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Thread: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

  1. #321

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I think you played well here. Forcing 1 drops and 3 drops is exactly what you him to do. The 19 mana source deck drawing lands before the 28 mana source deck is just bad beats. What did you replace the agents with G3? Why did you bring them in G2?
    I brought them in as a gotcha for the Stoneforge Mystics that he was running, and for maybe stifle a fetch if nothing else. I didn't see them at all in game 2 and decided to put them back for game 3. I can't remember off the top of my head what I swapped them for, maybe the leylines? I was hesitant to pull those out as that removed a potential win con with helm, but i think that is what I did anyway. Game 3 I just went back to the original 60.

    Chalice is primarily sided out vs vial & stompy decks. In both cases dark ritual is one of your best cards and the opponent has few relevant 1 drops for chalice to hit. A lot of the same rules apply to Trinisphere, except Trinisphere is also bad vs land based decks.
    This version treats Leyline as a Blood Moon rather than a Emrakul. In a more combo focused version with multiple MD helms you wouldn’t side them out ever. But here if it doesn’t affect the opponent you probably have better cards to bring in.
    I had to read that a few times but I think I get what you are saying (its a tool, not a haymaker). It makes sense. I'll keep practicing, I can see how people are doing well with this deck. It seems just about everything it plays that isn't removal is a must answer. I saw 2 serenities as well, so it will be something to keep in mind for future matchups. Thanks for the feedback!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  2. #322

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Against stoneblade it does make more sense. I would not have gone back to the 60, I would almost always side out karn against delver even if they aren’t running bolt.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I had to read that a few times but I think I get what you are saying (its a tool, not a haymaker). It makes sense. I'll keep practicing, I can see how people are doing well with this deck. It seems just about everything it plays that isn't removal is a must answer. I saw 2 serenities as well, so it will be something to keep in mind for future matchups. Thanks for the feedback!
    Perhaps emrakul was a bad example but you got the gist of it. In this build it is a md prison piece primarily, not a combo piece. A combo piece you would always keep in for consistentcy, but a prison piece you want to aggressively side out when it is not relevant if possible.

    Dark ritual + Ancient tomb is ludicrous amount of mana, and between saga/karn/curse you have 12 1 card comboes to pour all that mana into. The combination of extremely explosive draws and awesome comebacks is addicting imo. But you are trying to resolve 5 mana enchantments in legacy, which is why it isn’t tier 1 or anything.

  3. #323

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Took the same list to the same weekly (at end for reference). I think I played better, still plenty to learn. Took better notes so here it is. Just like last time there were 10 of us but I saw all different decks.

    R1 vs Jeffrey on.... OG Karn TCG build with cloudposts, TKS, Ugins, grim monoliths, etc.
    G1 on the play: I thought he was on mono red prison so I opened with t1 trinisphere. He comes back with a t3 karn and grabs a Lattice from the board. I land a curse of leeches hoping I can ride that one, but he drops his lattice then follows up with a 6 mana ugin from War of the Spark to easily handle the curse before I can deal with Karn.
    SB out: 3 ball, chalice, in: all my creatures.
    G2 on the play, mull to 6: Start with a t0 leyline, then get a turn 2 karn, grabbing the liquimetal coating, which i deploy t3 and keep him off enough cloud posts to do anything and he concedes. I kept this initially for the helm/leyline combo but it ended up working out in other ways.
    G3 on the draw, mulled to 5, he mulled to 6. He has a god hand and gets a turn 1 karn with some sol lands, grim monolith into manifold key. fetches up lattice and I pray he doesn't have another mana source. Next turn he untaps and can't play it (but is able to get a thran dynamo out because why not). I land a curse of leeches t2 and hope that gets me there this time. Spoiler, it doesn't. He has the same ugin to answer it and lock me out with lattice.

    Not much I can do in this one, he's just faster with the artifacts and I couldn't mull into anything faster than what I had. It was basically a race to the Karn in this matchup.
    1-2 / 0-1

    R2 vs Lucas on Green Post.
    G1 On the draw, we both mull to 6. He opens up with a t1 needle on wasteland, so I now know he is on some kind of lands deck. Doesn't matter, I quickly get a karn out and liquimetal coating and eat his only forest which he needed to do things.
    I sided out 3 balls and brought in opposition agent. I left in chalice for all his tutors (maps, reclaimer, crop rot). I feel like i brought in mire in misery but I can't think what i would have taken out. I def left in leylines for the reclaimer, but maybe that was overkill?
    G2 on the draw, he mulls to 6. Bit of a longer game here. T1 he Once Upon a Time's for a 10 mana ulamog. next turn he goes to tutor off an expedition map and i flash in a opposition agent to take his only dark depths (he had 2 posts already so i figured taking one of those wasn't going to do much, and i think he only had one depths in the deck so that was just one less threat to worry about). This also cut him off a fetch he hasn't played yet. While getting in for chip damage, I build the board up to opposition agent, curse of misfortunes, and overwhelming splendor (knowing he was going to exile a couple of things with Ulamog). Unfortunately for him I had a mire in my hand and a backup curse of misfortunes. He leaves the oppo agent and takes the two curses. Next turn i easily deal with ulamog and then redeploy the curse. I chipped down to 6 in the mean time with agent so he was done after that shortly.

    This particular matchup felt pretty good, but it may have just been one off luck. We played another pre-sideboard game for fun and I won fairly quickly again.
    3-2 / 1-1.

    R3 vs Morgan on D&T.
    G1 on the play. I have the choice of a t1 3ball or curse of leeches. I choose leeches and while i think it kinda won me the game, I think 3 ball was the much better play blind. Wound up being a misplay that didn't come back to bite me. He opens with a t1 vial, I let the curse flip next turn. He hard casts SFM to fetch up an equipment after tickign vial to 1. I mire next turn to deal with the SFM and then chalice on 1 while he is tapped out. He concedes showing me the 3 STP he had in his hand.
    SB out Chalice, 3 ball, bringing in the creatures.
    G2 On the draw I mull to 6. Once again i lead off with a t1 leeches. It flips quickly and I follow up with a saga which meets the new white March card form Kamigawa. I end up getting a curse of misfortunes out and get the death's hold/overwhelming splendor out over the next couple turns while the 4/4 lifelinker does work.

    5-2 / 2-1.

    R4 vs Andrew on UR Delver (Or at least, I never saw a delver, but had everything else. DRC, Shredder, Murktide, iteration, etc)
    G1 on the play, we both mull to 6. I open with a chalice on 1 that resolves followed by a saga and he concedes.
    SB nothing. I didn't really think anything would improve upon being taken out.

    G2 on the draw. Ate 2 early wastelands, one on a tomb and one on a saga, before having a karn get forced. Started coming back only to get hit by another wasteland. He lands a murktide which i edict off a lucky topdeck, but the 3/3 DRC just chips away and that's all she wrote.

    SB nothing still.
    G3 on the play. T0 leyline which did a lot of work in here. My t1 retro foundry got forced, then had my Karn get dazed which was a punt on my part. In my hand before I drew it I have Chrome mox, Curse of death's hold, and some other black card (extra leyline maybe) in hand with 4 mana available. My plan was to play the chrome mox to get to 5 mana and be able to hard cast some things. I top deck the karn and get excited and immediately play it out with out getting the mox out first. Eats a daze. Damn. It might have worked out ok in the end. I draw another karn off the top and it gets forced. I eventually stick a chalice on 1 and then next turn I was able to get the curse of death's hold to resolve which kept his board pretty empty. At this point its going to be a game of attrition and be a matter of if I can out draw threats before he draws counters. I use Takenuma to get my Karn back and third time's a charm, he sticks. I go for the helm finish, helm gets forced. He lands a ledger shredder which can't attack for anything yet but can give him some filtering. I may have made another mistake by ticking up karn a couple turns while I kept it away from a ledger shredder range (as he has lots of cantrips) and that stalling may have given him enough time to dig, which I meant to ask but forgot. Anyway I gave him 2 turns to beef up karn a bit and wish for a lattice. Cast the lattice taking myself down to 5, it resolves but he floats mana and bounces it with brazen borrower, casts the borrower to trigger the shredder, gets it up to 1 power with the ability. Then next turn he price of progresses me down to one and hits with the now-1-power-shredder. It was very close in my opinion. I don't know if better play would have actually won, but it felt very winnable either way.

    My worry with waiting on Karn was that he would get attacked and then lattice wouldn't matter. Wishing as early as possible would have put karn down to 1 and if he had a way to connive on my turn, I would have essentially put myself out of the game. So maybe it wasn't the worst play, but with a tight cantripping deck like his, any time I give them makes me uneasy. In hindsight, landing a lattice would have forced him to play 2 spells in response or after floating mana, which he might not have been able to do. After typing/thinking out loud it might have been better to go for it and force him to have it.

    6-4 / 2-2

    Overall I am happy with how I played, given the misplays I think i made above and acknowledged. Still not comfortable pulling the leylines out, but I think in 2 matchups they were needed (post and delver), and the others I didn't have anything better to bring in since all my non-artifacts came in, or nearly all of them did. I will leave this sleeved up but will probably take something ridiculous next time in manaless dredge or nic fit. Gotta keep people on their toes! Mires did well today, and I got to steal some stuff with opposition agent so that was fun. First time doing that.

    4 chome mox
    4 tomb
    3 city
    4 dark rit
    4 saga
    2 urborg
    7 swamp
    2 hagra mauling
    1 takenuma
    4 edict
    3 3ball
    4 leyline otv
    4 chalice
    1 mire in misery
    4 karn
    4 curse of misfortune
    4 standard curse targets
    1 retro foundry


    board
    3 oppo agent
    4 plague engineer
    1 vault of whispers
    1 needle
    1 coating
    1 bridge
    1 helm
    1 lattice
    2 mire in misery
    Last edited by ronco; 06-27-2022 at 09:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  4. #324
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Reeplcheep, are you still playing this?

    Dauthi/Helm seems to have taken over as the dominant black stompy. Can't tell if that's due to better metagame positioning or just lack of Reeplcheep playing Curses lately.

    https://www.mtgo.com/en/mtgo/decklis...#deck_wordy333

    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    6 Swamp
    5 Snow-Covered Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    //Artifacts: 7
    4 Chrome Mox
    0 Chalice of the Void
    3 Helm of Obedience

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Leyline of the Void

    //Planeswalkers: 4
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Spells: 8
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Thoughtseize

    //Creatures: 17
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Rotting Regisaur
    4 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
    1 Tourach, Dread Cantor

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    3 Plague Engineer
    3 Sudden Edict


    Less control, more beatdown and combo.

  5. #325
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    @Reeplcheep: Are you still playing Curses? Have you tried out Black Initiative creatures?

    Example

    //Mana: 28
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    7 Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
    2 Hagra Mauling

    //Prison: 11
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere

    //Control: 8
    4 Sudden Edict
    4 Opposition Agent

    //WinCons: 13
    4 Passageway Seer
    4 Ravenloft Adventurer
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    1 From the Catacombs

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Sarevok's Tome
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Virtue's Ruin
    2 Plague Engineer
    3 Phyrexian Crusader


    Edit:
    The maindeck is already so strong against combo: Leyline, Chalice, 3ball, Karn, Opposition Agent.
    So the MDFC land and SB are geared towards fair creatures. Crusader beats Initiative creatures from both white & red, dodges removal from Delver/UWr/4c, and has favorable combat vs generic 3/3s and 3/4s (1/1 or 1/2 fails to kill 2/2).

    vs White Initiative: +3 Crusader, +2 Plague, +Virtue's Ruin, +Deluge, +Skysovereign, -8 Prison
    vs Red Stompy: +3 Crusader, +2 Plague, +Deluge, +Skysovereign, +Ratchet, +Tome, +Vault, -10 Prison
    vs Elves: +2 Plague, +Deluge, +Ratchet, -4 Leyline
    vs Delver: +3 Crusader, +Helm, -4 Karn (maybe also +2 Plague, +Ratchet, +Vault, -4 fast mana)
    vs D&T: +3 Crusader, +2 Plague, +Virtue's Ruin, +Deluge, +Ratchet, -4 Leyline, -4 other
    vs Storm: +2 Plague, +Ratchet, +Tome, -4 Edict
    Last edited by FTW; 01-03-2023 at 09:11 PM.

  6. #326

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    No I’ve basically quit magic.

    I think other people have tried this

  7. #327
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    This Black Initiative List made the 5-0 dump: https://www.mtgo.com/en/mtgo/decklis...nlyLandsDotCom

    //Mana: 28
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    7 Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Agadeem's Awakening

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Passageway Seer
    4 Vicious Battlerager

    //DauthiHelm: 15
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    3 Helm of Obedience

    //Other Disruption: 5
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Hymn to Tourach

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 The Stone Brain
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Tourach, Dread Cantor
    2 Nemesis Trap


    The list looks cool. But there isn't really any synergy between the Dauthi-Helm engine and the Initiative subgame. Drawing Dauthi-Helm pieces doesn't help win the Initiative. Gaining the Initiative doesn't help assemble Dauthi+Helm, and all the aggro damage is rendered obsolete if you ever hit the 2-card mill kill. A+B combos add more variance to a deck that already has 1-card wincons.

    I wonder if the list would be improved by cutting Dauthi-Helm and doubling down on Initiative. White Initiative uses tech like Evoke elementals for modal tempo/CA. It also uses removal and flicker effects to win the Initiative subgame. Black could do similar tricks while still maintaining good disruption against random decks.


    Possible Build

    //Mana: 29
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Malakir Rebirth
    5 Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
    1 Castle Locthwain

    //Creatures: 22
    2 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Passageway Seer
    4 Vicious Battlerager
    4 Grief
    4 Shriekmaw

    //Spells: 9
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Sudden Edict
    1 From the Catacombs

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Tourach, Dread Cantor


    Shriekmaw is there for the same reason Solitude is so good in White. Removal helps win the Initiative, it has synergy with flicker effects (Malakir Rebirth), and it's a premium target to hit off the dungeon ultimate. This slot could just be maindeck Plague Engineer instead, but Shriekmaw looks promising.

    Most of the creatures have card advantage. Most of the creatures have evasion (Menace, Fear, Shadow, -5 life), which helps win Initiative.

    Malakir Rebirth is tech to double up on ETB triggers and protect from removal, like Touch the Spirit Realm/Ephemerate. Agadeem's Awakening looks too slow to be impactful as a spell. Rebirth's spell side is valuable more often, though entering tapped is a big penalty.

    Edit: It's also possible to make a version with Cavern of Souls on Rogue:
    Dauthi Voidwalker
    Opposition Agent
    Ravenloft Adventurer

  8. #328
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Black Initiative (or WB) looks promising as players run cards like Snuff Out, Unchained Berserker, and Archon of Absolution to beat mono W.

  9. #329
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I'm tempted to buy into initiative of some kind. The price rise of seasoned dungeoneer was staggering, shows that many people must have bought into W stompy. I'm a bit worried WoTC will ban something. I have a history of buying playsets and then having them banned (I'm looking at you Ragavan, who was the most recent one). I suppose the black cards would be less likely to be nerfed?

  10. #330
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    They might just errata the whole mechanic like they did with Companion. These new broken mechanics tend to be short-term cash grabs, then they ban it once they capitalized all their print run.

  11. #331

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I wanted to modify the list Thraben U played recently ( https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-yLbdLoB10qyNprHf_21DQ ) to be closer to Black Initiative Stompy and utilize the Initiative threats that are only available in paper…

    //Mana
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Core
    4 Animate Dead
    4 Reanimate
    3 Grief
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Rotting Regisaur

    //Transformational Sideboard
    4 Entomb
    3 Exhume
    2 Buried Alive
    2 Archon of Cruelty
    2 Atraxa, Grand Unifier
    1 Griselbrand
    1 Shriekmaw

    SIDEBOARD:
    4 Ravenloft Adventurer
    4 Passageway Seer
    3 Opposition Agent
    3 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
    1 Shriekmaw

    The basic premise is to swap the 15 cards listed above for Game 2, thereby invalidating whatever graveyard hate your opponent sides in. Against any deck that plays creatures, the Reanimates and Animate Deads can be utilized to get threats from your opponents yard (that you made them discard with Grief or Thoughtseize or killed with Shriekmaw) even if your own yard is exiled with a Leyline of the Void.

    The things I’m uncertain of…

    1. The slight antisynergy between Buried Alive and Rotting Regisaur. Is the silver bullet aspect of Buried Alive worth playing fewer Regisaur targets? I could easily replace Buried Alive with 2 more Archons. Would it make sense to play some the Collective Brutality or the 4th Opposition Agent, the 4th Shelodred or a couple of Dauthi Voidwalkers in place of Grief or Regisaur? The former could prove clutch vs combo decks. Or perhaps I should find a way to maindeck some Initiative threats to free up room in the board for these anticombo options in the board?

    2. Shriekmaw vs. Snuff Out vs. Shelodred’s Edict vs. Sudden Edict? Each has its own pros and cons. I went with Shriekmaw assuming that the nonblack aspect of Shriekmaw is mostly irrelevant and the ability to reanimate Shriekmaw will come in handy against all the Delver and Initiative decks seeing play.

    3. Are the 4cc Initiative threats so good that they warrant 8 sideboard slots instead of cheaper hate cards like Dauthi Voidwalker, some Plague Engineer or Edicts and the 4th Opposition Agent?

    4. Am I wasting my time trying out Initiative decks? Wizards is just going to ban White Plume Adventurer and call it a day right? They wont neuter the 4cc Initiative threats by banning the Initiative mechanic altogether will they?

    What would you change in the list I posted?

  12. #332

  13. #333
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    The One Ring might push this archetype over the top with card advantage and protection. This shell accelerates to big mana better than the other colors due to Dark Ritual.

    LOTR Helm


    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    7 Swamp
    2 Agadeem's Awakening
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

    //Acceleration: 8
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Creatures: 14
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    3 Opposition Agent
    3 Grief

    //Prison: 8
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Leyline of the Void

    //Big Haymakers: 10
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    3 Helm of Obedience
    3 The One Ring

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 The One Ring
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Plague Engineer
    3 Sudden Edict
    1 Grief
    1 Opposition Agent
    2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse


    Bowmasters and The One Ring in the same deck? Turn 1 Bowmaster traps??
    Last edited by FTW; 07-06-2023 at 03:11 PM.

  14. #334
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Lowling Mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eer_AWA-ywU


    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    11 Swamp
    4 Urza's Saga

    //Acceleration: 8
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Chrome Mox
    1 Lotus Petal

    //Creatures: 16
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Combo: 8
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Helm of Obedience

    //Other Spells: 4
    4 Thoughtseize

    //Other Artifacts: 4
    1 Basilisk Collar
    3 Howling Mine

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Sudden Edict
    2 Sheoldred's Edict
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


    Howling Mine is funny with Bowmasters and Sheoldred.

    Basilisk Collar on Bowmasters leads to deathtouch pinging.

    Thraben U brings up the valid point that now monoblack finally has enough playables that the Helm combo doesn't necessarily need to be the main focus at 15 slots. It could be cut back significantly to make room for other playables like Grief scamming. I found that tension in my above decklist: it really wants 4 Opposition Agent + 4 Grief + 2 Sheoldred main, but there isn't space. Maybe the combo slots can finally be trimmed.

    If trimming combo slots, I'd trim the Helms before Karns. Helm is the worst card on its own. Karn can do a lot on its own. Karn consumes more mana and tempo, but it's the least bad on its own if you get disrupted or draw poorly. Leyline is the next worst draw, but at least it pitches to Mox and Grief and hates on many top decks. The one nice thing about trimming Karn is gaining a lot of SB space to devote to fair creature removal.
    Last edited by FTW; 07-06-2023 at 04:38 PM.

  15. #335

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I don't have anything to add here but I am loving the new brews you are sharing. Just wanted to let you know you aren't posting into the void (walker) lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  16. #336
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I don't have anything to add here but I am loving the new brews you are sharing. Just wanted to let you know you aren't posting into the void (walker) lol.
    Thanks for the positive feedback!

  17. #337

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    [QUOTE=FTW;1104716]Lowling Mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eer_AWA-ywU


    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    11 Swamp
    4 Urza's Saga

    //Acceleration: 8
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Chrome Mox
    1 Lotus Petal

    //Creatures: 16
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Combo: 8
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Helm of Obedience

    //Other Spells: 4
    4 Thoughtseize

    //Other Artifacts: 4
    1 Basilisk Collar
    3 The One Ring

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Sudden Edict
    2 Sheoldred's Edict
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


    The video did a great job showing that Howling Mine is too cute by half but the deck is otherwise solid. So I made one small change, I swapped The One Ring into the Howling Mine slots.

    B Collar is awesome against aggro but meh against combo and control decks. I wonder if the deck should have another 1c Saga Target, one thats good against combo or control.

    Control is this decks achielles heel as control has the tools to answer or prevent your turn one play and once you’re out of gas, you’re in grind mode and they will quickly outpace you. Even a Relic of Progenitus is better for the card draw alone. But Retrofitter and that new one a bunch of saga decks are playing also work. I feel like the deck is pretty close to perfect otherwise.

  18. #338
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Yeah overall it looks like the archetype has legs. Monoblack finally has enough fair playables.

    The worst cards in his build are the Howling Mines, Basilisk Collar, and the 1 Lotus Petal (probably better as Mox for permanent mana source). Cut the Mines and it looks more playable.

    Nihil Spellbomb is a good value Saga target. Worst case it cycles. Decks that run Relic would play Spellbomb if they had 11 swamps.

    I'd try to squeeze in room for a couple Griefs if you can. The discard and 2-for-1 should improve combo and control matchups, while Thoughtseize is pretty bad against control unless using it specifically to protect a fast Helm combo.

    I wonder in maindeck Chalice would punish more control & combo than maindeck Thoughtseize does. Thoughtseize was primarily to protect the HelmLine combo, but as that gets cut down in favor of fair threats, the need for 1-mana discard also goes down.

    Edit: What if you build in Anvil of Bogardan+Chains of Mephistopheles as the combo instead of HelmLine? These pieces synergize better with the Bowmasters cheesiness and occupy a better spot on the mana curve, allowing you to play fewer Sol Lands and more black sources.

    CantripHate.dec


    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    7 Swamp
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
    4 Agadeem's Awakening

    //Acceleration: 8
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Creatures: 19
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Grief
    3 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Other Permanents: 12
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Anvil of Bogardan
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    3 The One Ring

    //Other Spells: 1
    1 From the Catacombs

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Helm of Obedience
    1 The One Ring
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Sheoldred's Edict
    2 Ratchet Bomb


    The One Ring, Agadeem's Awakening, and From the Catacombs should really improve the grinding ability of the deck.

    Anvil helps refuel if the first wave is shut down and then combos with Bowmasters, Sheoldred, or Chains. Chains hates on the draw in control and combo decks, then locks out the lategame with Anvil. From the Catacombs doubles as a lifeline if you accidentally Chains+Anvil lock both players: you can Escape it with the milled cards, return a milled creature, and win with Initiative!

    I have no idea if the Anvil+Chains thing is good enough. In matchups where its bad you can board into Helm-Line or fair interactions.

    Otherwise maybe you don't durdle with Anvils and just play fair threats with a trimmed down Helm-Line.

    LessCheese.dec

    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6 Swamp
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
    4 Agadeem's Awakening

    //Acceleration: 8
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Creatures: 20
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    3 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Grief
    3 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
    2 Shriekmaw

    //Other Permanents: 12
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    3 The One Ring
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Sheoldred's Edict


    This version aims to minimize maindeck draws that "do nothing" (Helm, land, Howling Mine, conditional Saga target).

    This maindeck should be better against combo: Chalice, Karn, Grief, Oppo Agent.
    The One Ring adds more protection and gas against combo and control.
    Slowrolling the 2-for-1 creatures should add a lot of value against control, then you get to bring them back from the grave for more value. Maybe that will help grind.
    Last edited by FTW; 07-10-2023 at 09:43 PM.

  19. #339
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    Feb 2014
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    1,198

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I wouldn't go anvil+chains, but if you do, from the catacombs sounds bad: not good without lock, and requires 5 manas to do something, while you can't build mana under lock.

    I would rather play darkblast: dredge is a replacement effect, so you can keep "drawing" any card of your deck by discarding darkblast. It also kills opposing orcs, who are a beating if you want to play anvil, and a few other things.

    But ideally, none of those cards :)

  20. #340

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I think its time this deck adopted the Grief/Reanimate/Troll/Rotting Regisaur package.

    It dodges a ton of the hate that hits the Karn/Helm/Anvil/Chains/Chalice packages.


    //Lands: 18
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Swamp
    4 Agadeem's Awakening
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

    //Acceleration: 7
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Creatures: 25
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Opposition Agent
    4 Grief
    3 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
    3 Troll of Khazad
    2 Dauthi Voidwalker
    2 Rotting Regisaur
    2 Shriekmaw
    1 Plague Engineer

    //Other: 10
    4 Reanimate
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 The One Ring
    1 Trinisphere

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