Time Sieve, you may not need cards like Paradox Engine to help plow through the deck to play as many cards as you can and to fuel Aetherflux Reservoir. With the way Forge Bots is, having untap steps with one or more Mystic Forge(s) in play seems to be enough with Time Sieve to see enough of your deck and play enough cards to win the game; also giving you multiple attack steps and activations with Karn, the Great Creator.

    Defense Grid I am adding because there are just so much counter magic out there along with Force of Vigor. Forge Bots utilizes casting key cards at the cost of considerable resources in exchange for itís speed, such as going all in on a first turn Mystic Forge or Karn lock. Counter Magic can stall Forge Bots for a while.

    Tormodís Crypt is useful since Forge Bots will be competing with fast decks that use graveyards to fuel their speed.

    Sorcerous Spyglass is good for peeking at an opponentís hand as well as stopping some fast combo decks. It can also be found with Karn, the Great Creator.

    Ratchet Bomb is good to for removal. Since Forge Bots does not have any mana cost one or three cards and only four mana cost two cards that are expendable in the main deck, Ratchet Bomb is good for eliminating threats without effecting your deck too much.

    Karakas us a fast way to bounce large creatures that are cheated into play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Lightning Greaves and Diamond Lion in multiples go together to make a lot of mana. I imagine that Greaves doesnít have enough synergy in the maindeck tho. Any ideas on how to Haste the Lion in colorless? Uginís Nexus conferring extra turns works as pseudo haste but perhaps Lion could be online faster than that.
    I have experimented with additional mana sources including Doubling Cube and Jeweled Lotus. Forge Bots has the most effective mana sources available and I find that the 28 mana sources already in the deck seem to be enough considering the low amount of cards that actually need mana. I am however considering adding an artifact mana source to the side board for Karn, the Great Creator to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    EDIT:
    Just noticed a potential line in Mirror of Fate as a Karn tutorable. If you have Mystic Forge already, you can loop Salvage Titanís to exile mana producing artifacts from the graveyard like Lionís Eye Diamondís, then stack an up to 7 card Mirror pile as the deck, then play each of them off the top with the Mystic Forge. Seems like it would be more than enough to Karn into Aetherflux. Karn isnít an artifact means having another way to exile Karn, perhaps with Mystic Forge, though I think more exile synergies would have to be accounted for in this line. Double Karn gets one to the yard, but Salvage Titan only exiles artifacts. Multiple Mystic Forge is a bit costly but it does provide an additional exile of the top card. I feel like there is an easier way though. Perhaps Tormodís Crypt in the maindeck? Double Karn, sac one, Crypt your own yard, Karn for Mirror of Fate, stack the deck as an ideal 7, then via Mystic Forge, LED, LED, etc, Karn, find Aetherflux.
    This combo would work but it seems you have to get too many things going in order for it to work. I know there are many clever ways to chain combinations to utilize Aetherflux Reservoir, I think my current list is sufficient enough without having to add cards to make a more efficient combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    EDIT 2:
    A potential line I just noticed with maindeck Crypt(s).
    Karn in play, play Crypt, LED, Petal, sac both to get to 4, discard Mystic Forge, Crypt your yard to exile Mystic Forge, Karn for the exiled Mystic Forge.
    This is a good play. You can still achieve this combo without putting Tormodís Crypt in the main deck by exiling Mystic Forge with Salvage Titan. However it would work better with Tormodís Crypt.

  16. #36
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    Re: Forge Bots

    In regards to sideboard choices I have the following. Gyruda, Doom of Depths is good as a companion, Forge Bots generates a lot of mana and Gyruda, Doom of Depths is available at any time, it also can get one of 12 creatures from the main deck for free or even get an opponentís Griselbrand. Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating are hard and soft locks with Karn, the Great Creator. Aetherflux Reservoir is an alternate win condition and can also be used for just gaining lots of life.
    Not sure if you are aware or not but the companion mechanic received a very heavy nerf from wizards via errata. You can look up the errata on the gatherer to confirm.

    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...hanic-erratad/

    ďOnce per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.Ē


    So 3 + 4(B/U)(B/U) is 9 for Gyuda. That itís effect can miss on the mill suggests itís really not worth 9 mana.
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  17. #37

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Not sure if you are aware or not but the companion mechanic received a very heavy nerf from wizards via errata. You can look up the errata on the gatherer to confirm.

    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...hanic-erratad/

    ďOnce per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.Ē


    So 3 + 4(B/U)(B/U) is 9 for Gyuda. That itís effect can miss on the mill suggests itís really not worth 9 mana.
    Thank you for your comment Vacrix, I have been aware of the companion tax since it was released.

    Gyruda, Doom of Depths in Forge Bots is there to compliment the deck and not be a key card to play. Think of it as something always available to play if it is the best play to make. A companion is very handy to have and is sometimes worth the heavy cost of mana to cast on occasion and Forge Bots has the mana available to support it, sometimes even on turn one. I think the benefits of Gyruda, Doom of Depths is worth the side board slot for many reasons. It is not there primarily for the mill effect and Forge Bots does have four Mishraís Bauble and four Mystic Forge to look at the top of your deck. It may be worth the nine mana if a Salvage Titan is on the top of your deck and with Gyruda, Doom of Depths, a total of 12 power for nine mana it may be worth it. Alternatively if you use Mishraís Bauble on the opponentís deck and there is something like a Griselbrand there, I think it is an excellent play. Sometimes I even use Gyruda, Doom of Depths to mill a land so Mystic Forge can continue to engine out cards.

  18. #38

    Re: Forge Bots

    I've given it a few spins, and I think that the current version works more consistently than before. Karn, in particular, is great.

    But I'm still struggling to get 4 mana consistently to cast it or Forge, especially on T1 or T2. Am I just not mulling aggressively enough? Because the less explosive the start, the more I start worrying about what the other deck is doing, especially when their removal is online.
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  19. #39

    Re: Forge Bots

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen View Post
    I've given it a few spins, and I think that the current version works more consistently than before. Karn, in particular, is great.

    But I'm still struggling to get 4 mana consistently to cast it or Forge, especially on T1 or T2. Am I just not mulling aggressively enough? Because the less explosive the start, the more I start worrying about what the other deck is doing, especially when their removal is online.
    Thank you for your response Goanswerfraiejen.

    I agree with you that Forge Bots has more consistent threats with the addition of Karn, the Great Creator. One of the great things about Forge Bots is getting threats out early on turn one and two. Getting to four or more mana on the first couple of turns can be quite challenging, even in vintage where things can get a bit crazy. Yes you could try and mulligan more for that ideal hand and I think Forge Bots has a reasonable amount of fast mana to achieve getting a Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator out on turn one or two; I have used the best mana sources available to achieve this. But it does not work 100% of the time but the amount of times it does happen I think is quite reasonable when compared to other decks. I have always considered adding more lands to Forge Bots but it would decrease the amount of cards played when Mystic Forge is on the battlefield. I would like to encourage people to think that you do not need Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator to win. Forge Bots is designed to have explosive starts even without Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator. There are combinations of Salvage Titans, Frogmites and Memnites you can get in your opening hand. You can sometimes play these three creatures along with a Gyruda, Doom of Depths because of the 28 mana sources. And then there is Urzaís Saga for multiple large creatures, sometimes a single Urzaís Saga can win you the game. Also the four Mishraís Baubles and four Urzaís Baubles can help you to find a Mystic Forge and/or Karn, the Great Creator later in the game or even more creatures. And it does not end there. Forge Bots is designed that you can easily play Chalice of the Void fast with one, two and/or three charge counters on them with only effecting the four Grim Monoliths in the deck and Forge Bots can work perfectly fine without Grim Monoliths. Sometimes a Chalice of the Void with one counter on it can stop half the spells in an opponentís deck and playing additional ones with two and three counters on them can stop the opponent even more. You can also think of Chalice of the Void speeding up Forge Bots by slowing the opponent down, either for a fast win with creatures and/or with a Karn lock. I also worry about an opponent controlling the game as the game goes on but it does not happen all the time. Just have confidence in yourself and keep playing your best.

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