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Thread: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

  1. #201

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    From Twitter: Helm is strong and steals lots of games. But it can't be pitched to mox and 25% of the time does nothing. Liliana TLH has her own problems, but I 5-0'd with a list based around her. It should lose to itself less at the cost of a lower ceiling. Not sure what approach is best.

    Grid plus helm lists had the most nut draws but also lost to themselves a lot (little removal, high curve, poor black count). I tried a list focused around not losing to itself, ran into a bunch of mildly favourable matchups and got a 5-0.
    List


    Matchups


    • Liliana
    • improves the floor of the deck by being a wincon you can play t1 before your chalice, making dark ritual always great t1 acceleration.
    • Also black for chrome mox.
    • Needs to be protected
    • Needs BB

    • Triumph
    • Collective brutality is a more flexible card than triumph, but I need hard creature removal to complement and protect Liliana.
    • Bonus 2 for 1 is nice.
    • Deck is very soft to marit lage so extra help there is nice

    • Hagra’s Mauling
    • Extra hard removal
    • A land drop when needed or dead.
    • Fast smoothing
    • Pitches to mox
    • Worse land than silent clearing
    • Worse spell than murderous rider.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 04-14-2021 at 09:58 AM. Reason: Never add pictures correctly on my first try

  2. #202

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    The various flex slot options that I can’t decide between: (remaining 53/60 core cards identical as per list above)

    Most nut draws, but terrible mana:
    2 Helm
    3 brutality
    2 grid

    A bit of everything but has trouble vs big creatures.
    2 helm
    3 brutality
    1 Lily
    4th 3ball

    The above with the best fair game and mana but slow and many dead cards vs creatureless decks:
    3 triumph
    2 mauling
    2 Liliana

    Go big with max smoothing, slow, poor black count and little removal:
    2 Brutality
    2 Castle Lochwain
    2 Helm
    4th 3ball

    I have tried most of the above and they all feel great or awe full in different situations.

  3. #203

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Got another 5-0 with lilianas plus triumph and another with helm plus grid. Still not sure what is the best approach.

  4. #204
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    This is tough to evaluate because it could be meta-dependant.

    Defense Grid is going to be bad when you see a lot of nonblue decks and better against fair blue. The 4th 3ball will be better against unfair decks. Grid may be better in the Challenge than it is in random Leagues, but you also don't get as many opportunities to test that out.

    Your Liliana package will do best against fair creature decks, especially ones with mana denial (D&T, Goblins, UR Delver) where you can benefit from the smoother mana. It'll be worse than Helm against creature-light decks and unfair decks. It probably reduces your variance but you need a lot more than the 5 games in a League to really see the difference. Many games you won't draw any of those 7 cards so you'd need more games to notice.

    As you said, they're probably great or awful in different situations. Instead of just looking at your record in a league (random matchups), I would start tracking results against different archetypes across multiple leagues. Which tier decks is the Helm-Grid build >50% against? Which tier decks is the Lili build >50% against?

  5. #205

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    This is tough to evaluate because it could be meta-dependant.

    Defense Grid is going to be bad when you see a lot of nonblue decks and better against fair blue. The 4th 3ball will be better against unfair decks. Grid may be better in the Challenge than it is in random Leagues, but you also don't get as many opportunities to test that out.

    Your Liliana package will do best against fair creature decks, especially ones with mana denial (D&T, Goblins, UR Delver) where you can benefit from the smoother mana. It'll be worse than Helm against creature-light decks and unfair decks. It probably reduces your variance but you need a lot more than the 5 games in a League to really see the difference. Many games you won't draw any of those 7 cards so you'd need more games to notice.

    As you said, they're probably great or awful in different situations. Instead of just looking at your record in a league (random matchups), I would start tracking results against different archetypes across multiple leagues. Which tier decks is the Helm-Grid build >50% against? Which tier decks is the Lili build >50% against?
    That probably requires at least 50 matches with each deck, but is the more structured approach. T1 grid through daze is my best possible start vs delver & fow combo, but t1 lily is great vs vial and control. The amount of times i don't have BB or they don't care about lily is probably about the same I don't have leyline in top quarter of my deck or I need to pitch something to mox.

  6. #206
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    That probably requires at least 50 matches with each deck, but is the more structured approach. T1 grid through daze is my best possible start vs delver & fow combo, but t1 lily is great vs vial and control. The amount of times i don't have BB or they don't care about lily is probably about the same I don't have leyline in top quarter of my deck or I need to pitch something to mox.
    Then it sounds pretty close between the two. You'd know best from your games.

    To take it any steps further, you may need to just track a large number of games and check your results against the top decks. That's what AnziD and some other competitive streamers do. If you already know what the better matchups are for each build then maybe you just pick between the two based on the expected metagame at the time. The Legacy subreddit has metagame predictions for the weekly Challenges.

  7. #207

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Updated card discussion part of primer with the cards that were most made viable with the labe/oko bannings (plague reaver/Liliana’s triumph/Liliana the last hope/Defense grid etc.)

  8. #208

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/statu...33994239320064

    Got a 5-0 with the anti delver choices; mus and screenshots in twitter above. With oko gone and ur delver everywhere grid has performed well. However pelakka and grid didn’t play well together. So the list became 3 brutality 2 helm 2 grid 4 Hager’s mauling. Mauling ended up being ok in the list. BB is annoying but the list has a ton of removal and early powerful plays against blue decks.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 05-06-2021 at 02:28 PM.

  9. #209

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Any consideration for Baleful Mastery in the flex slot over the Hagra Mauling/Eliminate? Only 1 black pip and good vs Marit Lage/walkers at the cost of not being land in a pinch.

  10. #210

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by hax0rm4n View Post
    Any consideration for Baleful Mastery in the flex slot over the Hagra Mauling/Eliminate? Only 1 black pip and good vs Marit Lage/walkers at the cost of not being land in a pinch.
    Hagra is a land 60 % of the time... I would only replace it with silent clearing/ifnir dead lands/pelakka predation.

    Baleful mastery compared to pure removal:

    Brutality is way better vs control and combo, and eliminate is so much better if you don’t need to deal with jtms or lage. Soul Shatter is much better if you need to kill JTMS and lage reliably. It only seems good if you are seeing tons of Lage AND uro, but I’m not too scared of uro in my leyline plus chalice deck.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 05-06-2021 at 02:26 PM.

  11. #211

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Really interested in trying this deck. Any tips for playing it?

  12. #212

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FistaCuffSmith View Post
    Really interested in trying this deck. Any tips for playing it?
    I have comments on the play with particular cards in the primer on the first page or in my costreams with ThrabenU. I also discuss particular matchups.

    I guess some of the simplest advice:

    The deck is filled with Hate cards for each matchup, but other cards will be dead. Get good at guessing the opponents archetype quickly and determining the best course of action. If you keep a hand with t1 rit 3 ball, but op leads on plains pass, you need to completely change your approach. Now you want to keep dark ritual since all that matters is resolving a payoff through D&Ts mana denial, don’t even cast your artifacts.

    The deck is incredibly mana hungry. Blowing a city of traitors early is much worse than in red stompy.

    The deck is built so that you don’t need all your curse targets. You should usually be ok to pitch them if you draw them.

    Make sure you don’t need leyline for chrome mox before you put in in the blind.

    Remember to play your tap land before your city of traitors.

    A big strength of this deck is that you can side out all your lock artifacts when they are bad. Remember to do so.

  13. #213

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Went 4-3 in the challenge for 29/76.

    I beat both of my hardest matchups (GW depths and RUG delver). In my losses I can point to several mistakes in the matches in hindsight. Overall I think the build is solid in the current meta and I just need to tighten my piloting. I bought the deck in paper ($$$ cities ugh) and hope to play webcam games soon.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 05-13-2021 at 12:40 PM.

  14. #214

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Would you consider putting the 4th Trinisphere in the sideboard as a Karn target? I could imagine cutting the Vault since we have more mana available now with Hagra Mauling

  15. #215

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by tillcor View Post
    Would you consider putting the 4th Trinisphere in the sideboard as a Karn target? I could imagine cutting the Vault since we have more mana available now with Hagra Mauling
    I want my karn targets to do things the maindeck doesn’t do to take advantage of the tutor aspect. I think I’d rather just cut the 2nd grid for 3 ball #4 MD if you want more 3 balls...

    Additionally you often aren’t casting your karn target until t3, which is pretty late for trinisphere.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 05-14-2021 at 10:13 AM.

  16. #216

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Shelled out for my first paper legacy deck.

  17. #217
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Nice! WB Grids and Bridge hurt my soul a little bit, but at least they don't have terrible art.

    The list of cards I am missing to make this in paper are rather embarrassing cards (besides the Opposition Agents). Just haven't been playing enough to order things from the newer sets right now.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  18. #218

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Nice! WB Grids and Bridge hurt my soul a little bit, but at least they don't have terrible art.

    The list of cards I am missing to make this in paper are rather embarrassing cards (besides the Opposition Agents). Just haven't been playing enough to order things from the newer sets right now.
    My art choices are a bit weird because I wanted to prioritize purchasing from locals or content creators (you can see mtgtheepicstorms views on karn on the mox)

    I’ll probably pimp it out a bit once I recover from realizing I spent over 1000$ on 4 pieces of cardboard. I love the masterpiece trinisphere.

  19. #219
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    My art choices are a bit weird because I wanted to prioritize purchasing from locals or content creators (you can see mtgtheepicstorms views on karn on the mox)

    I’ll probably pimp it out a bit once I recover from realizing I spent over 1000$ on 4 pieces of cardboard. I love the masterpiece trinisphere.
    Yeah, the prices are frightening nowadays. If I didn't have what is now the expensive stuff from long ago, I'd certainly be out.

    But I agree, the Masterpieces are some really fantastic art, but the boarder bothers me. I like it, I also hate it and I also hate that I like it. I am the same way on foils. Lately though I just can't justify the expenditure on foils though.

    But Opposition Agents are likely a card that will see more play going forward, so eventually I'll get them. The rest of the things I'd need probably total 5 dollars, so I'm certainly not worried there.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  20. #220

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Shelled out for my first paper legacy deck.




    Great!!! Enjoy!!!


    Love the Chrome Mox signature a real "cri du cœur"

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