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Thread: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

  1. #221
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Shelled out for my first paper legacy deck.
    You're a terrible person for putting this together; also congratulations!

    Now you'll need to start your maybe-box. Begin with Yixlid Jailer

  2. #222

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I was 2nd in the challenge for a bit, but the wheels fell off the bus and I didn't make top 8. I was experimenting with trimming top end for more lands, seems decent in a tempo metagame.

    May 16 Challenge.
    Moon Stompy WW
    UW Humans WW
    Elves WW
    Eldrazipost WW
    Snowko 2 Electric Boogaloo WLW
    GW Depths LL
    BUGR Control LL

    Deck has legs.

  3. #223

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)


  4. #224

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    In the list above I was hedging hard for delver but didn’t play it once. I was experimenting cutting fools wisdom for lands but there have been a few situations where I wished I had the lifegain, sylvan answer, or additional threat. Conversely, it’s hard to identify where the grids or lands were game changing. One particular game in leagues vs delver the lack of it allowed my opponent to dig to enough bolts to burn me out.

    I am mostly losing to forces and wasteland, and daze and enchantment hateare also problematic but I see them less.

    Perhaps I should change The flexes from 4 Hagra 3 brutality 2 grid 9th swamp to 4 hagra 2 brutality 2 pelakka 4th 3ball 1 fools wisdom.

    Better B count, more lands, more threats, more generically strong cards but slower and weaker to daze.

    Edit: if I cut grids I would go back up to 4 3ball to help the lack of t1 plays.

  5. #225
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    4x Grief? It's black Stompy's TKS that can also Unmask opponent when you need to stop combo or force through a lock piece.

    T1 Unmask + Chalice @ 1/3ball must crush Delver. If you're OTD they can't even Daze or Pierce the Unmask, only Force it. If it resolves you know if the coast is clear for Chalice/Sphere instead of having to trade them with counters.

    Looking at your list, you cut all the answers to Marit Lage so no wonder you got crushed by GW Depths. Despite all those adjustments for Delver it's still a bad matchup?

  6. #226

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    4x Grief? It's black Stompy's TKS that can also Unmask opponent when you need to stop combo or force through a lock piece.

    T1 Unmask + Chalice @ 1/3ball must crush Delver. If you're OTD they can't even Daze or Pierce the Unmask, only Force it. If it resolves you know if the coast is clear for Chalice/Sphere instead of having to trade them with counters.

    Looking at your list, you cut all the answers to Marit Lage so no wonder you got crushed by GW Depths. Despite all those adjustments for Delver it's still a bad matchup?
    It’s actually the maverick parts of gw depths plus mox diamond that beat me this time (t1 Teeg, t2 knight etc). I wasn’t seeing depths much and plague reaver has been outstanding at cheesing people who side out removal, so I wasn’t running sac effects.

    When I tried unmask it was pretty crappy in this deck. However the better hard cast mode is definitely very interesting in my deck, which always wants mana sinks. I can’t abuse it with reanimate easily. Additionally itwill definitely stretch my black count and could be too much card disadvantage. But this deck really wants more pitch cards and mana sinks: it could very well be better than brutality.


    They did improve delver to even, but were pretty crappy in other matchup, and wasn’t always better as my example was trying to show. Is 50% delver 55% everything else a better or worse matchup spread than 45% delver 65 % everything else?

  7. #227

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    4x Grief? It's black Stompy's TKS that can also Unmask opponent when you need to stop combo or force through a lock piece.

    T1 Unmask + Chalice @ 1/3ball must crush Delver. If you're OTD they can't even Daze or Pierce the Unmask, only Force it.
    On the grief idea I do think it has promise on further reflection. Being able to pitch extra curses to chrome mox is strong in this deck. I do think you would have to pay retail a lot of the time but that might be fine. You also would need to max out on black cards to support 8 pitch cards.

    ———————
    Lots of media attention last week, I guess due to the top 16.

    Deck guide by rich Cali (questionable sideboard guide)

    4-1 on much abrew by SPBKASO (quite a few painful punts tho)

    Shoutouts on the everyday eternal and eternal glory podcast.

    ————————

    Went 4-3 in the challenge. Resurgence of rug and bug midrange was annoying to deal with since it’s hard to know what to play around. I got burnt out from 11 after stabilizing once, another was playing daze with taiga and basics
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 05-25-2021 at 01:26 PM.

  8. #228

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Unless an oko level planeswalker is printed again, this is a 4 of in our flex removal slot.

    Marit lage and delver are the scariest threats for this deck. It deals with both nicely.



    4 chalice, 4 3ball, 4 this, 4 hagra mauling is a insane amount of delver hate that should bring that matchup up to even.

    edit: the split second edict i mean
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 05-29-2021 at 07:56 PM.

  9. #229

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    There has been a lot of talk of flex slots to beat the meta. I think I will summarize everything so I can think about it/discuss it more clearly.

    Curses core:

    4 Chalice
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Leyline of the Void

    If you aren’t playing these cards, why are you playing black stompy?

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    8 Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Chrome mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    Standard stompy manabase.

    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    1 Curse of Death’s Hold
    1 Cruel Reality
    1 Overwhelming Splendor

    Expensive win the game cards that make curses curses.

    That leaves 10 flex cards to adjust to the meta.

    My Oko era flex:

    4 Pelakka Predation
    4 Eliminate
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Curse of Fools Wisdom

    Maximized answers to oko, while having smoothing and outs vs klothys.

    Post banning flex:

    3 Brutality
    2 Defense Grid
    4 Hagra’s Mauling
    1 Curse of Fools Wisdom

    Flexible but weak cards with a bit of a focus on delver. With further play grid seemed very good vs delver.

    Post MH2 flex? I expect monkey delver to be insane, with endurance elves and grief gaak to be the next best decks.

    4 Sudden Edict
    4 Hagra’s Mauling
    2 Defense Grid

    So the above is the most hateful deck I could come up vs delver. Uncounterable removal seems great at punishing them for letting our lock pieces resolve, and makes it easier to interact on t1 without getting dazed. Cut fools wisdom to lower curve, and Hagra’s is answers to follow up creatures of wasteland.

    Thoughts? Does edict make grid unnecessary? Is edict not actually that good?

    ————
    TheEnduringIdealist is actually streaming this deck semi-regularly on Twitch. Check him out if you want to see more of the deck.

  10. #230
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Forgot to reply to this earlier.

    Congrats on 12th!

    What decks did you face? What were your losses? How did the flex slots chosen line up against the blue-heavy meta? Was Edict good against them or did they just sac extra X/1s? Did you ever wish Edict was Collective Brutality?

  11. #231

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    List from the challenge is here:. It is exactly what I said above.

    ————
    Mini TR:

    M1: Affinity WLW
    Breakout deck of the event. Although strong vs blue, they have no answers to a t1 curse (g1) or t1 karn (g3).

    M2: UR Delver LL
    Undazeable removal is nice but I don’t think I took advantage of it enough to protect my sol lands. My mana sequencing needs to be updated.

    M3: UW Mentor LWW
    Usually this is where I would bemoan the lack of brutality. But Sudden Edict was absolute gas, killing mentors before they could make tokens 2 different times.

    M4: UR Delver LL
    Cutting fools wisdom lost me g2. I had locked them out but without lifegain they had enough time to cantrip for burn.

    M5: RUG Delver WLW.
    Drew oodles of removal, full 4 edicts felt great. I think g3 was a plague reaver kill.

    M6: GWr Depths WW
    Sudden edict over brutality turns this matchup from unwinnable to decent. TBF triumph would have been just as good here, but triumph is less justifiable in other matchups.

    M7: Goblins WW
    Opponent had very fast lackey -> muxus hands, but t2 curse otp and t1 curse OTD Easily stabilize vs the 8 goblins he dumps on the battlefield.

    Overall list felt sweet. Edicts makes depths a lot better and delver a decent bit better, which are my worst matchups. I am still consistently beating everything else. Hagra’s mauling was quite good in all three modes vs delver compared to predation. In other testing it only felt worse than brutality vs GSZ decks, burn, or storm, which are generally good matchups. All the broken new cards have mostly replaced y. Pyro, so I haven’t missed brutality there. think I will cut a grid to fit the fools wisdom back in; the lifegain could have got me a top 8 instead of out on breakers.

    In leagues I got a sweet kill on griselbrand when they gave me priority before drawing. The targeting downside vs triumph did come up once (vs bug with leovold)
    ————
    Well done tomjab on the 5-0 last week

  12. #232
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    M2: UR Delver LL
    Undazeable removal is nice but I don’t think I took advantage of it enough to protect my sol lands. My mana sequencing needs to be updated.
    How have you been sequencing that loses to Daze?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    M3: UW Mentor LWW
    Usually this is where I would bemoan the lack of brutality. But Sudden Edict was absolute gas, killing mentors before they could make tokens 2 different times.
    Sounds like a critical error from the opponent, casting a naked Mentor without making tokens. Was this because Chalice or 3Sphere stopped them from casting more spells that turn? Overeager Mentor windmill slam on 3 mana? Or were they holding up spells to make tokens at instant speed and burned by split second? Edict should fail miserably vs Mentor normally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    M4: UR Delver LL
    Cutting fools wisdom lost me g2. I had locked them out but without lifegain they had enough time to cantrip for burn.
    Should be easy to cut either 1 Grid or 1 Edict to make room. Given the popularity of UR Delver and Uro decks in this week's Challenges, do you think you need Grid more than the 4th Edict? Does the Depths match get much worse with only 3 Edicts?


    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    M7: Goblins WW
    Opponent had very fast lackey -> muxus hands, but t2 curse otp and t1 curse OTD Easily stabilize vs the 8 goblins he dumps on the battlefield.
    Being able to stabilize against T2 Muxus just shows how strong Dark Ritual is in your deck, for anyone questioning playing Ritual in a Chalice deck.

  13. #233

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    How have you been sequencing that loses to Daze?
    Not to daze, to wasteland. I think I autoplayed tomb plus mox to kill delver like it was a normal 2 cmc removal (exposing myself to wasteland) instead of playing swamp plus mox.

    Edit: I had a curse and city in hand, so it was not completely unreasonable to go faster in a vacuum but probably still bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Sounds like a critical error from the opponent, casting a naked Mentor without being able to make tokens. Was this because Chalice or 3Sphere stopped them from casting more spells that turn? Overeager Mentor windmill slam on 3 mana? Or were they holding up spells to make tokens at instant speed and burned by split second? Edict should fail miserably vs Mentor normally.
    Chalice was in play, and they had used a ancestral knowledge 2 turns previously to hit land drops. They had 5 lands but one was an I cracked fetch. It’s likely the only castable cards less than 3 cmc were countermagic. Anyways the fact it makes their sequencing awkward is still an advantage even if they play around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Should be easy to cut either 1 Grid or 1 Edict to make room. Given the popularity of UR Delver and Uro decks in this week's Challenges, do you think you need Grid more than the 4th Edict? Does the Depths match get much worse with only 3 Edicts?
    I’m not sure. All things being equal I prefer a card that pitches to mox, top decks better, and that I don’t need to side out vs non-blue. Having 2 edicts in my hand g1 made it basically impossible to lose vs depths, but that deck doesn’t see a ton of play anymore. However grid is easier to play on t1 and gives you more nut hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Being able to stabilize against T2 Muxus just shows how strong Dark Ritual is in your deck, for anyone questioning playing Ritual in a Chalice deck.
    Sol lands plus dark ritual is a drug I just can’t quit. And part of the reason I have such better non-blue control/midrange matchups than most other stompy decks.

  14. #234

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    With how absurd Urza’s saga is in non-colour intensive decks, should I be playing it?

    Pros:
    Uncounterable threats help a ton vs the pile of forces deck.
    Large ground blockers.
    I am running a minimum of 13 artifacts plus 4 karn so the tokens will usually be of a decent size.
    I could easily run 3 vault of whispers if I wanted to.
    It could justify a mox opal which I have considered in the past as chrome mox #5
    Hagra’s mauling allows me to support more colourless lands than normal.
    Increases threat density.

    Cons:
    I don’t have as many artifacts as affinity
    Losing a land is a very large cost in a high curve deck.
    Huge anti-synergy with city of Traitors.
    It will increase me susceptibility to wasteland and possibly null rod/Ouphe/force of Vigor.

    If I do play it what role is it serving and what card does it replace?
    Is it a fragile land with massive upside (city traitors)? Is it a utility land (urborg)? Is it a fuck counter spells card (grid)? Is it a “Hope the opponent sided out plow” card (reaver)?

  15. #235
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I think Saga is not worth it.

    1) You don't have any good targets to tutor, maybe a Mox. If you sacrifice a land to tutor for Mox Opal in a monoblack deck, this is worse than just playing Swamp.
    2) You have much lower artifact count than the decks abusing it, so the creatures might only be 3/3s. Since you're a creatureless deck whose win condition isn't combat damage, making 3/3s doesn't necessarily help you win, and it turns on their dead removal.
    3) It taps for 1 instead of B or 2
    4) It's not a permanent mana source

    The last 2 are the main reasons not to play it just for marginal value. Near the start of the development, there was more discussion about optimizing the manabase. I remember you saying some cards were hard to support due to lack of black mana or vulnerability to manabase attacks. You need both acceleration and consistent black mana. Land drops that don't tap for 2 or B slow down the main plan too much. Running Vault of Whispers over Swamp would also impair your mana for the main stompy plan.

    I think the Saga decks are going to force people to run a lot of artifact hate. Decks that aren't going completely degenerate with artifacts will get punished for running random artifact lands. For example, if UR Delver uses Meltdown now instead of Abrade to answer Chalice @ 1, Vault of Whispers means you're just sacrificing a land for no reason.

  16. #236

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Good points overall. Losing to the fow fow library is frustrating but less so than losing to your own manabase.

  17. #237

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Getting a mox opal might be worse than a swamp, but getting an uncounterable meekstone vs delver...

  18. #238

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Played a list with 4 edict, 0 saga, 1 fools wisdom as above (cutting grid). Wnet 4-2 for 9/64 in challenge today.
    Mini TR:
    9th on breakers in today's challenge. Some of the wins feel dominant and the losses feel close; curses feels pretty good. Sudden edict is sweet.
    D&T WW
    GWr Depths WW
    $T4X LWW
    UR Delver WLL
    Super-Sweet Madness brew LL
    Bant Control WW

    Edit:List posted.
    As discussed above, ended up cutting 2nd grid for fools wisdom as it delver was getting hated out. Although powerful, I did not end up trying Urza’s saga due to the manabase issues it might cause.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; Yesterday at 09:23 AM.

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