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Thread: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

  1. #41
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Just came to comment what you had already posted. This card looks like it has a lot of potential giving you a Magus-like hatebear to attack nonaggro strategies along a new angle. The 3/2 body is also a good clock in the matchups where you just need a body (but can't waste a slot in the 75 for a body that can't also fill a hate role). Looking forward to seeing how it performs.

  2. #42

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Yep a Dark Ritual into the 3/2 in response to your opponent cracking a fetch in insane tempo.

    Fear of that might make opponents hesitate to crack fetches even when you have only one mana open.

  3. #43
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Is Court of Ambition any good here, even in the SB against control, or is it just worse than what the Curses already do?

  4. #44

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    After lots of mulling, here is my draft: (with hired blade standing in for opposition agent)


    3 Trinisphere
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    2 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Curse of Death's Hold
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Cruel Reality
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Eliminate
    4 Pelakka Predation
    8 Swamp
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Hired Blade

    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Soul Shatter
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    4 Plague Engineer
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Torpor Orb


    So reasons behind the card choices:
    • Agent is essentially a magus of the moon with a million upsides. It addresses 2 things not covered by other pieces (lands & a+b combo) and is insane vs all our bad mus (rug/snowko/maverick/depths). I believe 4 will be correct.
    • Agent has a very strong dissynergy with urborg so we unfortunately have to cut it.
    • That means we need to cut all the BB spells: rider for shatter, necromentia for torpor orb, and hymn for chains.
    • Having more t1 lockpieces (that can also pressure pw) means that eliminate/spyglass seemed to be best cuts. Since we already have way more 3 cmc lockpieces, the 4th 3ball is way less necessary
    • I considered cutting helms, but every time I went lower than 10 wincons the # of games where I did nothing after locking the OP out goes way up.


    Overall this should help the deck more consistently curve out(t1 must fow disruption, t2 must fow disruption, t3 win the game card). Cons of course is that the deck has significantly fewer oko removal spells. However in my experience removal heavy hands have been traps vs most blue hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Is Court of Ambition any good here, even in the SB against control, or is it just worse than what the Curses already do?
    The deck intentionally tries to ignore the board most of the time, and hopes that wincons are good enough to stabilize or render the board irrelevant through mill. Against control snowko leaves in coatls vs me usually; it seems risky there. Although a good card, it seems to fit a removal heavy monoB deck like Pox or the Gate much better imo. For multi colour black decks Kaya, Ghost Assassin is almost the same card and sees play already in maverick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Yep a Dark Ritual into the 3/2 in response to your opponent cracking a fetch in insane tempo.

    Fear of that might make opponents hesitate to crack fetches even when you have only one mana open.
    The stifle effect is a real thing. If people start respecting t1 swamp go that is really good for me.

  5. #45

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Did mediocrely in last weekends tournaments, went 1-3 in the showcase and 4-3 in anzid mtg's lotus box. However I am getting a 5-0 every week or so. I think I underestimated the amount of blue and lack of combo in large events.

    Interestingly over those two events + the two preceding leagues I went 0-7 vs fair blue and 14-0 vs everything else.

    I thought that plague engineer would be good enough vs RUG & necromentia good enough vs uro.dec that I could run lots of necromentia's for the doomsday players. It appears that they didn't hit hard enough. Necromentia was game winning however vs the 2 doomsday players.

    Any thoughts on something to beat blue durdle? My thoughts are pack rat + volrath stronghold, Dreamstealer, or chains of mephistophles.

    List:

    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Curse of Death's Hold
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Cruel Reality
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Eliminate
    4 Pelakka Predation
    8 Swamp
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Chalice of the Void

    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Torpor Orb
    3 Necromentia
    4 Plague Engineer
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Dystopia

  6. #46

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I felt like I am having lots of trouble beating blue, any advice for sideboarding? I went back through my data for the last week and I am 0-9 vs delver, 0-7 vs UGxx durdle and 27-3 vs everything else. I don't feel like the match-ups were that bad priorily, advice?

    My plan vs delver is to cut karn for karn targets & some drits for plague engineers/riders to be faster & have more removal. Against snowko I cut fast mana for win cons & discard. In the discard slot I have tried many things, dreamstealer actually got a 6 for 1 the last time I played it but that was still not enough. They always have 3-5 fows by turn 6 or so.

    List is basically the same as above with dreamstealers for necro & riders for dystopia.

    I am considering going the nuclear option of cavern of souls & pack rat.

  7. #47

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    My plan vs delver is to cut karn for karn targets & some drits for plague engineers/riders to be faster & have more removal. Against snowko I cut fast mana for win cons & discard. In the discard slot I have tried many things, dreamstealer actually got a 6 for 1 the last time I played it but that was still not enough. They always have 3-5 fows by turn 6 or so.

    I am considering going the nuclear option of cavern of souls & pack rat.
    I wouldn't cut any fast mana vs either deck, the longer the game goes vs. both decks the more likely you r to lose. Especially not vs. Delver where people bring in cards like carpet of flowers.

    Discard is only good vs. Snoreko if you then immediately win. They've got too much card selection and pure ca (if you don't open with leyline) to try to go 1 for 1 with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  8. #48

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I wouldn't cut any fast mana vs either deck, the longer the game goes vs. both decks the more likely you r to lose. Especially not vs. Delver where people bring in cards like carpet of flowers.

    Discard is only good vs. Snoreko if you then immediately win. They've got too much card selection and pure ca (if you don't open with leyline) to try to go 1 for 1 with them.
    By discard I meant hate pieces like chains of mephistophlesor dreamstealer, which are usually 3 for 1s

  9. #49

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    How do you feel about a single Noetic Scales in the sideboard?

    Its a superior Karn target to Ensnaring Bridge in most situations (bouncing the Emrakul, Titan, Ilharg, Progenitus, Rabblemaster or Marit Lage or 3/3 elks to your opponents hand is better than just preventing from attacking temporarily).

    Even bouncing Opposition Agent to your hand after it steals a land so that they cant kill it and you can flash it in again at an opportune time might be worthwhile.

  10. #50

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    How do you feel about a single Noetic Scales in the sideboard?

    Its a superior Karn target to Ensnaring Bridge in most situations (bouncing the Emrakul, Titan, Ilharg, Progenitus, Rabblemaster or Marit Lage or 3/3 elks to your opponents hand is better than just preventing from attacking temporarily).

    Even bouncing Opposition Agent to your hand after it steals a land so that they cant kill it and you can flash it in again at an opportune time might be worthwhile.
    hmm that is a good suggestion. It is better if we can't get empty handed. However it seems very bad vs arcanist, and elves as well as astrolabe elks (now they get an attack in with oko and gives them insane card advantage)

  11. #51
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I felt like I am having lots of trouble beating blue, any advice for sideboarding? I went back through my data for the last week and I am 0-9 vs delver, 0-7 vs UGxx durdle and 27-3 vs everything else. I don't feel like the match-ups were that bad priorily, advice?

    My plan vs delver is to cut karn for karn targets & some drits for plague engineers/riders to be faster & have more removal. Against snowko I cut fast mana for win cons & discard. In the discard slot I have tried many things, dreamstealer actually got a 6 for 1 the last time I played it but that was still not enough. They always have 3-5 fows by turn 6 or so.

    List is basically the same as above with dreamstealers for necro & riders for dystopia.

    I am considering going the nuclear option of cavern of souls & pack rat.
    Overall, T1 Dark Ritual -> Opposition Agent should be your best line vs fair blue.

    Why is fair blue so bad for you? Chalice and 3sphere are good against Xerox. Eliminate answers most of their threats, which are 1-3cc creatures and planeswalkers. How are you doing preboard vs postboard? I wonder if your boarding is actually making the matchup worse. Fast mana is so important to land early lock pieces, which then slows down the counters and card selection that powers the deck. I would cut conditional cards at the top end of the curve, not acceleration. You still need to land early lock pieces.

    The boarding strategy should be to reduce the number of dead draws. Fair blue is inherently very low variance, so you will lose to variance if your hand is clogged with too many uncastable conditional cards (reducing the number of your cards they need to interact with, which helps them win). Maybe cut a Curse and a MD Helm, leave in Karn.

    Necromentia seems bad vs fair blue. Cards like Murderous Rider, Chains of Mephistopheles and Liliana of the Veil seem better. Plague Engineer is also a card that's designed to beat aggro, not fair blue. It's serviceable to replace dead slots vs fair blue if you just need more business, but it shouldn't do anything that powerful. It's one of those slots that you want vs aggro but could also use vs blue, but maybe 4x is overkill if you're leaning on it to help with Delver too.

    What does Dragon Stompy do against fair blue? I think they leave in Karns. Is Thought-Knot Seer any good for you? It's another disruptive business creature. Pelakka Predations might be weak, with both sides costing you valuable tempo.

  12. #52

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    hmm that is a good suggestion. It is better if we can't get empty handed. However it seems very bad vs arcanist, and elves as well as astrolabe elks (now they get an attack in with oko and gives them insane card advantage)
    Its a damn shame they never printed a...
    Hullbreech Artifact 2
    Flash
    Players canít draw cards beyond the first card drawn in draw step.

    Would solve astrolabe issue and fix our issue vs blue xerox

  13. #53

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Its a damn shame they never printed a...
    Hullbreech Artifact 2
    Flash
    Players canít draw cards beyond the first card drawn in draw step.

    Would solve astrolabe issue and fix our issue vs blue xerox
    Uba Mask is close but 4 mana is too much.

    Why is fair blue so bad for you? Chalice and 3sphere are good against Xerox. Eliminate answers most of their threats, which are 1-3cc creatures and planeswalkers. How are you doing preboard vs postboard? I wonder if your boarding is actually making the matchup worse. Fast mana is so important to land early lock pieces, which then slows down the counters and card selection that powers the deck. I would cut conditional cards at the top end of the curve, not acceleration. You still need to land early lock pieces.

    The boarding strategy should be to reduce the number of dead draws. Fair blue is inherently very low variance, so you will lose to variance if your hand is clogged with too many uncastable conditional cards (reducing the number of your cards they need to interact with, which helps them win). Maybe cut a Curse and a MD Helm, leave in Karn.
    I cut karn because it is so bad vs delver, bolt & daze. Vs snowko I leave them in. Agaisnt blue control those hate cards can often be ignored with library & oko. I could definitely be cutting too much fast mana; I will see if my g1 wr is much better.

    Against snowko the plan was not conditional cards but just have too many threats for them to force all of them. Necromentia is better than removal vs uro, but i agree vs builds with more diversified threats it was bad.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 11-15-2020 at 07:33 PM.

  14. #54
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Even if Karn dies in 1 hit, he still tutors Helm or Bridge. Is that good enough? Dying to Bolt after tutoring is a 2-for-1, prevents damage to your face, and is lower-variance than replacing Karns with the Karn targets (you the exact card you want, instead of one at random).

    Is Leyline enough to beat Uro?

    Necromentia just doesn't seem good enough in enough matchups to warrant 3 copies. Maybe cut down to 1-2? You're overkilling combo but don't have enough to fight blue.

    How often is Curse of Death's Hold needed in fair blue matches? Is it enough to just put out Splendour and Cruel Reality? They don't have many bodies. Just looking for ways to cram in more business slots postboard.

  15. #55

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Even if Karn dies in 1 hit, he still tutors Helm or Bridge. Is that good enough? Dying to Bolt after tutoring is a 2-for-1, prevents damage to your face, and is lower-variance than replacing Karns with the Karn targets (you the exact card you want, instead of one at random).

    Is Leyline enough to beat Uro?

    Necromentia just doesn't seem good enough in enough matchups to warrant 3 copies. Maybe cut down to 1-2? You're overkilling combo but don't have enough to fight blue.

    How often is Curse of Death's Hold needed in fair blue matches? Is it enough to just put out Splendour and Cruel Reality? They don't have many bodies. Just looking for ways to cram in more business slots postboard.
    The problem is if they counter the thing you get with a delver on board, they are up 7-9 mana on you.

    You could be correct about uro.

    You are probably correct about necromentia, testing Dreamstealer

    Without curse of deaths hold you lose to oko; cruel reality won't clear the board fast enough against oko unless you have 16+ life

  16. #56
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    The problem is if they counter the thing you get with a delver on board, they are up 7-9 mana on you.
    What's the alternative? Draw a dud like Sorcerous Spyglass 3/4 of the time you wanted Ensnaring Bridge (because you replaced 4 Karn with 4 Karn targets, losing the ability to pick the one you want at the time that you need it)? Yeah you wasted 7 mana, but you did stall 1 turn and take out a counter. If they FoW Curse, they're up 5 mana on you. It's not possible to beat Delver's mana efficiency. They will always be up mana. Stompy decks try to counteract that by running bigger mana and by running 1-sided lock pieces to slow down Delver's mana.

    The other problem is if you cut Karn you are losing 4 maindeck wincons. That leaves you with only 6-7 ways to win the game in the entire deck, and they might counter all of them. Could be a lose-less plan instead of a way to actually lead to a winning state.

    Do you not get to stick Chalice or 3sphere often enough? Resolving either puts a real dent in Delver's efficiency plan. If those are regularly getting answered, maybe you need to board in more lock pieces. Stompy does a lot better when it can play behind some piece of prison. Chains of Mephistopheles? Defense Grid? Ensnaring Bridge? Tangle Wire? Sphere of Resistance? Lodestone Golem? Opposition Agent will be big.
    Last edited by FTW; 11-16-2020 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #57

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Opposition Agent is live thursday. Some thoughts on sideboarding:

    i was going through the meta and agent is gg vs all green decks
    (which are our worst mus: depths/maverick)
    and doomsday
    hits about half the lands in blue & combo
    is meh vs vial
    and blank cardboard vs chalice decks like eldrazi.

    So if we aren't sideboarding out dark ritual vs blue we have essentially no cuts for any matchup except for chalice decks and vial decks. Should I just run 4 plague engineer 4 soul shatter and basically run back my md vs blue & combo then FTW?

  18. #58
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    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    T1 Dark Ritual into Agent or 3sphere seems like the most broken thing you can do against blue decks. Unless they have Force in hand (<45%), you've just made them stumble for their first several turns at least. That gives you the edge you need to try to resolve other business. Boarding out Dark Ritual gives up too many explosive starts, especially on the play. I think you can't afford that. On the draw maybe you could board out Rituals if you think you'll get 2-for-1d by Daze or Spell Pierce, but definitely not on the play.

    Is there anything else at the top end that you could board out for blue?
    Maybe some copies of Pelakka Predation? (vs Delver the spell side has very few targets, and the land side is a ETBT swamp that dies to Wasteland)
    Helms?

    What card stays dead in hand the most often in those matchups? What cards are weakest in the blue matches that you're losing?

    I wonder if you're actually supposed to board out Eliminate, of all cards. It's counterintuitive because Eliminate kills all their threats. But vs Snowko, you're the aggressor and they're the control. They're more likely to win the late game while you're the one running explosive mana and game-winning combos, which makes you the aggro role. You won't beat them by 1-for-1ing either. So even though Eliminate has useful targets, I wonder if you should be trying to overwhelm them with additional win conditions instead of controlling theirs.

    Vs Combo, maybe you only need to board 0-2 slots and run back the main. It sounds like you already obliterate combo.

  19. #59

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Great comments. Note that all the below is taking into account my agent draft list above, which has already cut 2 eliminates, 1 spyglass and a 3ball md.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    T1 Dark Ritual into Agent or 3sphere seems like the most broken thing you can do against blue decks. Unless they have Force in hand (<45%), you've just made them stumble for their first several turns at least. That gives you the edge you need to try to resolve other business. Boarding out Dark Ritual gives up too many explosive starts, especially on the play. I think you can't afford that. On the draw maybe you could board out Rituals if you think you'll get 2-for-1d by Daze or Spell Pierce, but definitely not on the play.

    Is there anything else at the top end that you could board out for blue?
    Maybe some copies of Pelakka Predation? (vs Delver the spell side has very few targets, and the land side is a ETBT swamp that dies to Wasteland)
    Helms?

    What card stays dead in hand the most often in those matchups? What cards are weakest in the blue matches that you're losing?
    One possibly unnoticed thing that makes t1 agent even better than magus of the moon is that agent protects itself from bolt. RUG has 19 lands that can bolt magus, but only 3 lands that can bolt agent.

    The cards that are dead in hand most often vs delver are getting stuck on wincons after getting your first wincon fow'd, then wastelanded, and then you get stuck on lands. The discard on predation is pretty bad but even a tap land is often a better topdeck than a spell vs the wasteland/daze deck.

    So generally vs delver I dislike karns as I said earlier. Its the slowest, most vulnerable and most mana intensive wincon. If you don't like siding in bridge & spyglass I could see just siding in 3 Soul Shatter + a helm as just some extra removal in karn's place. Helm I find is the best wincon since it immediately ends the game and they can't bolt you down.


    I wonder if you're actually supposed to board out Eliminate, of all cards. It's counterintuitive because Eliminate kills all their threats. But vs Snowko, you're the aggressor and they're the control. They're more likely to win the late game while you're the one running explosive mana and game-winning combos, which makes you the aggro role. You won't beat them by 1-for-1ing either. So even though Eliminate has useful targets, I wonder if you should be trying to overwhelm them with additional win conditions instead of controlling theirs.

    Vs Combo, maybe you only need to board 0-2 slots and run back the main. It sounds like you already obliterate combo.
    So currently vs doomsday and depths you have issues because they can ignore trinisphere/chalice, and vs gaak & reanimator everything you have is force of vigor-able, so I like having 1-2 extra non-artifact hate such as necromentia to replace cut eliminates. With agent though all those problems are fixed. I can easily bring in karn targets like helm+spyglass for the 2 eliminates and thus have no dedicated anti-combo cards.

    vs snowko the most dead cards are lategame fast mana, an extra 3ball or multiple eliminates (esp. if they run jace). the 3rd & 4th eliminates + the 4th 3ball have already been cut from the deck. In this mu predations are the best; lets you keep more hands as a mana source but is a relevant topdeck later.

    I could definitely buy that too much removal is bad against snowko. The new list will already have half the eliminates of the orginal list. I like helm as additional threats, & dreamstealer as a 6 for 1 that forces them to have non-counter interaction.

    I mentioned it earlier, but I have a very large amount of cuts(3 3ball 4 chalice 4 agent) vs chalice decks so bringing in everything that has any text. Soul shatter is the preferred removal for stompy since it is the cheapest thing that can hit all of TKS & a Karn & a rabble master.

    Revised Agent board re your comments: (karn=karn package)


    1 Ensnaring Bridge (karn, chalice)
    1 Mycosynth Lattice (karn)
    1 Liquimetal Coating (karn)
    1 Helm of Obedience (snow, combo, karn)
    3 Soul Shatter (delver, chalice)
    1 Dreamstealer (snow, chalice)
    4 Plague Engineer (vial, green, chalice)
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass (vial, karn, chalice)
    1 Vault of Whispers (vial, karn, chalice)
    1 Torpor Orb (combo, vial)

  20. #60

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I love the new sideboard.

    Have you given any thought to adding a single Noetic Scales to the board.

    I think you will be surprised with how often you end up grabbing it with Karn and how often you end up siding it in. Its fantastic against Chalice decks.

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