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Thread: Vedalken Shackles - phasing

  1. #1

    Vedalken Shackles - phasing

    So I used my vedalken shackles on a Nyxbloom Ancient. Someone used teferi -3 to let it phase out. Then my Schackles got destroyed.

    Was pretty confused on my untap when the Ancient phased in! Can I keep it? If not can I still do 3x Mana for just a moment?
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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    Re: Vedalken Shackles - phasing

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    So I used my vedalken shackles on a Nyxbloom Ancient. Someone used teferi -3 to let it phase out. Then my Schackles got destroyed.

    Was pretty confused on my untap when the Ancient phased in! Can I keep it? If not can I still do 3x Mana for just a moment?
    The controller of the permanent is the determining factor of which untap phase a permanent will phase back in on. If you didn't untap Shackles, you maintain control (Shackles is targeting object A, and object A is still object A when it phases in).

    Because your Shackles was destroyed, the creature will phase in on the first half of your untap step, you will then move to the second half of your untap step and untap your permanents [including the creature], then an SBA check will immediately move it to the correct side of battlefield [your opponent's side]. Only then will you enter your upkeep, which will be the very first time you would have priority. The speed of mana is set by priority; without priority, you can't activate mana abilities.

    Always crack down on people who say "things phase back in on upkeep," this is a common occurance.

  3. #3

    Re: Vedalken Shackles - phasing

    I believe in your untap step the creature will phase in directly under its owners control, it doesn't phase-in under your control and then move back to your opponent. SBAs are a set of specific things, maintaining the status of continuous effects isn't an SBA.

    This only matters in case you had something that triggers based on the number of creatures you control (like "When you control 3 or more creatures, transform this"). Under Fox's interpretation this would trigger if the Nyxbloom was your third creature, which I don't think is correct. In terms of the things you were interested in (1. Can I keep the creature forever, 2. Do I briefly get to make a lot of mana) the answers are the same (i.e. No)

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    Re: Vedalken Shackles - phasing

    702.25b [paraphrased] unless gains control until x time in game specifically refers to phase-out perms, we ignore it for the duration of phased-out. Simply put, phased-out permanents don't move across playmats while phased-out.
    702.25d the phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control...

    703.4a and b refer to order of untap step and refer to untaps happening immediately after phasing-in.

    So a phased-out card can't change control and a phasing event can't cause a change in control and the immediate next thing is untapping.

    The creature is going to change control at some point before priority, and it will be given back untapped. Unless there is some buried rule specific to this scenario, SBAs will catch and correct this right creature, wrong controller scenario.

  5. #5

    Re: Vedalken Shackles - phasing

    SBAs will catch and correct this right creature, wrong controller scenario.
    This isn't what SBAs do, "SBA" refers only to a specific list of actions (704.5a-s). There isn't an SBA for "make sure all continuous effects are being applied correctly" because these can be updated continuously through situations where no player has priority

    "Phasing event doesn't cause a change in control" simply means e.g. that if you control magic my guy, and then I phase it out, it doesn't automatically phase back under my control. The rule is just explaining that by itself phasing doesn't "reset" the control of a permanent.

    In OPs example (and my explanation of it) its not the phasing event that's causing a change in control, it's shackles (or specifically the removal of shackles)

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    Re: Vedalken Shackles - phasing

    So the housekeeping on loss of control isn't going to happen on a phased-out permanent. It will happen after it phases in and untaps.

    Without specific instructions from a magic card, you will never get to phase-in a thing you control on not-your untap step. Rectifying who controls what comes later, again this is unless a magic card specifically talks about phased-out creatures changing control.

    There might be some specific rule that deals with this scenario, but otherwise it is going to be dumped into the garbage bin of "SBAs will fix this before players get priority."

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