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Thread: Song of Creation Storm

  1. #141
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Looking more at the list Bryant tried, his video, a video from PunishingWaterfalls, and testing it myself, I don't like it. It mulligans so much more and has a higher chance of "do nothing" draw 7s (off Echo or Relay). There are several fizzles where you can't do anything after the Echo or Relay, passing many turns and trying to rebuild. Brain Freeze sometimes fails as a wincon. Access to colored mana is a bit unstable, leading to losses to mana denial & especially Null Rod/Ouphe. Mana stability improves a lot with the Brainstorm + fetch configuration. The build also has less protection, so it relies on things like all-in Narset + Echo hoping opponent has no interaction or misplays into Narset.

    One design choice I don't like in many Song brews is playing too many 0s, at the cost of space for other things. At first glance that seems necessary to not fizzle with Song, but it also leads to worse mulligans, Echos and Relays. In all my brewing and testing with the deck since Song was printed, I think it needs a fine balance between action and "free" stuff. Going too far in either direction damages consistency.

    The solution above is to have Saga & Narset as a fair backup plan when the "combo" side fails. But that's not necessary if the combo side is better tuned. Saga's a good fair backup plan but pretty bad in the combo lines as a colorless source and disappearing mana. Saga's also mana hungry, while the deck is mana-light. You're often forced to choose between making constructs or threatening storm lines, unable to do both at once due to the mana constraints. Overall I'm not impressed with Narset. It's strong if opponent misplays into it or if you have to rely on Echo + slow win. But it costs a lot of mana to dig, making it inefficient in the storm combo lines. With disappearing mana sources you really want 3 mana to draw 7 (Echo, Relay), not draw 2 over 2 turns.

    After more testing I cut Narset and put Gamble back

    //Lands: 12
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Taiga
    1 Island

    //Artifacts: 20
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Mox Opal
    1 Jeweled Amulet
    3 Defense Grid

    //Spells: 24
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Veil of Summer
    4 Gamble
    3 Repeal
    3 Burning Wish
    3 Galvanic Relay
    3 Echo of Eons

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Song of Creation

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Echo of Eons
    1 Galvanic Relay
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 By Force
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Consign // Oblivion
    1 Brazen Borrower
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm


    Gamble has many uses:
    - It sets up LED+Echo very reliably, letting you chain multiple Echos in a turn to storm off while Veil is still up.
    - It finds SB answers when you need them (with ~80% success, which is better than digging with Ponder or Narset)
    - It finds Burning Wish while you're going off, so you don't actually have to draw the whole deck with Song or Echo
    - If you have a business card in exile with Relay, it can find mana (with 50-80% consistency, again better than digging with Ponder or Narset) and without risking discarding the business card

    Most slots are self-explanatory.
    Flusterstorm is there for combo mirrors (board out Grid & board in Fluster + Surgical to disrupt) or to help protect the combo against heavy spell hate (board out Repeal, Fluster on own turn doesn't conflict with Grid).
    Borrower is for permanent bounce and backup fair wincon without wasting a slot.

  2. #142
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Chain of Vapor bounces moxes which can then also add mana, and as a Gamble tutorable CoV could even make some deck space since you prefer lists that are playing as many 0's. Its less mana intensive than Repeal. I don't see the symmetry being too much of a liability. Also, it can have synergy w Gamble if you want to bounce a bunch of Moxes to hand + tutor, which sounds like bouncing all the moxes the turn after you Galvanic Relay, and before you Gamble.

    In terms of 0's, Gustha's Scepter is a really neat piece I've been playing lately in cEDH. Its like a pseudo Wishclaw from hand to exile and back to hand. It could be used to save something in exile like Song of Creation so that you don't lose it to Gamble. I also have liked playing it with Burning Inquiry + Containment Construct, tho thats likely slightly too dangerous to play here due to Dredge.

    I've been brewing a new list of Pact SI with some neat tech that could have crossover here. Land Grant and Summoner's Pact can each find Dryad Arbor, often used for Culling the Weak in SI, but each also supports Mox Diamond as an IMS which supports Mox Opal. Its been excellent on draw chain lines and I could see it being about as useful here. Anyway, I would think that supporting Mox Diamond is ideal for a Song list because it also supports Mox Opal. You can get more mana under stax layers right away with more moxes.

    EDIT:
    I forgot to mention, Final Fortune is Gamble tutorable for an untap step, a land drop, and a cantrip for RR. Even if Song fails, you can untap all your mana sources, draw, and then Song confers an additional land drop. Its garbage against Chant would be my qualm with it.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Interesting suggestions.

    Chain of Vapor has some severe drawbacks, so I excluded it earlier in development. The biggest one is that they can bounce your Song. Bouncing Chrome Mox is also a pain. Chain doesn't answer Chalice @ 1. The mode of multi-bouncing your own artifacts is not that easy to pull off, since you generally need your lands (unless you're going off with Song, and then it's usually win-more).

    Maindeck Repeal is more useful than it looks. I was skeptical until I tested it. The card draw is very relevant. Bouncing opponent's early threat while cantripping is good tempo, basically a Time Walk. Things it answers for U while drawing a card: Chalice @ 0, Marit Lage, Kaldra germ, Saga construct. Repeal bouncing Mox (without Song) still cantrips for 0 and adds 2 storm, useful during setup or for a Galvanic Relay or desperation Empty the Warrens. Answering Chalice at any number is also big. Repeal is bad at answering Narset & Karn, and Chain would be better there, but the SB cards help. Maybe one of the Repeals could be a Chain, depending on what hate shows up.

    Game 1 Chalice @ 1 is significant threat. (Chalice @ 0 seems like the bigger problem, but an otherwise-dead Veil of Summer turns that off). I wanted my Chalice answers to not be 0 cmc or 1 cmc. That means Chain needs to occupy a different slot, on top of other bounce slots that can answer Chalice (e.g. Borrower, Echoing Truth, Repeal, Consign // Oblivion). There just wasn't room in the 75. One card I did consider for the SB was Hurkyl's Recall. It satisfies both modes: 2 cmc Chalice answer & multi-bounce your 0s. I ended up cutting it because it's too narrow an answer. The other bounce spells can also answer Marit Lage, Deafening Silence, Collector Ouphe, Narset, Parter of Veils, Karn, the Great Creator and other cards that just have you dead if not removed. Hurkyl was too cute.

    Final Fortune would be better in a different storm deck that doesn't have so many pass-the-turn lines with Galvanic Relay or Empty the Warrens. Seems dangerous here.

    Scepter could protect cards from LED. For example you could EOT hide a card, then untap and crack LED, then return the card to hand and cast it with LED mana. Or you can LED+Echo and hide 1 card under Scepter for next turn. It could also protect a card from Song discard if you fizzle and have to pass the turn. I think those modes are even more useful than with Gamble (because you usually want the card you tutor the most, and hiding some other card reduces the odds of keeping the tutor target). Is there room for Scepter though? Jeweled Amulet is better for helping fix RUG. Maybe it could replace Bauble in the lists with more 0s. Scepter seems like a card that's just not good enough to make the cut in 60-card Constructed but could shine in EDH.

    The list Bryant Cook tested used Land Grant to fuel Mox Diamond, although not with Dryad Arbor or Pact too. I tried another build with Land Grant earlier. It's probably a few pages back. There are a lot of perks. You get more "0s" and lower land count, which improves Song and Relay. It's a "0" that imprints on Chrome Mox or gets a land for Mox Diamond (the other 0s can't support either). In practice I didn't like revealing information. It lets opponent know how to disrupt you better. Normally I gain some edge being able to pivot different ways with opponent not knowing how to disrupt or what protection to play around. The Land Grant build also cut so low on lands that I couldn't run Brainstorm + fetch. Maybe there's a way to have both. I'm not ready to give up Brainstorm. It's too strong when you're not just goldfishing and have to sculpt your hand to adapt. Anyone not running Brainstorm + fetch should be on Land Grant though.

    All these minor tweaks don't address the main problem though. The engine already works. But as long as Pyroblast and Hydroblast are rampant, it's suboptimal to play Song of Creation over similar Echo combo decks.

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