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Thread: Decks to Beat (2020-21) Discussion Thread

  1. #41
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    What is wrong with what was done by admins before??
    Why can't we just keep it simple and continue the same thing?
    Any other method will be as bad or worse because it will be as much or more biased.

    I just want an updated DTB section, I don't care if it's not completely exact.

  2. #42

    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    ...
    I just want an updated DTB section, I don't care if it's not completely exact.
    Plus, that's an impossible task. DTB depends on the meta you play, etc. MTGO is different from LGS and LGSs vary immensely, big tourneys are also much different, etc. Being a glass empyt kind of guy, not sure if a DTB section is not even a bit misleading.

  3. #43
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    What is wrong with what was done by admins before??
    Why can't we just keep it simple and continue the same thing?
    Any other method will be as bad or worse because it will be as much or more biased.

    I just want an updated DTB section, I don't care if it's not completely exact.
    It was suggested in this post that the list is bad, which I questioned: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1081486

    Then at least I moved on to discuss a potential alternative list, not a replacement. There was also some discussion about MTGO data being not good due to large influence of a few great players (which I don't see as a problem, personally, whatever).

    ... And you got an updated list, see first post, H is offering to keep updating it I think so that's great, I expressed my gratitude above which I recommend everyone do if they appreciate this effort.

  4. #44

    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    I vore for keeping the good old list going, if anyone is up to the task. Let’s not worry about the accuracy and just take it for what it is.

  5. #45
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    It was suggested in this post that the list is bad, which I questioned: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1081486

    Then at least I moved on to discuss a potential alternative list, not a replacement. There was also some discussion about MTGO data being not good due to large influence of a few great players (which I don't see as a problem, personally, whatever).

    ... And you got an updated list, see first post, H is offering to keep updating it I think so that's great, I expressed my gratitude above which I recommend everyone do if they appreciate this effort.
    Yes yes. don't worry, there was no personnal attacks.
    As the other poster before, i'm ok with keeping what exists with its flaws because doing something better would be a lot of work and maybe even impossible due to the lack of data.

  6. #46
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Yes yes. don't worry, there was no personnal attacks.
    Your questions were so general, they seemed to misinterpret some parts of the discussion, and didn't directly adress any of the posts in the thread, it appeared that you didn't read it thoroughly, so I presented a summary of relevant posts in relation to your comment. No attack perceived.

    @JackaBo: yes, H offered to do it in the first post of the thread, which is very nice. Thanks again, H!

  7. #47
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    I'm good with keeping this list too. Thanks H for offering to do it and putting in the work!

    I don't have a problem with the MTGO data or sticking with the old method. I was just responding to the comments about the ANT vs TES (and ways the whole Magic community could have better data). I would take the dominance of TES vs ANT with a grain of salt... but still be OK with the current DTB list.

  8. #48
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Well, for the time being, I will keep just doing this here. But still, in the end, I can't move threads.

    The only "qualifier" is that I think, once we have figured out the "Decks to Beat" we need to do a little subjective evaluation as to what threads pertain to those categories or not. In some cases this will be simple, but in others, it might not be quite so.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  9. #49
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Start updating here, for as long as you feel like it, and before long I predict you'll have adm rights.

  10. #50
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Your questions were so general, they seemed to misinterpret some parts of the discussion, and didn't directly adress any of the posts in the thread, it appeared that you didn't read it thoroughly, so I presented a summary of relevant posts in relation to your comment. No attack perceived.

    @JackaBo: yes, H offered to do it in the first post of the thread, which is very nice. Thanks again, H!
    In fact it was a reaction to all the "Good" Ideas given in this thread that were either very hard to implement or just completely Biased.
    I'm on the "If it works, don't change it" train (And indeed, for me it works).

  11. #51
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, for the time being, I will keep just doing this here. But still, in the end, I can't move threads.

    The only "qualifier" is that I think, once we have figured out the "Decks to Beat" we need to do a little subjective evaluation as to what threads pertain to those categories or not. In some cases this will be simple, but in others, it might not be quite so.
    I'm with you! thanks for the good work :) (And I hope you'll be a mod in the futur so you can do the real thing).

    PS: Wasn't there a thread or something like that asking us to name someone to be a mod?

  12. #52
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    PS: Wasn't there a thread or something like that asking us to name someone to be a mod?
    Yeah, it was in the B&R thread, which likely means some number of people might not have seen it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilla View Post
    Okay, fine. I'm hijacking this motherfucker. You want new mods? Send me a PM with your top 3 choices of members who you think have the temperament and dedication to the community to do the job. Feel free to explain why you think a person deserves consideration. Don't vote for yourself. If I'm seeing a lot of the same names, the administrative staff will discuss them as mod candidates. Go on then.
    I did send in three names (none of which were my own, just to be clear) but I don't know the outcome.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  13. #53
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I'm on the "If it works, don't change it" train (And indeed, for me it works).
    It appears everyone is agreeing with this. We can still discuss an alternative list, it doesn't mean we are unhappy with the existing one. It can be interesting to consider what an alternative list could look like, and how it can be created. There is probably no need to put down the foot and kill that discussion, it wasn't about to go overboard and change the existing DTB-list. Well, I guess that discussion died anyway but still.. Sorry if I'm overly sensitive about this, I'm just a little bit allergic to skeptical nay-sayers that have to kill every creative discussion in its cradle..

  14. #54
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    It appears everyone is agreeing with this. We can still discuss an alternative list, it doesn't mean we are unhappy with the existing one. It can be interesting to consider what an alternative list could look like, and how it can be created. There is probably no need to put down the foot and kill that discussion, it wasn't about to go overboard and change the existing DTB-list. Well, I guess that discussion died anyway but still.. Sorry if I'm overly sensitive about this, I'm just a little bit allergic to skeptical nay-sayers that have to kill every creative discussion in its cradle..
    Well, I don't think we need to be slavishly conservative to doing things as we did in the past, just because we did them in the past. I also would not say that we should think that change is "progress" necessarily, just because it would be different (and so by default notionally "better").

    To me, a little skepticism goes a long way in both establishing and re-establishing a Ground on which to base things. So, my questioning honestly does not mean to presuppose an answer either way. It was simply to gauge if we think it is still sufficient to justify the practice. I'm fine with either answer, so long as it is rationally justified.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    @H: ok

    Edit: actually, I couldn't find anything in your post that contradicts what I wrote. ;) I kept reading it to try to find what the counter-argument was. Your open for different ideas, I think that was the end message. That's great!

  16. #56
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    @H: ok

    Edit: actually, I couldn't find anything in your post that contradicts what I wrote. ;) I kept reading it to try to find what the counter-argument was. Your open for different ideas, I think that was the end message. That's great!
    Right, I was agreeing, essentially, but just noting that I don't think skepticism is bad, per se. But, like basically anything else, it can be used as a poor means and/or a spurious end.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  17. #57
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    @H: ok

    Edit: actually, I couldn't find anything in your post that contradicts what I wrote. ;) I kept reading it to try to find what the counter-argument was. Your open for different ideas, I think that was the end message. That's great!
    Hey: I'm open to different ideas too!! But they just all seemed wrong :)

  18. #58
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    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Well, it is March now, but results will likely still trickle in. So, next Monday (the 9th) I will run the numbers and post them.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  19. #59

    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Anyone interested in this any more?

    I wouldn't mind upkeeping it. I don't have access to the actual thread, nor can I move decks though.
    Thanks for doing this! I was very sad when dice stopped updating

  20. #60

    Re: Decks to Beat? (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, it is March now, but results will likely still trickle in. So, next Monday (the 9th) I will run the numbers and post them.
    We're eager to know what brainstorm shell is at the top!

    Call it my 6th sense, but I have a sneaky suspicion it might also include Delver of Secrets and Force of Will.

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